• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Here's Why U.S. Tactical Nukes Are a Bad Idea.

Nit to pick.... There was a requirement for any person homesteading on Mexican land to convert to Catholicism. That and pay taxes.

And that I recognize. And that was only one of many issued that gave the people in Texas cause for alarm.

Many were afraid that with how volatile Santa Anna was, it could very easily turn into another "Spanish Inquisition". Where anybody the Government was unsure of would find themselves facing instant justice, especially since the General was essentially a dictator by that point who had thrown out the Supreme Court and suppressed the Congress. He could literally have rounded up any Anglos and accuse them of "False Conversion", just as had been done many times in the Inquisition.

And there would be no trial, no appeal, simply expulsion, imprisonment, or death.

And the citizens of Texas did not even protest when President Bustamante enacted the Laws of 1830 which prohibited Anglo immigration to Texas. Now granted the laws on immigration and prohibiting slavery were largely ignored, but the people of Texas did not talk about revolting because of those laws. However, what many did object to was the rescinding of the 10 year tax exemption that all Anglos agreed to when they became Mexican citizens in Texas. This exemption was in recognition that most of the Anglos that immigrated came in with a large amount of capitol already. Livestock, machinery, supplies, and cash to help settle the new frontier. Not unlike a tax exemption given today for a new business to start up in a community.

After less than 6 years that was thrown out (and taxes raised above the previous levels), which started to make the new Mexican citizens nervous about what their actual rights were.
 
I haven't read that article at VT in years, but I think it included some photos or reference to the unique differences between photos taken of a nuclear event with conventional film cameras, and photos taken with digital cameras. It turns out there is some sort of pixilation effect, and a nuclear event recorded on digital media has a distinct quality to it. People did take photos of the Battle of the Baghdad Airport, with digital cameras. By that standard a tactical nuke event was recorded.

All video recorded during that battle was shot with DV camcorders which are digital.
Show me the examples of news video pixelation because if it happened with digital still cameras due to pixelation it would by necessity happen as well with digital video.

Hint: You won't find any.
And pixelation happens under a very wide array of circumstances. A powerful (100 watts or more) two way radio in the vicinity of a digital camera will cause pixelation.

A nuclear event happening close enough to a digital camera to cause pixelation? There is an extremely fine line, which is not linear but rather, steeply logarithmic at which point EMP sufficient to cause pixelation will quickly cause the entire circuitry of the camera to fail entirely.

EMP is not a linear event at all, and neither are the effects.
 
All video recorded during that battle was shot with DV camcorders which are digital.
Show me the examples of news video pixelation because if it happened with digital still cameras due to pixelation it would by necessity happen as well with digital video.

Hint: You won't find any.
And pixelation happens under a very wide array of circumstances. A powerful (100 watts or more) two way radio in the vicinity of a digital camera will cause pixelation.

A nuclear event happening close enough to a digital camera to cause pixelation? There is an extremely fine line, which is not linear but rather, steeply logarithmic at which point EMP sufficient to cause pixelation will quickly cause the entire circuitry of the camera to fail entirely.

EMP is not a linear event at all, and neither are the effects.

Never mind T72... He believes in non radioactive Nukes that have no actual fallout and lack the EMP one would expect. A nuke powerful enough to destroy the foundation of a building yet not blow out nearby windows. A nuke that can go off and yet no one nearby suffered immediate radiation poisoning.
 
Never mind T72... He believes in non radioactive Nukes that have no actual fallout and lack the EMP one would expect. A nuke powerful enough to destroy the foundation of a building yet not blow out nearby windows. A nuke that can go off and yet no one nearby suffered immediate radiation poisoning.

If I had a dollar for every report that "tactical nukes" were used somewhere in a recent conflagration, it might rise to the number of dollars I would have for every fake Navy SEAL I've ever met, which is a large number. Either way, I'd be rolling in piles of money.

There's some kind of fractured twisted equation in there somewhere, like "x=# of fake Navy SEALS/# of fake tactical nukes" but I don't know how to write it out in algebraic notation. I unfortunately did not inherit my nuclear physicist father's brains, I inherited my mother's creative brains.

But I do know this: Neutron bombs also yield significant EMP along with the neutrons, and if you're close enough to Baghdad Airport to even see the airport itself and the aircraft during a tactical nuke strike, you and your photographic equipment will be toast.
It is most likely that any so called pixelation that occurred was caused by radio communications gear.
 
Something like 40% of the Texian Army immigrated there from the US after the fighting started.... Sam Houston was a protege of Andrew Jackson. If you don't think the US was playing a "hidden hand" in Texas and was an entirely disinterested party, then you're kidding yourself.

Yes, but they were not sent by the Government itself.

No, these were volunteers, individuals who decided to make this journey on their own. Many even started out before the war broke out, because they felt they had nothing left in the US worth staying for.

Individuals like Davy Crockett. Who was defeated for reelection in 1835, and was a well known opponent of President Jackson. Who famously said upon his defeat "I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not, they might go to hell, and I would go to Texas."

And along the way gathered up 30 more volunteers in Tennessee. Among them were the McCulloch brothers, neighbors of his in Tennessee. And they and the rest of the volunteers agreed to join the revolution, because they were promised 4,600 acres of land each (over 7 square miles). That is the reason why so many flocked to support Texas in the Revolution. All of the volunteers who went there from the US were offered extensive land grants. And those that served more than 3 months after 1935 were granted an additional 1,280 acres (total of 9.1 square miles). In all, over 1.3 million acres of land (2,000 square miles) was given to veterans of the Revolution.

No, there was no "US Government" involvement in the war. They largely had no interest in the conflict. But thousands of citizens flocked to the area because of the land bounties offered.

To make a comparison, consider one of the most well known Land Rushes in US history, that of Oklahoma. Where over 50,000 people traveled in the hopes of buying 160 acres each. And in a similar land rush in Oregon, settlers could make claims of up to 640 acres, which they bought at $1.25 an acre. But here was the new Republic of Texas, offering monumental land grants (almost 1,000 times larger) free of charge for simply going there to fight for them.

If people were willing to travel to Oklahoma or across the entire Continent to Oregon for 160-640 acres, it is not hard to imagine what people would have done in order to claim 4,600-5,880 acres.

Yes, people did indeed flood in from the US to fight. But for land. That is why between the time of the Revolution to 1850, the population soared from around 30,000 to over 200,000. Instead of returning home after the Revolution was won, those soldiers remained, as Texas citizens. If they were simply "US soldiers going to Texas" then they would have simply packed up and gone home after the war was won.

And finally, this was not even the first revolution in Texas. There was the earlier Fredonian Revolution in 1826 (just after the land grants to Anglos started, and 5 years after the Mexican Revolution). But this attempt ended in utter failure. The leaders offered no land for those who would fight for them, and not only did few come to their call for aid, most outright rejected them. In fact, Stephen Austin (the "Father of Texas") was approached to join and he soundly refused, stating that they were "deluding yourselves and this delusion will ruin you." And when Mexican authorities questioned Mr. Austin, he not only made an announcement that "infatuated madmen at Nacogdoches have declared independence." He then raised a militia force of over 250 colonists to assist the Mexican Army in putting down the revolt.

I think you are missing some huge sections of both the history of the Texas Revolution, as well as the precursors that led to the revolution itself. Things that helped drive individuals like Stephen Austin to go from a loyal citizen of Mexico who actually raised soldiers to fight against an earlier Anglo revolution, to the leading founder that ultimately led the successful revolution a decade later.

It is the same kind of action that causes a highly decorated Colonel in the Colonial Militia to take up arms as the Commanding General of all American Forces in the US Revolutionary War. Because what happened in Mexico is not incredibly unlike what happened in the English Colonies that caused them to revolt. Something that was not present in 1826.
 
Most Texians wanted to separate from Mexico in 1835....the US - having a cultural affinity for the Texian rebels, and viewing the region within it's sphere of influence - had a vested interest in Texan independence. Now let's say that Spain came to Mexico's assistance in the conflict and helped to crush the Texian revolt. How well do you figure that would have played in the US?

Replace Mexico with the Ukraine and Texas with the Donbass and you essentially have the situation there today, do you not?

Nothing wrong in using a hypothetical in an analogy, but history already provides an example. Say the Sudetenland wanted to unite with Nazi Germany, and Nazi Germany had partially invaded it and is supplying them mercenaries, soldiers, tanks, artillery and munitions to that end, and all the allies came to Checkoslovkia's assistance, how well would that have played in Nazi Germany?

Replace Nazi Germany with Putin's Russian Dictatorship, Ukraine with Czechoslovakia, and the Sudetenland with the Donbass and the Crimea and you essentially have the same situation there today, do you not?

Should we care how that would have played in Nazi Germany, other than to hope they got the message? F*** with the sovereignty of another state, if that state has allies you might want to cease the F***ing.
 
Last edited:
Replace Nazi Germany with Putin's Russian Dictatorship, Ukraine with Czechoslovakia, and the Sudetenland with the Donbass and the Crimea and you essentially have the same situation there today, do you not?

No, you do not. Not even close.

Other than maybe the Leader who took over said land making promises that there would be no further territorial demands. Which I believe coming out of Russia and Putin about as much as those words when uttered by Der Paper Hangar.
 
All video recorded during that battle was shot with DV camcorders which are digital.
Show me the examples of news video pixelation because if it happened with digital still cameras due to pixelation it would by necessity happen as well with digital video.

Hint: You won't find any.
And pixelation happens under a very wide array of circumstances. A powerful (100 watts or more) two way radio in the vicinity of a digital camera will cause pixelation.

A nuclear event happening close enough to a digital camera to cause pixelation? There is an extremely fine line, which is not linear but rather, steeply logarithmic at which point EMP sufficient to cause pixelation will quickly cause the entire circuitry of the camera to fail entirely.

EMP is not a linear event at all, and neither are the effects.[/QUOTE


Try this link to VT. Jeff Smith has the nuclear credentials. If you search Jeff Smith at VT you will find many articles. I've been reading many of his articles for quite some time, and find him credible.

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/15/vt-nuclear-education-nukes-in-iraq-confirmation/

Nuclear education is what it's all about.

The larger point is that the US has already and many times used tactical nuclear weapons. Israel too.

There are so many articles on the subject, and I hope the matter of pixilation is treated in one you might find.
 
No, you do not. Not even close.

Other than maybe the Leader who took over said land making promises that there would be no further territorial demands. Which I believe coming out of Russia and Putin about as much as those words when uttered by Der Paper Hangar.

If not believing Russia and Putin no more than one should have believed Hitler, then the analogy served its purpose. I agree, Putin is not to be believed.
 
Nothing wrong in using a hypothetical in an analogy, but history already provides an example. Say the Sudetenland wanted to unite with Nazi Germany, and Nazi Germany had partially invaded it and is supplying them mercenaries, soldiers, tanks, artillery and munitions to that end, and all the allies came to Checkoslovkia's assistance, how well would that have played in Nazi Germany?

Replace Nazi Germany with Putin's Russian Dictatorship, Ukraine with Czechoslovakia, and the Sudetenland with the Donbass and the Crimea and you essentially have the same situation there today, do you not?

Should we care how that would have played in Nazi Germany, other than to hope they got the message? F*** with the sovereignty of another state, if that state has allies you might want to cease the F***ing.

I don't think the Sudetenland example holds up, though, Max. Back in 1938, the West essentially threw Czechoslovakia under the bus to try and avoid a war with Germany. We haven't done that to the Ukranian Government... we've supported them with military aid, etc. in their fight with the Donbass rebels. If we had walked away and just let another pro-Russian Government come into power in Kiev, then I'd agree with your analogy. But it's a different kettle of fish there now... we're not telling the Ukranians what to do... we're following their lead and giving them pretty much whatever support they request. What else would you have us do?
 
Yes, but they were not sent by the Government itself.

No, these were volunteers, individuals who decided to make this journey on their own. Many even started out before the war broke out, because they felt they had nothing left in the US worth staying for.

Individuals like Davy Crockett. Who was defeated for reelection in 1835, and was a well known opponent of President Jackson. Who famously said upon his defeat "I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not, they might go to hell, and I would go to Texas."

Here's how I would characterize the position of President Jackson... he didn't want to actively intervene in the Texas Revolution, but he wasn't exactly "neutral" about the outcome either. I'd suggest that any cause which enlisted the efforts of such divergent people as Sam Houston (vigorously pro-Jackson) and Davy Crockett (vigorously anti-Jackson) would have enjoyed broad bipartisan support within the US. When news of the Alamo (and Travis' last message) and the Goliad Massacre reached the US, it would only have enflamed passions further. Now if one of the major powers of Europe - say, for example, Spain - saw fit to intervene on Mexico's side, and threw gas on a fire which was already white hot, Jackson would have been forced to invoke the Monroe Doctrine and actively intervene on behalf of the Texian separatists.
 
You have an ex?

I was thinking incel.

It was but an assumption.

But fitting given your need to try and to get the last word.

Your responses are getting more and more pathetic.

Here's a little piece for you... next time you feel the need to try to get into a battle of wits with someone, try sharpening your blade beforehand. Because it's pretty dull.
 
Your responses are getting more and more pathetic.

Here's a little piece for you... next time you feel the need to try to get into a battle of wits with someone, try sharpening your blade beforehand. Because it's pretty dull.

Aww, look.

Someone engaging in third grade insults...

Speaking of pathetic.
 
Aww, look.

Someone engaging in third grade insults...

Speaking of pathetic.

Have a look around, man. Here we are on Page 10 of this thread and so far as I can tell, you haven't contributed anything remotely having to do with the conversation since about Page 3.... so what are you even doing here? To me, you're just some voice from the peanut gallery looking for attention. About 90% of your posts have been to try and get a rise out of me over something that never even had to do with you in the first place. Who cares?

Look, you're probably going to laugh this off... but I've dealt with people like you a thousand times before - you've got some obvious low self-esteem issues. Deny it all you want, but deep down inside you know the truth. People who try and tear other people down to make themselves feel better are usually operating off some kind of childhood abuse... be it emotional, physical or sexual. I don't know, and frankly, I don't care what's at the root of your issues. But I do know that's why you go out looking to start fights and stir up drama - either you win and you can pass on the humiliation to someone else.... or you lose and end up getting humiliated yourself... which is actually what you subconsciously want - and because of your low self-esteem - you feel you deserve. It's what you were conditioned to expect.

But actually, you deserve better than that... not only you, but the people around you deserve better too. Whether you realize it or not, you're just perpetuating the cycle and abusing them as well. Seriously, get some professional help - it'll make your life a lot better. Recognizing the problem is the first step in curing it.

That's it... I've said my piece. I've done my PSA for mental health. Take it however you want. I give you your important "last word" if you want it... but from here on out I'm going to aggressively ignore the crap out of you until you actually contribute something worth responding to. I do truly wish you the best of luck with the life thing.
 
Have a look around, man. Here we are on Page 10 of this thread and so far as I can tell, you haven't contributed anything remotely having to do with the conversation since about Page 3.... so what are you even doing here? To me, you're just some voice from the peanut gallery looking for attention. About 90% of your posts have been to try and get a rise out of me over something that never even had to do with you in the first place. Who cares?

Look, you're probably going to laugh this off... but I've dealt with people like you a thousand times before - you've got some obvious low self-esteem issues. Deny it all you want, but deep down inside you know the truth. People who try and tear other people down to make themselves feel better are usually operating off some kind of childhood abuse... be it emotional, physical or sexual. I don't know, and frankly, I don't care what's at the root of your issues. But I do know that's why you go out looking to start fights and stir up drama - either you win and you can pass on the humiliation to someone else.... or you lose and end up getting humiliated yourself... which is actually what you subconsciously want - and because of your low self-esteem - you feel you deserve. It's what you were conditioned to expect.

But actually, you deserve better than that... not only you, but the people around you deserve better too. Whether you realize it or not, you're just perpetuating the cycle and abusing them as well. Seriously, get some professional help - it'll make your life a lot better. Recognizing the problem is the first step in curing it.

That's it... I've said my piece. I've done my PSA for mental health. Take it however you want. I give you your important "last word" if you want it... but from here on out I'm going to aggressively ignore the crap out of you until you actually contribute something worth responding to. I do truly wish you the best of luck with the life thing.

All that typing when you could have simply disengaged after your ill advised ASSumption-fest.

Tl;dr;dc
 
Jackson would have been forced to invoke the Monroe Doctrine and actively intervene on behalf of the Texian separatists.

While most of your argument was nonsense, this is where it goes completely off the rails into idiocy.

The President invoke the Monroe Doctrine over Texas?

OK, are you completely insane, not comprehend what you are actually talking about, or simply do not give a frack?

OK, let me break this down into as stupid-simple of a manner as I can. In fact, let me actually quote from the doctrine itself:

With the existing colonies or dependencies of any European power, we have not interfered and shall not interfere. But with the Governments who have declared their independence and maintained it, and whose independence we have, on great consideration and on just principles, acknowledged, we could not view any interposition for the purpose of oppressing them, or controlling in any other manner their destiny, by any European power in any other light than as the manifestation of an unfriendly disposition toward the United States.

Now notice the key words I highlighted. European power.

Mexico was not a European power. Therefore that doctrine does not even apply in any ways.

And like that incredible failure to comprehend or explain actual history, the rest of your weak argument is flushed along with that. Because unless the Texas Revolution had happened under the rule of Emperor Maximilian I of Mexico, there is absolutely no way that doctrine would have ever applied.

In which the US actually did get involved, by the way. During the reign of Emperor Maximilian I, the US supported both Benito Juarez, as well as Porfirio Diaz in opposition. Quite a few large shipments destined for Fort Bliss somehow came up "missing or unaccounted for", and ended up in the hands of Mexican Nationalists opposed to the Emperor.

But come on now, the Monroe Doctrine, in reference to a conflict entirely within opponents in the North American Continent with no European influence?

Yea, completely and unequivocally ignored as completely irrelevant in any way, shape, or form.

Please, try harder next time. Try to quote and explain with actual facts, and not simply try to make things up as you go along.
 
Aww, look.

Someone engaging in third grade insults...

Speaking of pathetic.

This is why I am more and more considering leaving this forum. The actual debate is about tactical nukes, but somehow we have gone completely off the rails, with somebody with almost no comprehension of actual history going on and on and failing at almost every turn because of what they think. Instead of actually bothering to research anything.

I have almost always ignored the political arenas here, and stuck to things like history, science, and military. Where actual politics should matter very little, and largely it is facts that should matter. But more and more I am finding that petty political individuals keep crawling down here, and it is not longer anywhere near as enjoyable as it was when I started.

Mostly, what I find is that the level of debate (not argument) has declined more and more every year. No references, or people taking things so badly out of context it is completely laughable. And if they are unable to back up their claims, they then drag the discussion into something else where it is soon obvious that they know even less than the original topic.
 
While most of your argument was nonsense, this is where it goes completely off the rails into idiocy.

The President invoke the Monroe Doctrine over Texas?

OK, are you completely insane, not comprehend what you are actually talking about, or simply do not give a frack?

OK, let me break this down into as stupid-simple of a manner as I can. In fact, let me actually quote from the doctrine itself:



Now notice the key words I highlighted. European power.

Mexico was not a European power. Therefore that doctrine does not even apply in any ways.

And like that incredible failure to comprehend or explain actual history, the rest of your weak argument is flushed along with that. Because unless the Texas Revolution had happened under the rule of Emperor Maximilian I of Mexico, there is absolutely no way that doctrine would have ever applied.

In which the US actually did get involved, by the way. During the reign of Emperor Maximilian I, the US supported both Benito Juarez, as well as Porfirio Diaz in opposition. Quite a few large shipments destined for Fort Bliss somehow came up "missing or unaccounted for", and ended up in the hands of Mexican Nationalists opposed to the Emperor.

But come on now, the Monroe Doctrine, in reference to a conflict entirely within opponents in the North American Continent with no European influence?

Yea, completely and unequivocally ignored as completely irrelevant in any way, shape, or form.

Please, try harder next time. Try to quote and explain with actual facts, and not simply try to make things up as you go along.

Try to keep up here, Ooz... The only reason I brought up the Texas Revolution in the first place (see post #67) was to draw an analogy to the Ukrainian conflict. Having the US become an active participant in that conflict - as Max seems to be suggesting - would force Russia's hand... as, indeed, a Spanish intervention in the Texas Revolution would have forced President Jackson's hand.
 
Back
Top Bottom