Has anyone else come out today? (10/11)

[Andalublue]

I don't think I mentioned the Phelps family

I was using them as an example of a very tiny minority opinion.

I laugh at and pity them. Then go on with my life. They are irrelevant. Meaningless.

I wish that were always possible, but queer bashers have a tendency to not allow you to ignore or patronise them.
BBC NEWS | UK | Gay man's killing 'tip of the iceberg'

I have no issue with freedom of speech.

You don't seriously equate queer baqshing with freedom of speech, do you?

You are correct with adoption, however, aren't those agencies private?

They may be where you live. In many places they are managed by government agencies or government-funded agencies.

 

[Andalublue]

Do you seriously want her to answer that question? :lol:

S'okay, I can handle it. I've been called smelly and fragrant before. Knock yourself out, Spiky!

 

[OscarB63]

They may be where you live. In many places they are managed by government agencies or government-funded agencies.

and in those places they fall under the anti-discrimination laws. those agencies can no more deny gays an adoption than they can a black, hispanic, or any other minority.

 

[Andalublue]

and in those places they fall under the anti-discrimination laws. those agencies can no more deny gays an adoption than they can a black, hispanic, or any other minority.

Again, that may be the case where you live, but that is not the case everywhere. Here in Spain, whilst government operated adoption schemes conform with anti-discrimination legislation, the Catholic agencies, although receiving money from public funds, has an exemption that permits them to discriminate not only against gay adopters, but also against previously divorced people and single people.

 

[OscarB63]

Again, that may be the case where you live, but that is not the case everywhere. Here in Spain, whilst government operated adoption schemes conform with anti-discrimination legislation, the Catholic agencies, although receiving money from public funds, has an exemption that permits them to discriminate not only against gay adopters, but also against previously divorced people and single people.

gee, and I thought the US was the backwards ass homophobe bigot/racist capital of the world. :lamo

 

[Mustachio]

It's National Coming Out Day. Has anyone else taken the plunge?

I have. It feel good, man. If you're LGBT, there's no time like the present.

A few days late, but CONGRATULATIONS!!!! My brother is gay although he's still in the closet. He's never told anybody in my family and I doubt he ever will. It makes me really sad, because every time I see him, the simple fact that we've never talked about it creates this tension stemming from the possibility -- in his mind -- that I disapprove, or we as a family disapprove. And nothing could be further from the truth. Anyway, kudos to you and I'm sure it took a lot of guts to come out, but hopefully your life will improve and your loved ones will be understanding and respectful.

 

[Andalublue]

gee, and I thought the US was the backwards ass homophobe bigot/racist capital of the world. :lamo

You should get out more.

 

[jallman]

A few days late, but CONGRATULATIONS!!!! My brother is gay although he's still in the closet. He's never told anybody in my family and I doubt he ever will. It makes me really sad, because every time I see him, the simple fact that we've never talked about it creates this tension stemming from the possibility -- in his mind -- that I disapprove, or we as a family disapprove. And nothing could be further from the truth. Anyway, kudos to you and I'm sure it took a lot of guts to come out, but hopefully your life will improve and your loved ones will be understanding and respectful.

Just out of curiosity...why don't you just come out and say that you are accepting of him?

 

[Laila]

A few days late, but CONGRATULATIONS!!!! My brother is gay although he's still in the closet. He's never told anybody in my family and I doubt he ever will. It makes me really sad, because every time I see him, the simple fact that we've never talked about it creates this tension stemming from the possibility -- in his mind -- that I disapprove, or we as a family disapprove. And nothing could be further from the truth. Anyway, kudos to you and I'm sure it took a lot of guts to come out, but hopefully your life will improve and your loved ones will be understanding and respectful.

Yeah I'm late as well but congratz =)

Your brother's situation is very similar to that of me and my cousin, who I know is gay but will never admit it to our family and especially me. I can understand why but as you say, there is always that underlying tension.
Why don't you just tell him that you accept him for whoever he is?

 

[rivrrat]

I was using them as an example of a very tiny minority opinion.

And they are indeed part of that minority.

I wish that were always possible, but queer bashers have a tendency to not allow you to ignore or patronise them.
BBC NEWS | UK | Gay man's killing 'tip of the iceberg'

You said "bashers" not murderers. As for violent people, deal with the same way everyone else deals with them.

You don't seriously equate queer baqshing with freedom of speech, do you?

Absolutely. Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. Assholes have just as much a right to speak their opinion as everyone else. That's how freedom rolls.

They may be where you live. In many places they are managed by government agencies or government-funded agencies.

Well if they are govt agencies then they would of course fall under the unequal legal treatment umbrella.

 

[Andalublue]

You said "bashers" not murderers.

Okay, we seem to have a problem in translation. Over here, To Bash means to hit, i.e. the use of violence. Clearly you merely associate it with attacking verbally or in writing. To me (and in common parlance in Britain/Ireland) Queer Bashing is the physical assault on a person because of their real or perceived homosexuality.

 

[rivrrat]

Okay, we seem to have a problem in translation. Over here, To Bash means to hit, i.e. the use of violence. Clearly you merely associate it with attacking verbally or in writing. To me (and in common parlance in Britain/Ireland) Queer Bashing is the physical assault on a person because of their real or perceived homosexuality.

Over here, "queer bashing" would be saying mean things.

 

[Andalublue]

Over here, "queer bashing" would be saying mean things.

So, what do you call violent assaults on LGBT people, because of who they are and what they are?

 

[rivrrat]

So, what do you call violent assaults on LGBT people, because of who they are and what they are?

I don't differentiate based on the victims sexual orientation. I would just call it assault.

 

[Andalublue]

I don't differentiate based on the victims sexual orientation. I would just call it assault.

I see, so hate crimes don't really exist? They are just crimes?

 

[rivrrat]

I see, so hate crimes don't really exist? They are just crimes?

Legally, they exist. Despite the fact that many of us find it wrong and insulting.

Assault is assault. Just because the victim was gay, black, jewish, whatever, doesn't make it any worse of a crime. People are people and should be treated equally in the eyes of the law. So yeah, of course they're "just crimes". A person is a person. You aren't more special because you're gay. I'm not more special because I'm bisexual. Or a woman. So on and so forth.

 

[Andalublue]

Legally, they exist. Despite the fact that many of us find it wrong and insulting.

Assault is assault. Just because the victim was gay, black, jewish, whatever, doesn't make it any worse of a crime. People are people and should be treated equally in the eyes of the law. So yeah, of course they're "just crimes". A person is a person. You aren't more special because you're gay. I'm not more special because I'm bisexual. Or a woman. So on and so forth.

Assault is indeed assault and the identity of the victim is irrelevant, but prejudicial hatred as a motivating factor is seen in many jurisdictions as an aggravating factor, just as wielding a weapon or attacking a minor is. Personally, I agree with that. It's not making the victim special but making the perpetrator a bit especially heinous.

 

[rivrrat]

Assault is indeed assault and the identity of the victim is irrelevant, but prejudicial hatred as a motivating factor is seen in many jurisdictions as an aggravating factor, just as wielding a weapon or attacking a minor is. Personally, I agree with that. It's not making the victim special but making the perpetrator a bit especially heinous.

But they're not especially heinous. You think people assault other people out of a genuine LIKE for them? Hate is present in all cases.

 

[Andalublue]

But they're not especially heinous. You think people assault other people out of a genuine LIKE for them? Hate is present in all cases.

I'd say that assaulting someone with a weapon is more heinous than assault without; assaulting a 12-year-old is more heinous than assaulting a 22-year-old; and assaulting someone because they are black/gay/Jewish/whatever is more heinous than assaulting them just because you're a violent fvckwit.

I must leave you at that point. Work in the am and it's already 2:12am. Thanks for the exchange! Always a pleasure to debate with you, Rivrrat.

 

[sokpupet]

My daughter and I went to a filming of The Ellen DeGeneres Show on 10/7 aired on 10/11. After seeing her in person.. .. ..I would come out for her!

She is absolutley beautiful; and I was already a huge fan of her's.

But, congratulations Andalublue. May it bring you joy and peace!

 

[Mustachio]

Just out of curiosity...why don't you just come out and say that you are accepting of him?

Yeah I'm late as well but congratz =)

Your brother's situation is very similar to that of me and my cousin, who I know is gay but will never admit it to our family and especially me. I can understand why but as you say, there is always that underlying tension.
Why don't you just tell him that you accept him for whoever he is?

I've thought about it, but I've been trying to get my whole family to get together and tell him. I don't want him to think that we talk about his sexuality behind his back and then only I come forward as though the other members of the family are ashamed of him. That would make things worse. But ya'll are right, I absolutely should tell him that.

 

[jallman]

I've thought about it, but I've been trying to get my whole family to get together and tell him. I don't want him to think that we talk about his sexuality behind his back and then only I come forward as though the other members of the family are ashamed of him. That would make things worse. But ya'll are right, I absolutely should tell him that.

Well if you dont mind a bit of input from a stranger...

I think it might actually be better coming from one person rather than a group. I mean...it could feel like a gang pile to him. Also, I know from dealing with my own parents that there's a fine line between being cool about it and being so cool about it that it comes off like you're patting yourself on the back for being accepting. Just a thought when you do decide to confront the situation.

 

[Andalublue]

But, congratulations Andalublue. May it bring you joy and peace!

That's a very sweet thought, but I haven't just come out. I think you're mixing me up with Patria Antiqua. I believe he has and is in that euphoric, f-the-World phase where he's feeling unrepentant and invincible. I'm very happy for him and I hope you'll send him the same congrats you've just sent me.

Thank you for the wishes, anyhow. They're just about 30 years late!:mrgreen:

 

[Andalublue]

Well if you dont mind a bit of input from a stranger...

I think it might actually be better coming from one person rather than a group. I mean...it could feel like a gang pile to him. Also, I know from dealing with my own parents that there's a fine line between being cool about it and being so cool about it that it comes off like you're patting yourself on the back for being accepting. Just a thought when you do decide to confront the situation.

This is good advice. I'd just add, when you do get around to it, don't *****foot too much, just come right out with it, unless he's a very delicate character indeed. He'll need to be able to cope with straight-talking ('scuse the pun) anyway, he'll need to get used to it. There's no point in tip-toeing around the subject in euphemisms.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Again, that may be the case where you live, but that is not the case everywhere. Here in Spain, whilst government operated adoption schemes conform with anti-discrimination legislation, the Catholic agencies, although receiving money from public funds, has an exemption that permits them to discriminate not only against gay adopters, but also against previously divorced people and single people.

My state had a law like that for a short while - voted on in the last election. It banned singles from adopting - it was started by an anti-gay group and passed. Later was ruled unconstititutional.
I always felt it appaling because it also affected a grandparent wanting to adopt their grandchildren or other such sad circumstances as that.

People voted for it with a one-track mind. . . didn't consider the actual implications.