Health Care Question

[reefedjib]

Which community? There are starving people right now that you could feed with your table scraps. Get your ethics straight before you attempt to steal someone's money, then rationalize it.

It's not stealing someone's money. It is your investment into your community. I mean the county you live in, not LA County. These federal programs suck and all entitlements should be local.

My ethics are straight, buddy. :2wave:

 

[reefedjib]

So why is it that insurance companies are prevented from doing business across state lines anyway? Seems stupid to me. More unnecessary regulation.

 

[Mach]

It's not stealing someone's money. It is your investment into your community. I mean the county you live in, not LA County. These federal programs suck and all entitlements should be local.
My ethics are straight, buddy. :2wave:

Local vs federal, the ethics don't change though. If I want more wealthy neighbors I *move*, I don't expect it to be OK for them to take money from others, so that I can enjoy having wealthier neighbors. I do like some governmental services, but there are also examples of most any of them that are run privately in other countries (European countries).

 

[Deuce]

Buddy, invest in whatever you want. But forcing people who work, while you attend school, to invest in you, smacks of *bad*. Your parents better cover you until you get on your feet. Then it's up to you...not me.

You already pay for the healthcare of others. We're going in circles!

 

[reefedjib]

Local vs federal, the ethics don't change though. If I want more wealthy neighbors I *move*, I don't expect it to be OK for them to take money from others, so that I can enjoy having wealthier neighbors. I do like some governmental services, but there are also examples of most any of them that are run privately in other countries (European countries).

Whatever, it's not stealing it is taxes for services. Whether that is education or transportation or healthcare doesn't matter. They are community services.

Now in the case of healthcare, we have certain people who need care and cannot get it on the private market. These are the poor, the old and the sick. These people should receive community healthcare. It's a community service and everyone in the community should help pay.

I have yet to see a privately run insurance system that will pay for the poor, the old and the sick.

Have you read my proposal: http://vawhigs.org/dp/County Cooperatives.pdf?

 

[Deuce]

This federal vs. local thing just goes round and round. Local-based UHC is fine by me, I just think county- or city-based would be inefficient. State would work, I believe federal would be more efficient but obviously some of you disagree. Neither of those are making it through congress any time soon. President Obama, despite the rhetoric, is not a socialist and neither is the Democratic party. The Democrats couldn't get 51 votes for the public option done via reconciliation. Single-payer never even made it out of initial committee. Even our so-called Socialist President has often said that single-payer is just too big a change for America to make. "If it were done from the ground-up, from the start, maybe it would work" is hardly the line of a Marxist.

So new topic.

What do we do about the pre-existing condition and rescission problem?

Do we ban discrimination for reason of a pre-existing condition and force health insurance companies to take those customers?

 

[reefedjib]

rescission problem?

What's that?

 

[Deuce]

What's that?

Rescission is when your contract gets dissolved. Related to healthcare, this is the term for when your health insurance company simply drops your policy after you get sick. There are people who pay premiums for years without filing any claims, only to have a claim denied and the policy dropped when they get leukemia.

$*(3'd up if you ask me.

 

[reefedjib]

Rescission is when your contract gets dissolved. Related to healthcare, this is the term for when your health insurance company simply drops your policy after you get sick. There are people who pay premiums for years without filing any claims, only to have a claim denied and the policy dropped when they get leukemia.

$*(3'd up if you ask me.

Ahhh, yeah, I've heard of that bull****. My plan would care for those people.

If that happens, the insurance company should be required to pay back all premiums plus interest.

 

[ptif219]

How do the ratings or anything else amount to government control or government-run healthcare?

And how would you make it any better for your son?

The problem is the government does the same as insurance there is no difference. The rich get the best health care and the poor get craped on.


Nothing being proposed will help the poor.

No dental for my son I have to pay for it. Without me his teeth would rot in his head.

The elderly have to pay for their hearing aids. None of this will change. You are deceived if you think health care will be better government run.

 

[ptif219]

Well, to put a finer point on it, hospitals and doctors most certainly do turn away people who cannot afford to pay in many cases. Emergency rooms don't (they legally can't) - and we end up paying for that anyway. And of course we pay alot more, because waiting until you are really sick and then going to the ER is a really inefficient and ineffective way to go about caring for everyone.

We pay anyway now, it would be cheaper to just buy people insurance instead.

You mean like Michele Obama?

 

[misterman]

The problem is the government does the same as insurance there is no difference. The rich get the best health care and the poor get craped on.


Nothing being proposed will help the poor.

No dental for my son I have to pay for it. Without me his teeth would rot in his head.

The elderly have to pay for their hearing aids. None of this will change. You are deceived if you think health care will be better government run.

How many times are you going to talk about government-run healthcare when I'm not proposing it and neither is Obama?

 

[misterman]

You mean like Michele Obama?

Gosh, do you have another false rightwing internet rumor that's already been debunked to share with us?

 

[ptif219]

How many times are you going to talk about government-run healthcare when I'm not proposing it and neither is Obama?

Watch and see.

It will be tweaked over the next few years and we will have a public option.

 

[ptif219]

Gosh, do you have another false rightwing internet rumor that's already been debunked to share with us?

She was on the board of a university hospital that turned away the poor.

This shows how the poor will be treated in a Obama health care plan.

 

[misterman]

Watch and see.

It will be tweaked over the next few years and we will have a public option.

So? Key word is "option."

And anyone can go predicting stuff. Anything can be tweaked.

 

[misterman]

She was on the board of a university hospital that turned away the poor.

Yep, another silly debunked internet rumor.

This was a program that helped poor people find doctors instead of flooding ERs. It didn't turn anyone away.

Of course, private insurers and hospitals nationwide routinely turn away the poor, but that doesn't seem to bother you.

This shows how the poor will be treated in a Obama health care plan.

No it doesn't. Please leave the teabagger silliness out of this.

 

[Cassandra]

So new topic.

What do we do about the pre-existing condition and rescission problem?

Do we ban discrimination for reason of a pre-existing condition and force health insurance companies to take those customers?

Maine has the guarantee issue law. It is a problem unless it goes with a law that says that Health insurance is mandatory. Reasonably comprehensive family health insurance in the individual market in Maine costs $25,000 and up. The mean family income is about $50,000. Anthem (the only game in town) is asking for another 20% rate hike this year. Olympia Snowe is the only Republican who might cooperate on H.C. reform because Mainers may boot her out of office if she does not.

 

[Conservative]

Maine has the guarantee issue law. It is a problem unless it goes with a law that says that Health insurance is mandatory. Reasonably comprehensive family health insurance in the individual market in Maine costs $25,000 and up. The mean family income is about $50,000. Anthem (the only game in town) is asking for another 20% rate hike this year. Olympia Snowe is the only Republican who might cooperate on H.C. reform because Mainers may boot her out of office if she does not.

Have you figured out yet why businesses do not want to operate in the state of Maine and what your state is doing to prevent insurance companies from coming into the state?

Looks to me like you have a state problem, not a true healthcare problem. If there is only ONE insurance company in the state to choose from then that is a problem and you have to ask why?

Why should the people of other states pay for the problems you have in Maine? That is exactly what you are asking for in wanting universal healthcare or even the healthcare bills now being debated?

 

[Deuce]

Maine has the guarantee issue law. It is a problem unless it goes with a law that says that Health insurance is mandatory. Reasonably comprehensive family health insurance in the individual market in Maine costs $25,000 and up. The mean family income is about $50,000. Anthem (the only game in town) is asking for another 20% rate hike this year. Olympia Snowe is the only Republican who might cooperate on H.C. reform because Mainers may boot her out of office if she does not.

And therein lies the problem.

You can't force health insurance companies to take customers with pre-existing conditions because they are guaranteed to lose money on them. Worse, a guy like me might just decide not to buy health insurance until I get sick. Then I hop on with Aetna and they get stuck with a huge bill, but I've never paid premiums. They'd have to make up for this by jacking up the premiums of everyone else.

The solution to THAT is mandating everyone purchase health insurance, to give those companies more health customers to make up for the unhealthy ones, and to make sure nobody is abusing the system by not buying insurance until they need it.

But THIS just gives us the problem that the poor can't afford insurance whether you mandate it or not, so you have to then subsidize their health insurance premiums somehow or provide an exemption.

It starts to get pretty complicated, and this is why the HCR bill ended up close to 2000 pages long

 

[BWG]

So why is it that insurance companies are prevented from doing business across state lines anyway? Seems stupid to me. More unnecessary regulation.

Nothing stops insurance companies from selling insurance across state lines. They just have to abide by each states rules and regulations. Should be right up conservatives alley, states rights and all that.

 

[ptif219]

So? Key word is "option."

And anyone can go predicting stuff. Anything can be tweaked.

Watch the meeting Obama called you will see Obama will not compromise and will demand the GOP compromise. Bi-partisan to Obama is the GOP doing what he says.

Once the bill is done Obama will try to change it before 2012 and use the same tactics.

 

[ptif219]

Yep, another silly debunked internet rumor.

This was a program that helped poor people find doctors instead of flooding ERs. It didn't turn anyone away.

Of course, private insurers and hospitals nationwide routinely turn away the poor, but that doesn't seem to bother you.



No it doesn't. Please leave the teabagger silliness out of this.

In you mind, They turn away the poor.This is what healthcare will be. The poor will still get substandard care and the elite will get the best. Nothing changes with Obamacare.

 

[Deuce]

In you mind, They turn away the poor.This is what healthcare will be. The poor will still get substandard care and the elite will get the best. Nothing changes with Obamacare.

Single-payer will fix that! :mrgreen:

 

[ptif219]

Single-payer will fix that! :mrgreen:

No it won't the Obama's have shown the poor are not important when she worked at the university hospital in Chicago.