How can the right even suggest that they are Christian[W:487]

[winston53660]

Jesus believed that the strong should protect the weak.

American conservatives believe the weak are meat the strong should eat.

The later sounds like Ayn Rand's ideology

 

[jbander]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

According to the CATO institute, the federal government has spent more than $15 trillion on poverty programs since the passage of the Great Society initiatives of LBJ. The poverty rate, however, remains about the same as it was then. The difference now is that you have multi generations of people dependent on some form of welfare when that wasn't the case before.

You better first look at what was included in the Cato Study, A horribly conservative institution. This fact was given Two Pinocchios. it's garbage if you look at how they came by their number. Try this on for size in 1960 22%-23% in 1965 it was about 19% of this country was in poverty, in 2006 12% -13% of our population is in poverty. After the Bush/regressive recession it went up to 14-15% The very liberal Forbes says that it is really 4.5% and assumes your number is just another attack on the poor.
By the way at its best this is more flaky regressive gibberish . The number that your referring to and all regressive are referring to is the number not the percentage of the population. Bogus, totally bogus. The population in 1960 was 170 million now it is 326 million , almost twice the population. This study is typical regressive study. More garbage then facts.

 

[AlbqOwl]

They did not give the federal government the power to regulate clean air or food safety.

They absolutely did give the government the ability to levy taxes and provide services.

The drivers license was showing the ridiculousness of passing every administrative duty blindly to the bottom. You'd just have rich people found their own state whose borders doesn't include the ghettos, build a big fence, armed guards, and bam. Now you've put poor people into internment camps. It's passing the buck of poverty along instead of taking responsibility for it like any Christian should be happy to do.

Your posts do seem to be more and more accusatory, judgmental, and angry and further removed from the my arguments. But everybody has his day in court and all that. . .

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

And your basis for this conclusion is that $15 trillion is a really big number?

How about we look up how much it costs to feed, house, and provide healthcare for people in poverty along that span of time and then compare the two before we conclude anything?

Furthermore, we need to educate the poor, which costs more than the bare minimum to keep them out of poverty. We share with one another. We carry each other.

How about seeing what it would have cost to put folks to work instead of making them dependent on welfare and evaluate how much better off they and their children and grandchildren could be.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

You better first look at what was included in the Cato Study, A horribly conservative institution. This fact was given Two Pinocchios. it's garbage if you look at how they came by their number. Try this on for size in 1960 22%-23% in 1965 it was about 19% of this country was in poverty, in 2006 12% -13% of our population is in poverty. After the Bush/regressive recession it went up to 14-15% The very liberal Forbes says that it is really 4.5% and assumes your number is just another attack on the poor.
By the way at its best this is more flaky regressive gibberish . The number that your referring to and all regressive are referring to is the number not the percentage of the population. Bogus, totally bogus. The population in 1960 was 170 million now it is 326 million , almost twice the population. This study is typical regressive study. More garbage then facts.

You are entitled to believe whatever facts you believe but I doubt you can find a reliable source that seriously disputes conservative articles in Forbes or information published by CATO. I read Forbes pretty often and it always gives two sides to every argument over time. It is hardly a 'very liberal' publication. And CATO is libertarian, not conservative.

 

[humbolt]

It will cost money to fix poverty.

Taking money from the impoverished can't possibly fix poverty.

From the poor, unlikely.

From the middle class, it would be an uphill battle but do-able.

From the upper class, crazy easy.

This is not a matter of attacking anyone. I am joining in the claim that American conservatives generally seek to cull benefits to pay for tax cuts on the rich, a tactic that i consider to be genuinely against the teachings of the Bible.

Yeah, I know. You keep repeating yourself. I'm not interested.

 

[Logicman]

He died...that is what I explain happened. And some myths about him developed...just like the throwing of the silver dollar and never lying developed about George Washington.

See, this is what I want you to substantiate: that "myths" about him developed.

Example?

If you're referring to the Gospels, please identify which "myth" you're talking about. Something to substantiate your claim would also be appreciated.

 

[Logicman]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

The God of The bible and the Koran are the Same god, which in both cases is the God of Abraham .

Nonsense.

The god of Islam, Allah, is most definitely not the God of the Bible. We find that Allah is presented in the Koran as an autocratic ruler who is aloof and arbitrary (Sura 5:40 ). Allah is unknowable whereas the God of the Bible is knowable (2 Timothy 1:12 ). Allah is impersonal, unlike the personal God the Scriptures reveal (1 Peter 5:6-7). Allah is unitarian (Sura 4:48 ) whereas the God of the Bible is trinitarian (2 Corinthians 13:14 ). Here is what the Koran says about the God of the Bible (Sura 4:171 ): “Believe in Allah and say not ‘Trinity.’ Cease! It is better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son.”

The God in the Bible is called the God of the Jews, an impossibility with Allah. They are called his chosen people, but they are not Allah’s chosen. Allah commands the Muslim to not take the Jews or Christians as friends (Sura.5:51 disdains the Jews). Mohammed said, “The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them.” (Mishkat Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf pp.147, 721, 810-11, 1130). So how could Israel inherit the land or any of God’s promises from Allah, if Allah is their God? Clearly he is not the same God of the Bible.

More in the link.

Do Muslims, Jews, and Christians worship the same God? « The Righter Report

 

[Logicman]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

You better first look at what was included in the Cato Study, A horribly conservative institution. This fact was given Two Pinocchios. it's garbage if you look at how they came by their number. Try this on for size in 1960 22%-23% in 1965 it was about 19% of this country was in poverty, in 2006 12% -13% of our population is in poverty. After the Bush/regressive recession it went up to 14-15% The very liberal Forbes says that it is really 4.5% and assumes your number is just another attack on the poor.
By the way at its best this is more flaky regressive gibberish . The number that your referring to and all regressive are referring to is the number not the percentage of the population. Bogus, totally bogus. The population in 1960 was 170 million now it is 326 million , almost twice the population. This study is typical regressive study. More garbage then facts.

Why don't you sell your computer and give the money to the poor?

 

[Frank Apisa]

See, this is what I want you to substantiate: that "myths" about him developed.

Example?

If you're referring to the Gospels, please identify which "myth" you're talking about. Something to substantiate your claim would also be appreciated.

The entire thing sounds like myth to me. And it myths by a wide margin.

My guess would be that it is all mythology...intertwined with a fanciful history of the early Hebrew people.

Okay?

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Nonsense.

The god of Islam, Allah, is most definitely not the God of the Bible. We find that Allah is presented in the Koran as an autocratic ruler who is aloof and arbitrary (Sura 5:40 ).

Oh...the irony!

 

[jbander]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

You are entitled to believe whatever facts you believe but I doubt you can find a reliable source that seriously disputes conservative articles in Forbes or information published by CATO. I read Forbes pretty often and it always gives two sides to every argument over time. It is hardly a 'very liberal' publication. And CATO is libertarian, not conservative.

You have to read a little closer The Forbes article is denying the Cato argument as far as whatever the amount was spent The study says the same amount of people are in poverty as there was in 1965. If You can't see the garbage in that your blind. We have almost double are population in that time, its a crap study. You said I can believe what I want, if that a suggestion that something I said is wrong then feel free to comment . Otherwise you just another bogus regressive. Lies by Forbes are you really serious. it took me 30 seconds to fine d the first---------"Last week, Forbes blogger Rick Ungar admitted he was wrong about Obamacare and insurance rates, following the news that California's rates were actually less than expected. " so what happened "That must have come as a shock to the Forbes community, so they quickly put Avik Roy, their corporate pharma shill, on the job. His post making the claim that rates double" a complete lie. If I had another 2 or three seconds I could probably find 2000 more. Yes Cato is Libertarian, which is course Libertarian being nothing other then a Anarchist for the wealthy. The lies of Cato took me less time about 1 second, and brings up a non stoplist , I will just give you the first. "Take the liars at the Cato Institute, the right-wing think tank in Washington that issued a report last fall in which they "figured" that welfare families typically get $17,500 a year in benefits, with some cities doling out more than $25,000 per family.Hey, juicy deal, huh? The Life of Riley, sign me up!Trouble is though, the Cato report was wrong. Wildly wrong. The Center for Budget and Policy Priorities recently went over Cato's figures and found that...well, they lied. The typical welfare family makes not $17,500 but less than $9,000, which is $3,000 below the poverty line...not exactly Fat City.Among Cato's little statistical fibs was its assumption that each welfare family in America receives housing assistance. "

 

[jbander]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Why don't you sell your computer and give the money to the poor?

Whats this, the fake minister just peed in his panties. I won't tell anyone though.

 

[jbander]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Nonsense.

The god of Islam, Allah, is most definitely not the God of the Bible. We find that Allah is presented in the Koran as an autocratic ruler who is aloof and arbitrary (Sura 5:40 ). Allah is unknowable whereas the God of the Bible is knowable (2 Timothy 1:12 ). Allah is impersonal, unlike the personal God the Scriptures reveal (1 Peter 5:6-7). Allah is unitarian (Sura 4:48 ) whereas the God of the Bible is trinitarian (2 Corinthians 13:14 ). Here is what the Koran says about the God of the Bible (Sura 4:171 ): “Believe in Allah and say not ‘Trinity.’ Cease! It is better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son.”

The God in the Bible is called the God of the Jews, an impossibility with Allah. They are called his chosen people, but they are not Allah’s chosen. Allah commands the Muslim to not take the Jews or Christians as friends (Sura.5:51 disdains the Jews). Mohammed said, “The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them.” (Mishkat Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf pp.147, 721, 810-11, 1130). So how could Israel inherit the land or any of God’s promises from Allah, if Allah is their God? Clearly he is not the same God of the Bible.

More in the link.

Do Muslims, Jews, and Christians worship the same God? « The Righter Report

You have no clue buddy. What is the god of Abraham

 

[jbander]

Jesus believed that the strong should protect the weak.

American conservatives believe the weak are meat the strong should eat.

Boy if that doesn't say it concisely. May I also point out it just supports the comment I started here.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Your posts do seem to be more and more accusatory, judgmental, and angry and further removed from the my arguments. But everybody has his day in court and all that. . .

I'll give you that i extrapolated far away. I meant to illustrate the fact that if you always lead it to the smallest government, pretty soon people are simply governing their own neighborhoods or houses and you can essentially ignore poverty.


At some point, i think it just makes sense to take care of Americans. The states already mismanage federal TANF money (welfare) so what we should really have is an unconditional benefit that tapers off gradually so that more income is always incentivized and that poor people never starve to death.

How about seeing what it would have cost to put folks to work instead of making them dependent on welfare and evaluate how much better off they and their children and grandchildren could be.

I like spending money to put people to work, but "guaranteed work" would go too far if the employee could misbehave.

I like the idea of an unconditional welfare state with some sort of state sponsored, semi-private industry. These conditions we place on benefits can become expensive to administrate and/or incentivize stagnation.

 

[Thrilla]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

well, if anything can be learned from this thread, it's that the leftist haters among us have literally no knowledge of the religion they are using as a weapon to bludgeon their fellow countrymen.

ya'll have literally taken a couple of thousand years of scriptural study and thrown it out the window, offering up a distorted alternative to biblical knowledge... all for political purposes, and nothing else.
you're literally no better than extremist Muslims terrorists in this regards... utterly despicable behavior...if ya had an integrity, you'd hang your head in shame, charlatans.

hurdy durdy durr.. rich people can't get into heaven... durp...durp...conservatives want to eat the weak.....durp....liberals are Christ like... durp durp.
idiots.:roll:

the ignorance in here is simply breathtaking.

 

[Logicman]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Whats this, the fake minister just peed in his panties. I won't tell anyone though.

You're not making a bit of sense, and your ad hominems are sophomoric.

 

[Logicman]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

You have no clue buddy. What is the god of Abraham

Don't bother me anymore with your nonsense.

 

[Logicman]

The entire thing sounds like myth to me. And it myths by a wide margin.

My guess would be that it is all mythology...intertwined with a fanciful history of the early Hebrew people.

Okay?

Well you make the claim but there's nothing that you have to make your case. Where's the beef?

Myths usually take a generation to take hold, because there's still people alive to refute them if they're false. And we see nothing like that occurring in the 1st century. Not only that, but there's no specific, secular denials of the resurrection in the 1st century either that I'm aware of.

If you're an anti-supernaturalist, where's your scientific studies to back up your position?

Frank, you play the rationalist, but you can't support the myriad of half-baked claims that you make. You've got no credibility with your claims.

 

[Logicman]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Oh...the irony!

Jesus was aloof and arbitrary? Get a new dog, Frank. That one of yours doesn't hunt.

 

[jbander]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Don't bother me anymore with your nonsense.

If you look a little closer you will see my response's are only to your comments. Pee boy.

 

[tosca1]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

1. Nowhere.
You're not forced to pay taxes. You're not forced to live in the US.

What kind of an answer is that????? Why bring in paying your taxes and living in the USA? You guys don't know how to focus!

This is what I was referring to: YOUR BIBLE VERSE QUOTE!

tosca1

1. Where does it say the people are forced to give?



It is more blessed to give than to receive
Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed

If people are forced to give, what generosity is there to be blessed about, and to be REPAID FOR THE GENEROUS DEED?
Everyone will be on the same footing, wouldn't it?

What's paying taxes and living in the USA got to do with it?? You gave that verse - and I'm trying to discuss it with you!

You're not forced to pay taxes. You're not forced to live in the US.

Furthermore, what makes you say we're not forced to pay our taxes? Say that again? That clearly shows remarkable ignorance! :lol:

If you meet the income requirement for paying taxes, of course you have to pay your taxes! There are penalties for not paying your taxes!

If you have to resort to uprooting yourself and living elsewhere so you don't have to pay tax- then, that means you are being forced to pay your taxes! :lol:





At least you answered my question regarding the verse you quoted, and I was right. God doesn't force people to give. I asked you:

1. Where does it say the people are forced to give?

You answered: Nowhere.



I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your stuffs! You guys are all over the map - there is no sensible discussing with you and Frank!
All you've done is dig in your heels, and repeat the same irrational argument!

Looks like, Frank, Jbander and you would be the fringe leftist extremists!:mrgreen:

Believe what you want to believe!

 

[tosca1]

Re: How can the right even suggest that they are Christian

Your first I'll take a shot at. In the bible it says that all kings are selected by God, and two things are asked of them, one to act as God would and follow his laws, his laws are defined clearly . two of them that I have found, That make it clear that we have to take car of the needy. The King in the bible is government. There are probably many many more because there is over 600 of Gods laws. This is the last thing that all regressive want to hear. Because they want to move this money from the poor to the top, in their trickle up economics.

:roll:



READ CAREFULLY:

No one is saying we shouldn't be taking care of the needy and the poor!

That's the major problem with all you three amigos: lack of comprehension skills.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Well you make the claim but there's nothing that you have to make your case. Where's the beef?

Myths usually take a generation to take hold, because there's still people alive to refute them if they're false. And we see nothing like that occurring in the 1st century. Not only that, but there's no specific, secular denials of the resurrection in the 1st century either that I'm aware of.

If you're an anti-supernaturalist, where's your scientific studies to back up your position?

Frank, you play the rationalist, but you can't support the myriad of half-baked claims that you make. You've got no credibility with your claims.

What claim specifically can I not back up?