Hooray!!! Thanks Barack for the new and improved CAFE standards

[celticlord]

Yeah, you're right. They should continue to produce cars that no one buy's. That's a way better plan.:roll:

In Houston the price of gas is currently $2.15 or so a gallon for regular unleaded.

Care to guess how important 40mpg is versus having the leg room to ward off deep vein thrombosis while driving as well as being able to survive being smacked by the sleep-deprived trucker bearing down on me from behind when I'm on the freeway?

Fuel efficiency is a nice plus, but not everyone puts it at the top of their must-have list for cars.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Your problem is that you are ignoring human innovation. You guys would have us living in a nation with air quality like China has if you had your way because every time an efficiency and pollution mandate is proposed, all we get is doom and gloom out of the hard core right.

This supposes nonsense I never stated.

Personally, I have faith in human innovation. I honestly believe that come 2016, I will be able to buy the kind of vehicles I like to drive, they will simply be more efficient and cleaner running than my choices are now.

maybe, unless the government mandates them out of business.

We have had efficiency and pollution mandates on a wide variety of products over the last 30 years and we have more choice today as consumers than ever before.

were these companies on the verge of closing shop?

 

[ARealConservative]

Your problem is that you are ignoring human innovation. You guys would have us living in a nation with air quality like China has if you had your way because every time an efficiency and pollution mandate is proposed, all we get is doom and gloom out of the hard core right.

China lives in a air quality like China to feed our consumption appetite which is only made possible by keynesian monetary policy. This is the fault of your ideology, no matter how much you try to ignore the truth.

 

[B L Zeebub]

sebrings are crap, and they are no muscle car. :lol:

your dam right mate, I had to drive it for a week before they got me a mustang, the seegull had 2000 mls on it so it was new.

The electrics faulted, the boot would not close , the aircon broke, the soft top leaked, it was difficult to start and miss fired.

Bikes I love them my brother and I share a Honda Blackbird, this is some yrs ago clic on pic

 

[Shep Dawg]

-
Let me SPLANE it to you once again but please read before you post again,:doh
In 5 years from now there will still be MILLIONs and MILLIONS of 4,000 to 5,000 lb cars, trucks, Suvs etc, still around and if 1 of them hits a carbon and alloy vehicle they are DEAD!!!
End of story.
-
Oh and BTW: My youngest Son is racing in NASCAR and I have full view of the outside AND the inside of these great cars.
Guess what I saw when I looked into his race car?????
A ***ROLLCAGE***.
-
So there goes your theory about crashes at 200 MPG.
OH and did you ever hear about a race car driver named
***Dale Earnhardt Sr.***.

I'm happy to hear about your son, you should be very proud.

Now allow me to debunk your entire argument. :doh

You are saying basically since we already have 4000-5000 Lb vehicles, we're screwed and can never make cars smaller, because no matter when we try to convert to to more energy efficient cars there will still be millions of these large vehicles on the road.

And you're right, NASCAR and pretty much all race cars do have roll cages. So just because we've put a man on the moon, built nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers, the space shuttle, sent a space probe to mars, developed stealth technology, along with many other technological marvels, we probably can't figure out how to incorporate a roll cage design into a passenger vehicle in the next 5-6 years. That technology is still just a little beyond our grasp. Are you serious? Really? Keep in mind also that were not talking about 200mph crashes, we're talking about 75mph crashes. Just out of curiosity, what are these roll cages in your son's cars made from?

Uh Oh,... great argument there with the Dale Earnhardt Sr. reference. Using that logic, no car should be on the road. Dale's death was tragic, both for his family, and the sport of racing. But seriously how many wrecks are there where the driver is uninjured compared to dying or even being seriously injured are there in racing? There have been fatalities in every make and model of car, truck and SUV currently on the road. Name one vehicle that has a 100% rating in surviving a crash in real world circumstances.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

your dam right mate, I had to drive it for a week before they got me a mustang, the seegull had 2000 mls on it so it was new.

The electrics faulted, the boot would not close , the aircon broke, the soft top leaked, it was difficult to start and miss fired.

Bikes I love them my brother and I share a Honda Blackbird, this is some yrs ago clic on picView attachment 67109276

View attachment 67109277

Sweet I put about 4k on my sv a year.


Hear is me in the catskills ny state last year:

I didn't get te bike lower in those turns as you can see the gravel pile on the side of the road. :mrgreen:
:mrgreen:

 

[winston53660]

Sweet I put about 4k on my sv a year.


Hear is me in the catskills ny state last year:

I didn't get te bike lower in those turns as you can see the gravel pile on the side of the road. :mrgreen:
:mrgreen:

That looks like fun. To bad I'm still gun shy but then again I have to much metal in my body and more operations than a heart patient.

 

[B L Zeebub]

Revers we only use it on tracks now and then, everyone is going oneway and there are no dickhead car drivers.

Its old age and loss of bottle

And no gravel rash:moon:

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Revers we only use it on tracks now and then, everyone is going oneway and there are no dickhead car drivers.

Its old age and loss of bottle

:lol: I hear ya. We go into the less populated areas. We did west Virginia last year. The entire state was like a race track. :mrgreen:

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Here's an idea:

How about if we let Congress and the President go back to doing what the Constitution requires it do, and we let the auto industry and the people buying the cars establish for themselves what they want to see in terms of fuel efficiency in cars, since the Constitution doesn't grant the federal government that authority anyway?

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Is the government actually telling the auto makers they have to "build things that people do not want",

Yes.

If the people wanted this crap, the government wouldn't have to interfere.

or are they just laying out standards for what the auto makers do build.

It's the industry's job to set standards, not the government's. Last time I checked, not one Congressthing was an automotive engineer.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

It should be possible to increase mileage without downsizing. There are more routes to fuel efficiency than just size/weight.

Not really.

F = mA

In steady flight, and steady driving, thrust equals drag.

The laws of nature command that a "fuel efficient" vehicle is going to be underpowered, lightweight, and small with as narrow a drag profile as possible.

We people that don't mind driving gas hogs call them "coffins".

 

[winston53660]

Yes.

If the people wanted this crap, the government wouldn't have to interfere.


.

It seems like the people did not want the crap they were building before on their own. Why else would they be in bankruptcy?

 

[Redress]

Not really.

F = mA

In steady flight, and steady driving, thrust equals drag.

The laws of nature command that a "fuel efficient" vehicle is going to be underpowered, lightweight, and small with as narrow a drag profile as possible.

We people that don't mind driving gas hogs call them "coffins".

So it positively cannot be done with improvements to the technology of the engine and fuel injection? Seems like, as an example, the reason we use fuel injection over carburetors is in part because they improve fuel efficiency.

 

[UtahBill]

So it positively cannot be done with improvements to the technology of the engine and fuel injection? Seems like, as an example, the reason we use fuel injection over carburetors is in part because they improve fuel efficiency.

A properly maintained and adjusted carb can come very close to fuel injection when it is performance and mileage being considered. The big gain for FI is emissions....
The gains made since the 70's are in part due to new technology, and in part due to old technology. There was never a good reason to NOT use overdrive tranmissions. Detroit was just too lazy to do it. The OD trans accounts for MOST of the mileage gains for light trucks. Head design is the next big gain. Right now, the next big gain to be had for light trucks will be in aerodynamics and weight reduction.

 

[Redress]

A properly maintained and adjusted carb can come very close to fuel injection when it is performance and mileage being considered. The big gain for FI is emissions....
The gains made since the 70's are in part due to new technology, and in part due to old technology. There was never a good reason to NOT use overdrive tranmissions. Detroit was just too lazy to do it. The OD trans accounts for MOST of the mileage gains for light trucks. Head design is the next big gain. Right now, the next big gain to be had for light trucks will be in aerodynamics and weight reduction.

Thank you, you made my point much better than I did. There are multiple routes to the same destination.

 

[Analyst]

I think you would find that the majority of all driving is done based on need. Gas prices are another consideration, largely from a psychological standpoint, though practical as well. Your link suggested that higher fuel efficiency might increase miles driven, but to offset the CAFE increase, people would have to increase their miles driven by about 50 %, which is highly unlikely.

Who the heck wants to drive MORE? I hate driving. It sucks in Seattle, I prefer to drive very little. I drive an economy car, and if I had a more efficient car I wouldn't drive more, I'd just save money

 

[hazlnut]

Um... I don't know if anybody told you, but several large auto-makers have been employing American workers to build those cars for several years now.

Toyota, Honda, and Ford.

GM moved their factories to Mexico to better compete in a global economy. How'd that work out for GM?

 

[Redress]

Um... I don't know if anybody told you, but several large auto-makers have been employing American workers to build those cars for several years now.

Toyota, Honda, and Ford.

GM moved their factories to Mexico to better compete in a global economy. How'd that work out for GM?

I make parts for Toyota when I am not laid off.

 

[UtahBill]

Who the heck wants to drive MORE? I hate driving. It sucks in Seattle, I prefer to drive very little. I drive an economy car, and if I had a more efficient car I wouldn't drive more, I'd just save money

My chevy truck gets terrible mileage, so it sits in the garage unless I actually need to haul something.....
We use the wife's 2000 Impala for most of our driving, it does pretty good on the economy scale.
High MPG vechicles is one way to use less gasoline, using the vehicle less is a cheaper way.:lol:

 

[LaMidRighter]

It seems like the people did not want the crap they were building before on their own. Why else would they be in bankruptcy?

I would disagree. American SUVs and Trucks were outselling their foreign counterparts by a large margin, I see Caddys all over the place here, the things that weren't selling were the econoboxes and other small American vehicles that were nothing more than "also rans" when compared to their foreign competition. There were many factors in that from the copycat designs of the American vehicles, to the efficiency and quality lapses, etc. Think about this as well, the new muscle coming out of Detroit is generating a huge industry buzz, as well as other vehicles geared towards family and "point a to b" drivers.

Edit- of the American vehicles should be "from the American vehicles", sorry.

 

[LaMidRighter]

A properly maintained and adjusted carb can come very close to fuel injection when it is performance and mileage being considered. The big gain for FI is emissions....
The gains made since the 70's are in part due to new technology, and in part due to old technology. There was never a good reason to NOT use overdrive tranmissions. Detroit was just too lazy to do it. The OD trans accounts for MOST of the mileage gains for light trucks. Head design is the next big gain. Right now, the next big gain to be had for light trucks will be in aerodynamics and weight reduction.

I agree with most of this, but stop at the last sentance, aerodynamics I'll give you, but I don't think lightening trucks is a good idea, the last thing you need is a frame that will twist more easily, especially if it goes when you are in the middle of a turn or if you are trailoring.