How come people believe the narrative that the Japanese were the evil guys?

[blacksmith]

The Japanese were not angels, but the thing is that people ignore the complex intertwining of race relations, history, politics and economics before WW2.

From my understanding, the Japanese had no choice to go to war, and the primary reason was White supremacy.

The Japanese might have committed several war crimes at that time, but it seems the war was more than justified.

 

[CriticalThought]

It is hard to say. WWII was in many ways just a big racial war. The US certainly looked the other way when a lot of Jews and Africans died. The Germans thought they were superior to the Japanese even though they were allied and vice versa.

 

[Dittohead not!]

The Japanese people may have had no choice in the matter, but the Japanese government attacked the US in a quest for world domination. That sounds pretty evil to me.

So, we defeated the Japanese government, and are now friends with the Japanese people and their new government.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

The Japanese were not angels, but the thing is that people ignore the complex intertwining of race relations, history, politics and economics before WW2.

From my understanding, the Japanese had no choice to go to war, and the primary reason was White supremacy.

The Japanese might have committed several war crimes at that time, but it seems the war was more than justified.

Well, for starters: Nanking Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I wouldn't say the Japanese citizenry are evil, and the US did do its part to provoke the Japanese, but there is absolutely no doubt that they were the aggressors in World War II. You see, when you have a world war, you tend to believe that the people who started it are responsible for it.

Personally I consider unbridled acts of violence and crimes against humanity to be incredibly evil.

 

[blacksmith]

The Japanese people may have had no choice in the matter, but the Japanese government attacked the US in a quest for world domination. That sounds pretty evil to me.

So, we defeated the Japanese government, and are now friends with the Japanese people and their new government.

A lot of people believe that the Japanese wanted world domination, but it wasn't the case at all.

The Japanese was actually one of the earliest proponents of liberalism and multiculturalism. The reasons why they went to war are multifaceted and is the result of many policy errors from the West, particularly the U.S.

I won't go too much into details--because it would take several paragraphs to explain properly, but Japan, before the war, had an overpopulation problem--this is because the West closed itself off to Japanese immigration due to extreme racism; therefore, they decided to send a lot of Japanese and Korean immigrants to Manchuria, which at the time was controlled by a Manchu warlord--China was at the time divided because the West completely destroyed the social and political structure of the country. The Nationalists who wanted to unify China and didn't recognize Manchuria as a nation, were infuriated by this and decided to commit acts of terrorism against the Japanese in Manchuria. This and for other reasons--the fact that Russia started expanding into East Asia (took a large chunk of the North-East part of Asia, deported the Koreans living there, etc.), they decided to strengthen their grasp on Manchuria, which created a rift between the dominant powers at that time and Japan.

 

[lizzie]

The Japanese were not angels, but the thing is that people ignore the complex intertwining of race relations, history, politics and economics before WW2.

From my understanding, the Japanese had no choice to go to war, and the primary reason was White supremacy.

The Japanese might have committed several war crimes at that time, but it seems the war was more than justified.

I don't believe they were evil. They just made a huge mistake when they attacked our property and our people. My attitude when attacked is one of no mercy.

 

[shrubnose]

The Japanese people may have had no choice in the matter, but the Japanese government attacked the US in a quest for world domination. That sounds pretty evil to me.

So, we defeated the Japanese government, and are now friends with the Japanese people and their new government.

Same thing with Germany and Italy.

Some people (Not me!) might ask why we fought WWII.

To my recollection, for the USA, It all started when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. :roll:

 

[shrubnose]

I don't believe they were evil.

They just made a huge mistake when they attacked our property and our people. My attitude when attacked is one of no mercy.

I agree that not all Japanese people are evil, but some Japanese people did some mighty evil things in connection with WWII and Japan still hasn't taken full responsibility for those crimes to this day. That's a fact. :roll:

 

[lizzie]

I agree that not all Japanese people are evil, but some Japanese people did some mighty evil things in connection with WWII and Japan still hasn't taken full responsibility for those crimes to this day. That's a fact. :roll:

People committing evil acts is certainly nothing new, and certainly not specific to the Japanese.

 

[blacksmith]

I feel like people put too much emphasis on the main events of the war, and not enough on the whole picture. You can't simply point fingers at someone and say "It's his fault". Governments are not people, and they certainly behave differently.

 

[Perotista]

The Japanese were not angels, but the thing is that people ignore the complex intertwining of race relations, history, politics and economics before WW2.

From my understanding, the Japanese had no choice to go to war, and the primary reason was White supremacy.

The Japanese might have committed several war crimes at that time, but it seems the war was more than justified.

The U.S., FDR wasn't all that interested in getting into a war in the Pacific. He wanted war against Germany. It is true he wanted to punish the Japanese for their invasion of China, in fact we were pretty close with the Chang Kai-Shek.

A race war? Chinese vs. Japanese and we were on the Chinese side. The embargo was to punish the Japanese for their attack on China. If the embargo helped get us into a war with Germany, so much the better. Then you need to look at our military strategy early in the war. The U.S. focus was on Europe, not Asia. Our main objective was to take care of Germany first, Our object in the Pacific was to hold onto what we had with most of our resources going to fight Hitler.

If we were interested in white supremacy, we would have let Hitler continue his rampage throughout Africa and continue Eastward through the middle east and Russia.

 

[blacksmith]

The U.S., FDR wasn't all that interested in getting into a war in the Pacific. He wanted war against Germany. It is true he wanted to punish the Japanese for their invasion of China, in fact we were pretty close with the Chang Kai-Shek.

A race war? Chinese vs. Japanese and we were on the Chinese side. The embargo was to punish the Japanese for their attack on China. If the embargo helped get us into a war with Germany, so much the better. Then you need to look at our military strategy early in the war. The U.S. focus was on Europe, not Asia. Our main objective was to take care of Germany first, Our object in the Pacific was to hold onto what we had with most of our resources going to fight Hitler.

If we were interested in white supremacy, we would have let Hitler continue his rampage throughout Africa and continue Eastward through the middle east and Russia.

Did you read what I wrote?

I never say they wanted to exterminate Asians.

The thing you have to understand is that they wanted to maintain the status quo, which was the West controlling 99% of the world. And Japan getting none of it. They thought that people of color didn't deserve the right to govern themselves.

 

[Perotista]

It is hard to say. WWII was in many ways just a big racial war. The US certainly looked the other way when a lot of Jews and Africans died. The Germans thought they were superior to the Japanese even though they were allied and vice versa.

Very true, but back prior to WWII this nation was an isolationist nation feeling that the two oceans would keep this country free. Most Americans did not want to get involved in another war in Europe let alone the Pacific. The mood was to let those countries fight it out among themselves. The vast majority of Americans up to Pearl Harbor mind set was to stay out of it.

Now back in those days there were no TV, just radio to bring home the news. No showing of the tragedies of war or the deaths of the Jews and Africans. I think most Americans knew nothing of them. It was possible and probably true most Americans knew or cared little about what went on overseas. We had the depression to deal with, who cares if some countries in Europe, Africa and Asia are fighting a war.

 

[Perotista]

Did you read what I wrote?

I never say they wanted to exterminate Asians.

The thing you have to understand is that they wanted to maintain the status quo, which was the West controlling 99% of the world. And Japan getting none of it. They thought that people of color didn't deserve the right to govern themselves.

I think you're wrong there. If Japan didn't attack Pearl Harbor I am sure FDR would have let her have its way. He didn't like the fact the Japanese have invaded China, but he was not going to war over that fact either. FDR was very anti-colonialism. It fact it was the Japanese treatment of their fellow Asians that drove a lot of those Asian countries to our side during the War. Perhaps it is the Japanese with their feeling of superiority over everyone else that was the real racist country.

 

[shrubnose]

People committing evil acts is certainly nothing new, and certainly not specific to the Japanese.

Or to any other demographic group, eh?

 

[blacksmith]

Wait, what are you talking about?

I wasn't referring to the U.S. in particular, but the actions of the major powers. The U.S. might have been "anti-colonialist", but they didn't put any pressure against them to liberate their colonies. In fact, they didn't do anything and they themselves had colonies.

 

[lizzie]

Or to any other demographic group, eh?

Yes. We all have the propensity for committing atrocities. I'm not sure why this seems to be an issue for you. The Japanese are certainly no more guilty than any other group. WWII just means something to some of us personally, since we were attacked.

 

[blacksmith]

I know many of you will say that this is revisionist bull****, but there are many credible evidences that seem to suggest that there was a deliberate intent from certain people within the U.S. government to provoke the Japanese into a war.

Pearl Harbor 2.0 | TIME.com

 

[Goshin]

The Japanese were not angels, but the thing is that people ignore the complex intertwining of race relations, history, politics and economics before WW2.

From my understanding, the Japanese had no choice to go to war, and the primary reason was White supremacy.

The Japanese might have committed several war crimes at that time, but it seems the war was more than justified.

Your narrative is just as biased.


The reasons for war are often complex and multi layered, and depend on who you ask.


Doesn't really matter. War isn't about who is right, but who is left.

 

[blacksmith]

Your narrative is just as biased.


The reasons for war are often complex and multi layered, and depend on who you ask.


Doesn't really matter. War isn't about who is right, but who is left.

In what way is it biased?

Everything I said is true.

 

[Goshin]

In what way is it biased?

Everything I said is true.

It wasn't simply "White supremacy".

The Japanese islands lacked much in the way of natural resources for building a large industrial-military complex, which was the objective of the dominant military junta. In order to facilitate their plans to do this and to dominate the Asian region, they had to conquer areas that had more resources.

The US had not declared war on them, but we had indicated that we might act if their expansionism continued. Our fleet at Hawaii was a potential threat. They decided to attack us without warning, which I admit was a tactically sound idea, but they should have listened to Yamamoto about what would happen a year later.


However, had they not been inclined to conquest in the first place, the supposed "necessity" to go to war would not have followed.

 

[blacksmith]

They had to expand, because they couldn't feed their population. That's why they expanded. Their military build-up was meant to insure their security. If Japan wasn't there, Russia could have carved a big chunk of East Asia for itself and that would have been bad for Japan and everyone in the region.

 

[Henrin]

The Japanese people may have had no choice in the matter, but the Japanese government attacked the US in a quest for world domination. That sounds pretty evil to me.

No, they didn't. They attacked China and FDR feared they would continue their quest for domination west. As a result, he put sanctions on Japan that pushed them to attack Pearl Harbor. You could in a way blame interventionism and economic warfare waged by FDR for what happened at Pearl Harbor.

 

[Perotista]

It wasn't simply "White supremacy".

The Japanese islands lacked much in the way of natural resources for building a large industrial-military complex, which was the objective of the dominant military junta. In order to facilitate their plans to do this and to dominate the Asian region, they had to conquer areas that had more resources.

The US had not declared war on them, but we had indicated that we might act if their expansionism continued. Our fleet at Hawaii was a potential threat. They decided to attack us without warning, which I admit was a tactically sound idea, but they should have listened to Yamamoto about what would happen a year later.


However, had they not been inclined to conquest in the first place, the supposed "necessity" to go to war would not have followed.

For some people it is always about race. What you say is true. The U.S. had their ire up over the Japanese invasion of China, but not enough to go to war over it. We actually got off easy in Pearl. Now if the Japanese had launched their second wave as planned, destroyed the docks and repair facilities it would have take us several years instead of one to have our might felt. Can you imagine having to begin the fight from San Diego instead of Pearl.

We were darn lucky.

 

[Perotista]

They had to expand, because they couldn't feed their population. That's why they expanded. Their military build-up was meant to insure their security. If Japan wasn't there, Russia could have carved a big chunk of East Asia for itself and that would have been bad for Japan and everyone in the region.

Russia at that time was in chaos. Stalin had just recently purged the military of what he called untrustworthy generals. His army lacked leadership. Lacked experienced leadership. Russia was in no position to challenge Japan.