Homosexuality is a Choice: You are not "Born" Gay

[Redress]

Yeah but one thing.. No faulty logic.. If you can choose to begay, then it folows that you can choose to be ungay. Interesting though that the percentage (According to CT) of those that can choose to be ungay is similar to the percentage of gays in the population? Now that's just weird isnt't it?


Tim-

We do not know currently if any one can become ungay. We do not currently have good, accurate methods to determine orientation. Self reporting is a horrible method to determine something like that. it is possible that some people may be able to change orientation. We just do not know for sure, nor know who or why.

 

[Your Star]

You might be straight and just happen to be messin with the wrong dudes tho :2razz:

:rofl Yeah, that's it. :2razz:

 

[hazlnut]

So you, CT, conceed there is a success rate. All that matters is that there is at least one successful case.

None of that 'gay cure' crap has ever been validated by legitimate psychologists and researchers.

Sure, many a Christian university will but forth their studies on the issue, but you can not rewire someone's brain.

And, a bisexual who chooses to sleep with the opposite sex, is not cured. They have that choice because their brain is wired to be attracted to both sexes.

Plus, you/we/these deluded christian researchers are not in someone's head when they having sex. Are they thinking about their partner or someone else... of the same sex. Are they feeling less shame because their behavior conforms to some misguided religious belief, or are they genuinely happy and fulfilled?

The thread had not been validated by anything that you have said thus far...

 

[Wake]

Good for you. You can claim that it may actually be a choice for 3 out of 100 gay people. Of course, then you are conceding that it isn't a choice for the other 97.

The point of this thread was to argue against the notion that you can't choose to go from gay to straight. Apparently, you can if you try hard enough. Even you can, CT, I think. As for the notion of being born gay, I have seen no gay gene. If we can find quarks and the Higgs Boson God Particle, why have we not found the straight/gay genes? Then again, we know we have found gay gene, and we know the species has to multiply through straight intercourse. I don't know. What we do know is that 3% of those who say they are gay have successfully converted to being straight. Perhaps, with volume and furor to match those who claim you are born gay, the success rate can increase?

 

[hazlnut]

Good for you. You can claim that it may actually be a choice for 3 out of 100 gay people. Of course, then you are conceding that it isn't a choice for the other 97.

I think Wake is confusing homosexuality with bisexuality and/or a one off experimentation.

 

[nota bene]

So stereotyping is wrong, but you can easily say that all people are born as "inherently bisexual sluts"? Glad you are so morally superior to those of us who have our solid beliefs.

By the way, your question about being more prone to crime does bring up a few points. You do realize there is an addiction center in the brain, right? There are specific chemicals released when you find someone attractive. There is a clear genetic link to depression and psychosis as much as hair color.

Rapidly shifting values could also be a result of 10000% more openly gay women. Luckily, the social stigma is lifting and they can live more open lives. My sister has been out since she was 21, while my aunt had to wait until she was nearly 50 to tell how she had felt her entire life.

As for prison, well, that can easily be answered. It is entirely possible the folks went into prison gay and acted on it there. Maybe they were bi and started embracing their other side. Maybe it's a form of dominance in a sadistic, controlled culture full of criminals and psychotics.

I don't have any more or less respect for anyone who is gay and whether or not they believe it was a choice. I do have respect for those who embrace that part of themselves and show it in a culture where that is far from rewarded.

One last thing ... homosexuality isn't a defect of any kind.

But, by definition, it is a deviation from the norm, an aberration.

The "value judgment" is in assigning "right" or "wrong" or "good" or "bad." That's not at all what I'm saying, so I hope nobody will climb up my butt because he or she doesn't understand the difference between the "norm" and "normal."

 

[teamosil]

The point of this thread was to argue against the notion that you can't choose to go from gay to straight. Apparently, you can if you try hard enough.

Do you believe you could turn yourself gay by trying hard enough?

 

[Wake]

We do not know currently if any one can become ungay. We do not currently have good, accurate methods to determine orientation. Self reporting is a horrible method to determine something like that. it is possible that some people may be able to change orientation. We just do not know for sure, nor know who or why.

None of that 'gay cure' crap has ever been validated by legitimate psychologists and researchers.Sure, many a Christian university will but forth their studies on the issue, but you can not rewire someone's brain.And, a bisexual who chooses to sleep with the opposite sex, is not cured. They have that choice because their brain is wired to be attracted to both sexes.Plus, you/we/these deluded christian researchers are not in someone's head when they having sex. Are they thinking about their partner or someone else... of the same sex. Are they feeling less shame because their behavior conforms to some misguided religious belief, or are they genuinely happy and fulfilled?The thread had not been validated by anything that you have said thus far...

CT has said there is a 3% success rate for that therapy. Are you saying he is wrong? If so, how do you prove it?

 

[Redress]

CT has said there is a 3% success rate for that therapy. Are you saying he is wrong? If so, how do you prove it?

I am saying it is highly questionable.

 

[Anagram]

The point of this thread was to argue against the notion that you can't choose to go from gay to straight. Apparently, you can if you try hard enough. Even you can, CT, I think. As for the notion of being born gay, I have seen no gay gene. If we can find quarks and the Higgs Boson God Particle, why have we not found the straight/gay genes? Then again, we know we have found gay gene, and we know the species has to multiply through straight intercourse. I don't know. What we do know is that 3% of those who say they are gay have successfully converted to being straight. Perhaps, with volume and furor to match those who claim you are born gay, the success rate can increase?

One important point. It's not three percent of people who say they are gay have been converted to being straight. It is three percent of those who have taken the conversion therapy have been converted. You'd think that if it was a choice more than three percent would be able to successfully change if they wanted to.

 

[Wake]

Do you believe you could turn yourself gay by trying hard enough?

Of course. When I say I think it's a choice, I think it's a choice. However, just because I know I can very well choose that lifestyle, doesn:t mean I want to. Metaphorically, it's like I know I can choose lemonade over coffee, but I prefer the coffee; it's not like I can't choose. :shrug:

 

[StillBallin75]

Of course. When I say I think it's a choice, I think it's a choice. However, just because I know I can very well choose that lifestyle, doesn:t mean I want to. Metaphorically, it's like I know I can choose lemonade over coffee, but I prefer the coffee; it's not like I can't choose. :shrug:

But can you choose to change your preference and prefer lemonade over the coffee?

 

[teamosil]

Of course. When I say I think it's a choice, I think it's a choice. However, just because I know I can very well choose that lifestyle, doesn:t mean I want to. Metaphorically, it's like I know I can choose lemonade over coffee, but I prefer the coffee; it's not like I can't choose. :shrug:

The question isn't "can you decide to pretend to be gay". I'm asking if you if you think you could choose actually be gay- to be more attracted to men than you are to women. Do you think you could choose that?

Some people do claim that they think they could choose something like that. Generally bi-sexual people. Personally I don't think I could possibly make a change like that in what sex I'm attracted to, and I think the same is true of most folks.

 

[Anagram]

Of course. When I say I think it's a choice, I think it's a choice. However, just because I know I can very well choose that lifestyle, doesn:t mean I want to. Metaphorically, it's like I know I can choose lemonade over coffee, but I prefer the coffee; it's not like I can't choose. :shrug:

Not arguing that you cannot choose the lifestyle. I'm arguing that who you are sexually attracted to is not a simple choice. I could go have an eleven guy orgy right now, but I couldn't make myself like it.

 

[Wake]

One important point. It's not three percent of people who say they are gay have been converted to being straight. It is three percent of those who have taken the conversion therapy have been converted. You'd think that if it was a choice more than three percent would be able to successfully change if they wanted to.

If there were as many opinionated people who said it was a choice as those who say it isn't, as well as the volume/intensity of opinion, the success rate would be much greater, to be sure.

 

[hazlnut]

But, by definition, it is a deviation from the norm, an aberration.

Another ignorant notion taught to people by so-called Christians.

And Dinosaurs lived 2000 years ago...

 

[CriticalThought]

The point of this thread was to argue against the notion that you can't choose to go from gay to straight. Apparently, you can if you try hard enough. Even you can, CT, I think. As for the notion of being born gay, I have seen no gay gene. If we can find quarks and the Higgs Boson God Particle, why have we not found the straight/gay genes? Then again, we know we have found gay gene, and we know the species has to multiply through straight intercourse. I don't know. What we do know is that 3% of those who say they are gay have successfully converted to being straight. Perhaps, with volume and furor to match those who claim you are born gay, the success rate can increase?

Actually we have found genes related to female fecundity that increase the probability that an individual will be gay.

Evidence for maternally inherited factors favouring male homosexuality and promoting female fecundity.

As far as increasing the number, that is the best it is gong to get. You have to remember that those are the numbers of the people who hate being gay and believe like you that it is a sin and they pay large sums of money and spend months or years trying to convert themselves. There is also evidence that significant harm is caused to many in the 97% of people who don't convert. Every major therapeutic organization considers it unethical to practice conversion therapy because of the potential harm. Would you be so callous as to harm a lot of people in hopes of converting a few?

There is also the possibility that the 3% are simply those who are best at lying to themselves or are people who have bisexual natures but only recognized the homosexual part until they entered treatment.

 

[Anagram]

If there were as many opinionated people who said it was a choice as those who say it isn't, as well as the volume/intensity of opinion, the success rate would be much greater, to be sure.

Possibly, but why do you suppose there aren't the same number of people who say it's a choice, especially among homosexuals.

 

[AClockworkGrape]

Wake's logic is very, very faulty. Even if being homosexual was a choice, does it really matter? I assume you think it would make it more acceptable to vilify the gay lifestyle, right Wake? The fact of the matter is, what someone chooses to do or not do is none of your business, unless, you know, it affects you in some way.

Until two consenting adults having sex in their own property affects you, why do you care?

 

[Hicup]

We do not know currently if any one can become ungay. We do not currently have good, accurate methods to determine orientation. Self reporting is a horrible method to determine something like that. it is possible that some people may be able to change orientation. We just do not know for sure, nor know who or why.

Hmmm... Seems like a slide to me, redress. We know, and it has been acknowledged that people can choose to be gay, so why not choose to be ungay? Right?

Tim-

 

[Anagram]

Wake's logic is very, very faulty. Even if being homosexual was a choice, does it really matter? I assume you think it would make it more acceptable to vilify the gay lifestyle, right Wake? The fact of the matter is, what someone chooses to do or not do is none of your business, unless, you know, it affects you in some way.

Until two consenting adults having sex in their own property affects you, why do you care?

That's my opinion as well. Even though I see a multitude of evidence that shows genetic factors in homosexuality, it wouldn't change my opinion on them. They're still people free to do whatever they want as long as they don't infringe on my rights or the rights of others.

 

[Hicup]

Actually we have found genes related to female fecundity that increase the probability that an individual will be gay.

Evidence for maternally inherited factors favouring male homosexuality and promoting female fecundity.

As far as increasing the number, that is the best it is gong to get. You have to remember that those are the numbers of the people who hate being gay and believe like you that it is a sin and they pay large sums of money and spend months or years trying to convert themselves. There is also evidence that significant harm is caused to many in the 97% of people who don't convert. Every major therapeutic organization considers it unethical to practice conversion therapy because of the potential harm. Would you be so callous as to harm a lot of people in hopes of converting a few?

There is also the possibility that the 3% are simply those who are best at lying to themselves or are people who have bisexual natures but only recognized the homosexual part until they entered treatment.

What does female fecundity say about heterosexuality, CT? Oh I know.. NOTHING..


Tim-

 

[Wake]

But can you choose to change your preference and prefer lemonade over the coffee?

There is a reason I used that metaphor. I preferred lemonade over coffee for five years. Five years. Only recently have I really cared to try coffee again, and I can see myself drinking more in the future.

The question isn't "can you decide to pretend to be gay". I'm asking if you if you think you could choose actually be gay- to be more attracted to men than you are to women. Do you think you could choose that?Some people do claim that they think they could choose something like that. Generally bi-sexual people. Personally I don't think I could possibly make a change like that in what sex I'm attracted to, and I think the same is true of most folks.

The choice is not impossible. I could be attracted to guys, even though I'm not and I think it's disgusting. The possibility exists, though it is not my cup of tea. Should I tell you of my female cousin who's gay, yet says she could choose to be straight if she wanted to?

Not arguing that you cannot choose the lifestyle. I'm arguing that who you are sexually attracted to is not a simple choice. I could go have an eleven guy orgy right now, but I couldn't make myself like it.

Oh, I could definitely choose, though I'm not interested in that, just as my female cousin who is gay told me she could choose to be straight. :shrug:

 

[CriticalThought]

What does female fecundity say about heterosexuality, CT? Oh I know.. NOTHING..


Tim-

Or everything. Genes can serve more than one function. Imagine if at one point in human evolution there were these genes that increased the number of offspring a female could have but the genes also resulted in some offspring developing a homosexual orientation. The genes would continue to exist because of the reproductive advantage that was gained even with some offspring turning out gay and not reproducing on their own.

 

[AClockworkGrape]

Also Wake, it's fine to have an opinion on a subject you really shouldn't have any concern with, but when you title a thread "Homosexuality is a choice" as if your knowledge on the subject is boundless and your evidence is concrete, whatever you state simply comes across as contrived.