• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Hillary Presidency Would Be Like Dilma Rousseff's

sanman

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Messages
6,454
Reaction score
2,162
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
If Hillary were elected to the presidency, she'd barely squeak through at best, and hers would be a weak presidency dogged by scandal and tremendous unpopularity right from the start. We can see what happened in Brazil's recent elections, where the Left-wing Dilma Rousseff barely made it through to win the presidency, and we can see how fragile and scandal-ridden her govt was. Now it's predictably ended with her impeachment. What are the opinions on how a Clinton presidency would end? I think it would end just like Rousseff's.
 

Cyrylek

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
3,467
Reaction score
1,715
Location
Boston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
If Hillary were elected to the presidency, she'd barely squeak through at best, and hers would be a weak presidency dogged by scandal and tremendous unpopularity right from the start. We can see what happened in Brazil's recent elections, where the Left-wing Dilma Rousseff barely made it through to win the presidency, and we can see how fragile and scandal-ridden her govt was. Now it's predictably ended with her impeachment. What are the opinions on how a Clinton presidency would end? I think it would end just like Rousseff's.

Sounds great. Let's vote for her to prevent a Trump presidency, and hope that she will be indeed weak and incapable of ramming through any serious leftist agenda.
 

FieldTheorist

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
2,348
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
If Hillary were elected to the presidency, she'd barely squeak through at best, and hers would be a weak presidency dogged by scandal and tremendous unpopularity right from the start. We can see what happened in Brazil's recent elections, where the Left-wing Dilma Rousseff barely made it through to win the presidency, and we can see how fragile and scandal-ridden her govt was. Now it's predictably ended with her impeachment. What are the opinions on how a Clinton presidency would end? I think it would end just like Rousseff's.

Hillary isn't a Leftist. She's at best a Centrist, but more honestly she's economically a Rightist, on foreign policy she's a far Rightist, and socially she's a Left-Centrist (except when she wants to drum up female and minority votes, then she parrots Cornel West/Madaleine Albright as best as she can).
 

Howler63

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
1,899
Reaction score
553
Location
Just this side of senility.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Sounds great. Let's vote for her to prevent a Trump presidency, and hope that she will be indeed weak and incapable of ramming through any serious leftist agenda.

A weak Clinton would be preferable to a strong Trump?

I like the way you think.

But ONLY if we can get a strong Congress....this one is anything but.
 

reinoe

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
16,824
Reaction score
7,183
Location
Out West
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Sounds great. Let's vote for her to prevent a Trump presidency, and hope that she will be indeed weak and incapable of ramming through any serious leftist agenda.
That's a ridiculous notion. Both houses of Congress will bend over backwards to pass everything she wants. That's why she's far more dangerous than Trump.
 

Cyrylek

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
3,467
Reaction score
1,715
Location
Boston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
That's a ridiculous notion. Both houses of Congress will bend over backwards to pass everything she wants. That's why she's far more dangerous than Trump.

Why? You are assuming that there will be Democratic landslide in both houses?
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
108,703
Reaction score
53,063
Location
Bradenton Fla
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Hillary isn't a Leftist. She's at best a Centrist, but more honestly she's economically a Rightist, on foreign policy she's a far Rightist, and socially she's a Left-Centrist (except when she wants to drum up female and minority votes, then she parrots Cornel West/Madaleine Albright as best as she can).

On the economy she is rightist? Right of what, communism? Seriously, here is the economy page from her website, please explain which of these is rightist? https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/plan-raise-american-incomes/

Let's look at some of these rightist proposals...

Provide tax relief for families. Hillary will cut taxes for hard-working families to increase their take-home pay as they face rising costs from child care, health care, and sending their kids to college. She is calling for extending a tax cut of up to $2,500 per student to help deal with college costs as part of her New College Compact, and for cutting taxes for businesses that share profits with their employees.

Unleash small business growth. Hillary’s father owned a small business—and she understands that small businesses are the backbone of jobs and growth in America. She’s put forward a small-business agenda to expand access to capital, provide tax relief, cut red tape, and help small businesses bring their goods to new markets.

Create a New College Compact. Hillary’s New College Compact will invest $350 billion so that students do not have to borrow to pay tuition at a public college in their state. Her plan will also significantly cut interest rates on student loans and enable an estimated 25 million Americans with student debt to refinance at today’s lower rates, saving the typical borrower $2,000 over the life of their loans.

Boost public investment in infrastructure and scientific research. One of the best ways to drive jobs and improve our nation’s competitiveness is to invest in infrastructure and scientific research. Hillary has called for a national infrastructure bank that would leverage public and private funds to invest in projects across the country. She will call for reform that closes corporate tax loopholes and drives investment here, in the U.S. And she would increase funding for scientific research at agencies like the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation.

Lift up participation in the workforce—especially for women. For too long, issues like equal pay, paid leave, and affordable child care have been put off to the side as "women's issues." Hillary believes they are crucial to our competitiveness and growth—and to lifting incomes for working families.
 

BitterPill

Ignorance Is Virtue
DP Veteran
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
2,957
Reaction score
819
Location
SoCal
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
If Hillary were elected to the presidency, she'd barely squeak through at best, and hers would be a weak presidency dogged by scandal and tremendous unpopularity right from the start. We can see what happened in Brazil's recent elections, where the Left-wing Dilma Rousseff barely made it through to win the presidency, and we can see how fragile and scandal-ridden her govt was. Now it's predictably ended with her impeachment. What are the opinions on how a Clinton presidency would end? I think it would end just like Rousseff's.

I understand. It's because they are both women, so of course their presidencies will mirror each other.

That's called thinking stereotypically.
 

RabidAlpaca

Engineer
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
22,981
Reaction score
30,192
Location
American Refugee in Europe
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
108,703
Reaction score
53,063
Location
Bradenton Fla
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
I think it's cute that you think Hillary's actions have any correlation whatsoever to what she says or has her PR team put on her website.

So you think she is a rightist economically because you think it. Good job, well done!
 

Exquisitor

Educator
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
7,542
Reaction score
1,180
Location
UP of Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I think it's cute that you think Hillary's actions have any correlation whatsoever to what she says or has her PR team put on her website.

So you think she is a rightist economically because you think it. Good job, well done!

You People will go out and have faith in Obama, Sanders, Trump; oh, they're really going to do it for you, lets get violent and put all our passionate energy into the only solution... but try to have a little faith in your elected leader (be it Obama of Clinton) or send out a prayer, demand or instructions for her behavior and kaputs.
 

Frank Apisa

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
11,492
Reaction score
2,718
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
You People will go out and have faith in Obama, Sanders, Trump; oh, they're really going to do it for you, lets get violent and put all our passionate energy into the only solution... but try to have a little faith in your elected leader (be it Obama of Clinton) or send out a prayer, demand or instructions for her behavior and kaputs.

I think if we have any sense at all...no matter who is elected in November...the country should be hoping for a very successful administration.

I strongly support Hillary Clinton...but if Donald Trump were to beat her, I will have no trouble whatever hoping that he is able to get the congress working to set (keep) our house in order.
 

eohrnberger

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
49,556
Reaction score
32,499
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
If Hillary were elected to the presidency, she'd barely squeak through at best, and hers would be a weak presidency dogged by scandal and tremendous unpopularity right from the start. We can see what happened in Brazil's recent elections, where the Left-wing Dilma Rousseff barely made it through to win the presidency, and we can see how fragile and scandal-ridden her govt was. Now it's predictably ended with her impeachment. What are the opinions on how a Clinton presidency would end? I think it would end just like Rousseff's.

An interesting comparison, one that's pretty legitimate I think. Pretty clear the the electorate of both countries is most certainly fed up with the establishment politics in their respective countries, and yes, that applies to bo th political parties.

How's it going to end? Ohhh. O don't know for sure. Perhaps a scandal about how Hillary sold her office and it's influence for foreigner's contributions to the Clinton Foundation? (Oh wait, she already did that, didn't she?)
 

Ikari

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
83,153
Reaction score
51,929
Location
Colorado
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
If Hillary were elected to the presidency, she'd barely squeak through at best, and hers would be a weak presidency dogged by scandal and tremendous unpopularity right from the start. We can see what happened in Brazil's recent elections, where the Left-wing Dilma Rousseff barely made it through to win the presidency, and we can see how fragile and scandal-ridden her govt was. Now it's predictably ended with her impeachment. What are the opinions on how a Clinton presidency would end? I think it would end just like Rousseff's.

If Hillary is elected, her Presidency would be the same as Bush and Obama.
 

eohrnberger

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
49,556
Reaction score
32,499
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I think if we have any sense at all...no matter who is elected in November...the country should be hoping for a very successful administration.

I strongly support Hillary Clinton...but if Donald Trump were to beat her, I will have no trouble whatever hoping that he is able to get the congress working to set (keep) our house in order.

I'll grant you that you surprised me. In that short of a Hillary POTUS, you wish for a successful Trump administration. I can certainly support this.

And as a further thought, I congratulate you on this fairness Frank.
 
Last edited:

WCH

Believer
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
30,953
Reaction score
9,018
Location
The Lone Star State.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I think if we have any sense at all...no matter who is elected in November...the country should be hoping for a very successful administration.

I strongly support Hillary Clinton...but if Donald Trump were to beat her, I will have no trouble whatever hoping that he is able to get the congress working to set (keep) our house in order.

We all hope for the best for the country. If it fails so do we.
 

FieldTheorist

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
2,348
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
On the economy she is rightist? Right of what, communism? Seriously, here is the economy page from her website, please explain which of these is rightist? https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/plan-raise-american-incomes/

Let's look at some of these rightist proposals...

I think it's cute that you think Hillary's actions have any correlation whatsoever to what she says or has her PR team put on her website.

So you think she is a rightist economically because you think it. Good job, well done!

No, we think it because we know what policies she's supported in the past when she was the First Lady, what bills she voted for and supported while she was the Senator from New York, and because of the policies that she supported when she was Secretary of State. She has new campaign promises that diverge from previous policy positions she has held (e.g. Keystone XL and TPP). She's been a fervent advocate of the "Middle-way economics" that her husband lead with her complete approval 26 years ago, which is just yet another packaging for neoliberalism -that came with non-protectionist trade agreements, attacks on the welfare state, privatized prisons, deregulation (including the disastrous decision to repeal Glass-Steagall and the CFMA). When she was a Senator, she crucially voted for a bankruptcy bill that harms the middle and lower classes (A pretty conspicuous flip-flop that occurred immediately after she took boatloads of donations from lending agencies during her NY bid). Prior to all of that, when she served on the board of Wall-Mart, she was completely silent on any support for unions.


She's not Ted Cruz, Alan Greenspan, or Rand Paul, but that's not saying she's not very committed to the interests of the elite.
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
108,703
Reaction score
53,063
Location
Bradenton Fla
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
No, we think it because we know what policies she's supported in the past when she was the First Lady, what bills she voted for and supported while she was the Senator from New York, and because of the policies that she supported when she was Secretary of State. She has new campaign promises that diverge from previous policy positions she has held (e.g. Keystone XL and TPP). She's been a fervent advocate of the "Middle-way economics" that her husband lead with her complete approval 26 years ago, which is just yet another packaging for neoliberalism -that came with non-protectionist trade agreements, attacks on the welfare state, privatized prisons, deregulation (including the disastrous decision to repeal Glass-Steagall and the CFMA). When she was a Senator, she crucially voted for a bankruptcy bill that harms the middle and lower classes (A pretty conspicuous flip-flop that occurred immediately after she took boatloads of donations from lending agencies during her NY bid). Prior to all of that, when she served on the board of Wall-Mart, she was completely silent on any support for unions.


She's not Ted Cruz, Alan Greenspan, or Rand Paul, but that's not saying she's not very committed to the interests of the elite.

So you know it because of Bill Clinton, a single vote, and her job that had jack and **** to do with economics. Well that is convincing...

By the way, did you know that it was reported at the time that Hillary Clinton argues with Bill privately about NAFTA, with her being against it?
 

Fiddytree

Neocon Elitist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
29,961
Reaction score
17,358
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
I think there's a more than obvious appeal to this because they are both women, albeit they both have the tinge of distrust. The strength of the claim is in the discomfort of having a woman leader.

That being said, Its cute that left-wingers call Hillary a centrist while many of us are corralling toward her out of reluctance. A lot of us had much more in common with Webb than we ever did Clinton.
 

FieldTheorist

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
2,348
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
So you know it because of Bill Clinton, a single vote, and her job that had jack and **** to do with economics. Well that is convincing...

That's simply too disingenuous and oversimplified of a summary for me to take seriously. But yes, you're right, when taken as a whole including the parts you left out, it is convincing.

There's other issues, too, that I didn't mention, like that she thinks Dodd-Frank is a serious and essential piece of legislation but refuses to support a re-introduction of Glass-Steagall, which follows her generally don't-regulate-Wall Street perspective. She supported multiple free trade deals during her tenure as Senator (i.e. Singapore and Chile, which were in the interests of corporations). She was also conspicuously absent for some votes that were pretty important for the middle-class. I think she abstained from voting in every single consumer safety bill during her tenure in the Senate.

Then we get into the issues I raised about the TPP (which she essentially created) and Keystone XL.

By the way, did you know that it was reported at the time that Hillary Clinton argues with Bill privately about NAFTA, with her being against it?

Yes, I've heard the rumors. That does precious little for the millions of Americans out of work and the communities that have been devastated by these trade deals.
 

Exquisitor

Educator
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
7,542
Reaction score
1,180
Location
UP of Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Yes, I've heard the rumors. That does precious little for the millions of Americans out of work and the communities that have been devastated by these trade deals.

Why should the Government be meddling in trade deals?

Shouldn't the market take care of itself?
 

sanman

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Messages
6,454
Reaction score
2,162
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
I understand. It's because they are both women, so of course their presidencies will mirror each other.

That's called thinking stereotypically.

I didn't mention their gender - as far as I'm concerned, it's incidental - what you just did is called gender-baiting.

The similarities I mentioned were that they are both Leftists who would only squeak through their respective elections, leaving a large overwhelmingly disgruntled population, and who are both corrupt, which would make their tenures ineffective.
 

BitterPill

Ignorance Is Virtue
DP Veteran
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
2,957
Reaction score
819
Location
SoCal
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
I didn't mention their gender - as far as I'm concerned, it's incidental - what you just did is called gender-baiting.

You might be correct.

The similarities I mentioned were that they are both Leftists who would only squeak through their respective elections, leaving a large overwhelmingly disgruntled population, and who are both corrupt, which would make their tenures ineffective.

Hillary isn't really a leftist, her ties to Wall Street proof enough, and I'm not very familiar with Roussef, but to a hard-right reactionary, anyone to the left is a commie, no exceptions. Moving on, Hillary hasn't yet been elected president, so you can't claim she squeaked through the election. What if she wins in a landslide? Once (or if) she survives Sanders, that is a rather likely possibility after all.

Furthermore, there is a largely disgruntled population, fair enough, but that's hardly Hillary's fault. Hell, I'd put more of that blame at Beck's doorstep or Limbaugh's than Hillary's. Also, you claim corruption makes a tenure ineffective, but I don't really know what you mean. If you are saying Hillary being paid money for speaking at, for example, Goldman Saks is a form of corruption, I might agree, but many politicians do the same if given the opportunity, and that would make our system corrupt, not the individual politicians.

Lastly, there are a lot of politicians who have met political demise, and of them all you did you choose to compare Dilma to Hillary.

Why is that?
 

Abbazorkzog

Zapatista Libertarian
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
12,199
Reaction score
4,079
Location
#TrumpWasAnInsideJob
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
This is a good deal, she makes Bernie VP (or self-destructs and hands Trump the White House), and either dies of old age or is impeached.........the rest is history.

Or we can have Trump for 2017-2021 and President Warren for 2021-2029...
 
Top Bottom