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Homosexuality, Heterosexuality and the Choices in Between

Jek4141 said:
If you can feel confident in your walk, I won't dispute you. Do you hold that homosexuality is immoral?
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Homosexuality is the urges and attractions one has with regards to gender/sex. The temptations if you will. The desire to do anything will never be sin. It is the actions that count.

That being said, there is no one answer to any given action either, because intent and purpose also is important. Killing may or may not be sinful. If it is done to harm, or out of anger, it would be sinful, but out of self defense or defense of another it is not. And even then we will find different views on whether or why her or not the specific action fit the sinful criteria. Would killing a rapist, in cold blood not in the middle of a rape, actually be defense of others or not? Some will say yes and others no. Both can interpert the Bible such as to justify their view.

In the end, the Bible, God's Word or not, is still under the influence of man, and as such is potentially fallible. The best lie the devil could tell is that the Bible (and other scripture) is free from any possible corruption and then influance little changes over the centuries, as well as convince individuals to teach others lessons of hate, as we see in a lot of the more vocal and visible Christians today. If the Bible was infallible, the Adulterer's Bible could never have come into existence, even for the limited print numbers it had.

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maquiscat said:
Homosexuality is the urges and attractions one has with regards to gender/sex. The temptations if you will. The desire to do anything will never be sin. It is the actions that count.

That being said, there is no one answer to any given action either, because intent and purpose also is important. Killing may or may not be sinful. If it is done to harm, or out of anger, it would be sinful, but out of self defense or defense of another it is not. And even then we will find different views on whether or why her or not the specific action fit the sinful criteria. Would killing a rapist, in cold blood not in the middle of a rape, actually be defense of others or not? Some will say yes and others no. Both can interpert the Bible such as to justify their view.

In the end, the Bible, God's Word or not, is still under the influence of man, and as such is potentially fallible. The best lie the devil could tell is that the Bible (and other scripture) is free from any possible corruption and then influance little changes over the centuries, as well as convince individuals to teach others lessons of hate, as we see in a lot of the more vocal and visible Christians today. If the Bible was infallible, the Adulterer's Bible could never have come into existence, even for the limited print numbers it had.

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You are completely right in the first sentence. Homosexual desires are not sinful; acting on the desires is. I agree with you 100% on that
 
Jek4141 said:
You are completely right in the first sentence. Homosexual desires are not sinful; acting on the desires is. I agree with you 100% on that
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Then you need quit trying to call Homosexuality sinful, because that only addresses the desires.

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calamity said:
Ok, this is more or less a thread designed for mature discussion and some thought. Also, there is no need to directly answer some of the questions, but rather maybe just keep them in your head as you formulate an opinion.

Let me begin by saying that this topic has bothered me for decades as I struggle with the rules of heterosexual monogamy, marriage, and just general male-female related bull****. How much of a choice is acting on sexual impulses?

I can say this. I find it easier to resist urges now than I did 20 year ago when my hormones raged and impulse control took a back seat. Back then, if I saw someone I was attracted to, I almost always pursued it. And, if by some miracle I successfully managed to engage that person, it was usually impossible to resist breaking all the rules assumed in my other relationships. So, yeah. I would cheat, divorce, throw away fortunes, whatever to score that piece of ass. Today? Hell, some Victoria Secret model could probably walk by me stark naked and I wouldn't even get out of my chair.

So, I'm left wondering...how much of our sexual behavior is "choice."
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You can choose what to do about your feelings, you can't choose how you feel.

The real question, once we accept that we can't change our feelings, is what feelings need to be suppressed? The desire to rape? Obviously. The desire to have a consensual sexual relationship with an adult person of the same sex? Why is that necessary?
 
Cameron said:
You can choose what to do about your feelings, you can't choose how you feel.

The real question, once we accept that we can't change our feelings, is what feelings need to be suppressed? The desire to rape? Obviously. The desire to have a consensual sexual relationship with an adult person of the same sex? Why is that necessary?
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Yep, sexual behavior is a choice. And, it should not be an issue how we behave sexually in any consenting adult relationship.


I certainly do not believe consensual adult sex is a sin. Others do.

I do believe who and what we are attracted to is not a choice. However, obviously, if the things we are attracted to involve non-consensual sex, the urge must be suppressed.
 
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maquiscat said:
Homosexuality is the urges and attractions one has with regards to gender/sex. The temptations if you will. The desire to do anything will never be sin. It is the actions that count.

That being said, there is no one answer to any given action either, because intent and purpose also is important. Killing may or may not be sinful. If it is done to harm, or out of anger, it would be sinful, but out of self defense or defense of another it is not. And even then we will find different views on whether or why her or not the specific action fit the sinful criteria. Would killing a rapist, in cold blood not in the middle of a rape, actually be defense of others or not? Some will say yes and others no. Both can interpert the Bible such as to justify their view.

In the end, the Bible, God's Word or not, is still under the influence of man, and as such is potentially fallible. The best lie the devil could tell is that the Bible (and other scripture) is free from any possible corruption and then influance little changes over the centuries, as well as convince individuals to teach others lessons of hate, as we see in a lot of the more vocal and visible Christians today. If the Bible was infallible, the Adulterer's Bible could never have come into existence, even for the limited print numbers it had.

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According to scripture, that is not exactly true...Jesus himself said “Everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Matthew 5:28

The same can be said for any type of sexual sin or any sin for that matter...sin begins in the mind and heart...Jame 1:13-15...by refusing to dwell on adulterous/sexual fantasies, you can “safeguard your heart” and protect yourself from doing wrong...Proverbs 4:23

No, the best lie Satan could tell us is that there is no God, for those who don't accept that lie, he goes further to tell other people there are many gods...then there are the lies he tells about the True God...his lies never end...all other stories/books besides the Bible about God...no God, or other gods came into existence because of Satan...lies come from Satan...truth comes form God...
 
maquiscat said:
Then you need quit trying to call Homosexuality sinful, because that only addresses the desires.

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Will you feel better if I say homosexual activity? Because to me, that is what homosexuality is: the state of being homosexual and engaging in that activity.
 
Jek4141 said:
Because I know to trust my heavenly Father just as much as I do my earthly father.
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That reasoning is circular.. particularly if it's your folly. Wouldn't someone in their folly be as confident as you?
 
Jek4141 said:
Will you feel better if I say homosexual activity? Because to me, that is what homosexuality is: the state of being homosexual and engaging in that activity.
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Actually yes, because the difference in being homosexual, having the feelings and urges, and engaging in the activity, whether you have those feelings or not, are worlds apart

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Elvira said:
According to scripture, that is not exactly true...Jesus himself said “Everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Matthew 5:28

The same can be said for any type of sexual sin or any sin for that matter...sin begins in the mind and heart...Jame 1:13-15...by refusing to dwell on adulterous/sexual fantasies, you can “safeguard your heart” and protect yourself from doing wrong...Proverbs 4:23
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Choosing to contintondwelnupon thoughts, to contemplate them or plan or anything which consume time and effort is an act in and of itself. Not all acts are physical. However, thoughts that occur unbidden, or at random, feelings that occur instead of persued are not and this will never be sins.

That said, this is one of those points that feels more man made than Good made. Again, I will trust the Holy Spirit above any physical creation.

No, the best lie Satan could tell us is that there is no God, for those who don't accept that lie, he goes further to tell other people there are many gods...then there are the lies he tells about the True God...his lies never end...all other stories/books besides the Bible about God...no God, or other gods came into existence because of Satan...lies come from Satan...truth comes form God...
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Not really the best lie, because it's so obvious. Sure that would catch the easy prey, but do you think he would stop there? If I wanted to get the most people, give them enough of the truth that it is bloody close to the truth, but change those key points that will turn them away from God's turth. Look at WBC. That is a prime example of near truth with actually evil twists.

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maquiscat said:
Actually yes, because the difference in being homosexual, having the feelings and urges, and engaging in the activity, whether you have those feelings or not, are worlds apart

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Whatevs. Potato, potato
 
Jek4141 said:
Will you feel better if I say homosexual activity? Because to me, that is what homosexuality is: the state of being homosexual and engaging in that activity.
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Not true at all. Homosexuality is having an attraction to the same sex, not the act. One can be a homosexual and never had sex before, simply because they are attracted to the same sex. The act is irrelevant to whether someone is a homosexual or not.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
And not just alcohol either!
One of my girlfriends had a girlfriend who was OBSESSED with a guy down the street who really WAS an incredible looking dude.
I'm talking about - he looked like he walked out of some kind of magazine or something.
And gay as the day is long, too.
He wasn't affectated, he didn't do the limp wristed thing or talk with the gay voice, he was just gay gay ga-heyy. He liked MEN, and he liked to be FRIENDS with women.
My girlfriend's girlfriend couldn't take no for an answer, she had become friends with Mark and was now head over heels in love/lust with him and we invited him over to party and my girl made it clear that if she could pull it off and get that guy hot to trot, we'd sneak out and let her drag him into our bedroom and have her way with him, no questions asked.
And "girlfriend" and MY girl both had psychedelics, which he had hinted at before.
We pretended to pop the "green pyramids" but "girlfriend" took hers and "Mark" took his for REAL (we decided to save ours for after).
And sure enough, about forty five minutes later "girlfriend" and Mark were tripping their brains out and having a GOOD OLE TIME.
And "girlfriend" got Mark drunk so now Mark was drunk AND tripping, and "girlfriend" (who was pretty damn attractive) started taking her clothes off and gave us the high sign and we snuck out.

NOTHING DOING.

She managed to drag him into our bedroom and convince him to give her a nice massage, a nice backrub while she was naked but no matter what she did, he wasn't down for it. He hugged her, he rubbed her back, he brushed her hair. He didn't even react when she was literally throwing herself at him, just better hugs, that's all, and what finally became nervous laughter.
No reaction "down there" either...she couldn't believe it. She tried for almost an hour and a half and finally gave up.

At that time I too believed that gay guys chose to be gay, but after watching "Elaine" go to any length whatsoever to arouse that gay guy and not so much get even a twitch out of his man parts for 90 minutes, I finally realized that you can't make a gay guy get horny for women and vice versa unless they have a bit of bisexuality in them, and Mark definitely had never been with any women that way, and many had tried.
Mark was good humored about it, but Elaine was MORTIFIED, and totally confused for quite some time.
I'm not sure she ever totally forgave Mark either.
Poor Mark, he didn't do anything wrong, she just didn't have the right equipment!
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I've known some girls to go into absolute rages when they couldn't bed a gay guy. Turns out that some pretty women don't handle rejection very well. After a lifetime of getting their way and hardly even working for it, they tended to see gayness as a challenge that could be overcome. I've rarely seen it work.
 
calamity said:
No more selfish than a gay person hurting loved ones by coming out.


You have no idea what you are talking about.


Obviously you're not reading what was written. I clearly stated that 20 years ago I could not control my urges. Since I can today, obviously things have changed enough that my hormones are not "exactly where it was 20 years ago."
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Now you've stopped making sense. Coming out of the closet is not selfish any way you look at it. Cheating on a peson is selfish any way you look at it. That's actually an offensive comparison, but something tells me you're not going to understand that.
 
calamity said:
Same with banging some hottie. It has nothing to do with the person you're married to. Nothing at all.



agreed x 2
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That's only true if a couple mutually agrees that one or both of them can have sex outside the relationship. Otherwise, it's just cheating; and cheaters are ****ty people.
 
Jek4141 said:
Which includes the right to hypocrisy, I suppose.
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Well here we are devolving into just name calling.

Look just because your beliefs make sense to you doesn't mean other people have to share them. In syncing to this level of immaturity isn't really that interesting.
 
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