Hamas Says It Agrees to Release All Hostages in Gaza

[Toggle Almendro]

Steve, are you turning a blind eye to the destruction and deaths which Israel is responsible for after October 7?

The Palestinians are responsible for all that destruction and death.

Self defence is legal, but there is a line which in the Court of Public opinion (and in International Tribunals findings) Israel has crossed.

Those people don't count. What counts is the fact that Israel is only defending themselves.

It cannot be white washed away as self defence

Self defense can indeed be whitewashed away as self defense.

and neither are the Holocaust and Oct 7 eternal excuses for garnering sympathy.

Sure they are.

I believe Israeli spokespersons have way too much over played those cards.

They are correct to point out that Israel is only defending themselves.

Enough. I want Israel to stop,

Israel will not stop without all the hostages being released.

Palestine recognised and that does not mean I am pro Hamas or seeking to reward Hamas.

It doesn't matter if you are seeking to reward Hamas. If you respond to the rape and murder of innocent Israelis by recognizing a Palestinian state, you are rewarding Hamas.

Humpty could have stopped this War on Day One if he truly meant to.

Humpty??

Simple. Stop supplying Israel with money, weapons and moral support.

The United States will ensure that Israel has all the support they need. That makes it irrelevant if others refuse to do so.

Instead he chose the opposite and has received/welcomed Netanyahu more times at the White House (I think it is FOUR times) than he likely has any other Leader of any other Country.

America likes fellow good guys. We also welcomed Winston Churchill during WWII.

 

[Aristaeus]

You continue to avoid the facts that relate to the current Gaza situation. Why are you afraid to address those fundamental facts which I will repeat for you as your information uptake appears problematic:
1. The West Bank is not Gaza.
2. Israel relinquished control over Gaza.
3. Gazan's elected Hamas as the legitimate governing authority.
4. Hamas is determined to obliterate Israel.
5. Gaza is far worse off now subsequent to the bad decisions of Hamas and, yet, Palestinians continue to support Hamas.
6. Hamas could surrender and the war would end.

Israel did not relinquish control over Gaza.
After they removed the settlers, they retained control of the border, the airspace, the coastal waters, the port, the water supply, imports/exports, and electricity supply.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

And the goal of Israel is the elimination of Palestine.

No. The goal of Israel is for people to stop raping and murdering them.

And also for the hostages to be freed.

Israel did not relinquish control over Gaza.

Sure they did.

After they removed the settlers, they retained control of the border, the airspace, the coastal waters, the port, the water supply, imports/exports, and electricity supply.

Justified self defense against the Palestinians' illegal war of annihilation.

 

[Bush Lawyer]

Gaza and the West Bank offer a striking contrast in the context of the recent conflict. Peaceful negotiation has been the path forward for over 60 years. The West Bank has made more progress, but terrorism hasn’t been fully rooted out—and its ties to Gaza continue to limit its potential.

Ultimately, this is Israel’s land—won in a war that the Palestinians helped initiate. There’s no turning back the clock a century. At this point, few people even remain who remember that original conflict.

If the people of Gaza and the West Bank want to establish a country—or countries—from the territory their neighbors ceded to Israel, they need to complete the process that began long ago. That means working with Israel, not against it.

Ah, ya see. Right there. A State of Palestine, you are saying, can only exist with the consent of Israel and on its terms.

What sort of long term solution is that, imposing Israels will over it all?

Israel can far cough out of Gaza and the West Bank, back to what is was given in the late 40s.

 

[Bush Lawyer]

The Palestinians are responsible for all that destruction and death.

[/QUOTE]

Yes, October 7 occurred, and yes, it is the very direct catalyst for where we are now. And it is also true, that as barbarous as it was, it has brought out all the very worst in Netanyahu and the State of Israel, so much so, that the tide of public opinion has turned World wide against the acts of the State of Israel.

Those people don't count. What counts is the fact that Israel is only defending themselves.

Israel is not now defending itself. Hamas is defeated and has been for many months. Gaza is utterly destroyed if I am to believe my own eyes.

Self defense can indeed be whitewashed away as self defense.

If I am attacked by someone holding a knife they are using against me, and I have successfully taken the knife off them and have them handcuffed and beaten, is it still self defence that I then pull out my pistol and unload an entire magazine into there head?

Sure they are.



They are correct to point out that Israel is only defending themselves.

No. See above.

Israel will not stop without all the hostages being released.

Rubbish. Their terms for peace are far more extensive than just a release of hostages

It doesn't matter if you are seeking to reward Hamas. If you respond to the rape and murder of innocent Israelis by recognizing a Palestinian state, you are rewarding Hamas.

Typical false equivalence worthy of Israel's Goebells.

Humpty??

Yes....Humpty.

The United States will ensure that Israel has all the support they need. That makes it irrelevant if others refuse to do so.

So, as I said....Humpty had zero intention of ending this War on Day One. He could have done so by taking away that support. He did the opposite and thousands have perished as a direct result.

America likes fellow good guys. We also welcomed Winston Churchill during WWII.

Are you really equating the indicted War Hawk Netanyahu with Churchill?

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Israel is not now defending itself.

Sure they are.

Hamas is defeated and has been for many months. Gaza is utterly destroyed if I am to believe my own eyes.

They haven't released the hostages yet.

If I am attacked by someone holding a knife they are using against me, and I have successfully taken the knife off them and have them handcuffed and beaten, is it still self defence that I then pull out my pistol and unload an entire magazine into there head?

Sure, if they haven't released the hostages yet.

Israel was negotiating an end to the war a couple months ago, then Hamas stopped negotiating.

Hopefully the current negotiations through Trump will be more successful.

Rubbish. Their terms for peace are far more extensive than just a release of hostages

The hostages are the main point. The war will wind down fairly quickly once the hostages are released.

Typical false equivalence worthy of Israel's Goebells.

Not a false equivalency. If you respond to October 7 by recognizing Palestine, then you are rewarding Hamas.

That also makes a Palestinian state even more impossible than it already is. Because the only way a Palestinian state will be allowed is if it is peaceful. And rewarding Hamas ensures that the Palestinians will not become peaceful.

Yes....Humpty.

Who is that?

So, as I said....Humpty had zero intention of ending this War on Day One. He could have done so by taking away that support. He did the opposite and thousands have perished as a direct result.

The United States will continue to support Israel, so it doesn't matter if any other entity chooses not to.

We're bigger than the rest of the world combined.

Are you really equating the indicted War Hawk Netanyahu with Churchill?

Yes.

Ah, ya see. Right there. A State of Palestine, you are saying, can only exist with the consent of Israel and on its terms.
What sort of long term solution is that, imposing Israels will over it all?

That's what's on offer. If the Palestinians don't want to accept that, they can huddle in their tents in the ruins of Gaza for the rest of their lives.

Israel can far cough out of Gaza and the West Bank, back to what is was given in the late 40s.

Huh???

 

[Decypher]

Not stolen land. The West Bank belongs to Israel now because of all the false accusations of genocide that were spouted against Israel.

You’ve made this bizarre claim before but it remains as fact free as all your other posts on every other subject. Israel is illegally settling the West Bank in contravention of international law. Israel is also conducting a genocide in Gaza. The two facts are related in that they demonstrate Isreal’s fundamental lack of respect for human decency and law but is not a causal relationship.

People can do lots of dumb things if they really want to. Most of the time though, people don't want to do dumb things.

Some of the time they do though. Like when you discuss politics and history despite having little knowledge of either.

What is happening in Gaza is self defense against an illegal war of annihilation that the Palestinians are waging against Israel.

Israel is conducting an illegal genocide on a civilian population.

 

[Decypher]

You continue to avoid the facts that relate to the current Gaza situation. Why are you afraid to address those fundamental facts which I will repeat for you as your information uptake appears problematic:
1. The West Bank is not Gaza.
2. Israel relinquished control over Gaza.
3. Gazan's elected Hamas as the legitimate governing authority.
4. Hamas is determined to obliterate Israel.
5. Gaza is far worse off now subsequent to the bad decisions of Hamas and, yet, Palestinians continue to support Hamas.
6. Hamas could surrender and the war would end.

I have repeatedly demonstrated why Isreal’s conduct in the West Bank is relevant to the discussion of Gaza. You won’t address is because it destroys your argument that Isreal’s actions in Gaza are isolated and not part of a pattern of Isreal contempt for Palestinian human rights and for international law.

Isreal withdrew from Gaza yes, but “most academic commentators have continued to regard the Gaza Strip as being under Israeli occupation due to Israel's active control over the territory's external affairs, as affirmed by the 2024 International Court of Justice advisory opinion.”

Israel reoccupied Gaza in 2006 after Hamas was elected. Operation Cast Lead was in 2008. Operation Pillar of Defence was in 2012. 2014 saw Operator Protective Edge and then another invasion in 2021. Isreal had continued to wage war in Gaza on at least 5 occasions since it withdrew and put the enclave under siege.

If Palestinians continue to support Hamas, it’s because they see them as the only thing standing in the way of obliteration by Isreal.

 

[snakestretcher]

The West Bank belongs to Israel now. A consequence of falsely accusing Israel of genocide.



Kind of off topic, but the Second Amendment was also designed to address foreign invasions.



That is incorrect. We engage in defensive wars.



That is incorrect. The West Bank belongs to Israel now. A consequence of falsely accusing Israel of genocide.



That is incorrect. The West Bank belongs to Israel now. A consequence of falsely accusing Israel of genocide.



That is incorrect. Everything that I said is true. That's why no one can point out anything untrue in what I said.



And rightly so.



No ignorance. Once again, everything that I said is true.



I do many useful things all the time.

More garbage and lying propaganda. It doesn't work; you'll get the message one day.

 

[dcsports]

Ah, ya see. Right there. A State of Palestine, you are saying, can only exist with the consent of Israel and on its terms.

What sort of long term solution is that, imposing Israels will over it all?

Israel can far cough out of Gaza and the West Bank, back to what is was given in the late 40s.

Israel may have won the war, but the outcome also involved a brokered peace. The Palestinians aren’t without leverage—Israel doesn’t hold all the cards—but their position is weak. Both sides are meant to negotiate a long-term solution. Israel has already negotiated borders with its neighbors, leaving the Palestinians within those boundaries.

However, no agreement will come from Israel without firm assurances for the safety of its people—and they won't accept one that doesn't. Whether the future involves assimilation, a two-state solution, or even a three-state arrangement remains to be seen. But as long as terror attacks continue, meaningful progress won’t happen.

 

[Spock]

Israel did NOT "relinquish control over Gaza" when it withdrew. The Government of Israel imposed a crippling land, sea, and air embargo.

Israel attempted to control the materials of war.... apparently inadequately.

I'm surprised you don't know this.

There was one election which was held close to 20 years ago.

Hamas is the current government of Gaza.

Hamas might be "determined to obliterate" Israel, but Hamas is not the equivalent of "Palestinians in Gaza".

Hamas is supported by sufficient Gazans to comfortably function and receive support.

Moreover, you seem to forget that the military prowess of Hamas does not begin to equal that of the modern state of Israel.

So? Hamas apparently is unable to make appropriate military decisions given the fact of asymmetric power.

Gaza is "worse off now" due to the decisions and actions undertaken and ordered by the Government of Israel.

Nope. Hamas is responsible for the current war.

You do not speak for the Government of Israel. Thus, your assertion that "Hamas could surrender and the war would end" is meaningless.

Israel is at war with Hamas, but you can fabricate all the false arguments you think will support your flawed conceptions about the Middle East conflicts because your opinions are disconnected from history and reality.
The biggest absurdity is that Israel is somehow responsible for Oct 7 and the subsequent consequences.

 

[Spock]

And the goal of Israel is the elimination of Palestine.

The goal of Israel is defense against the Islamic influenced terrorist efforts to obliterate a Jewish state.

 

[Spock]

Israel did not relinquish control over Gaza.
After they removed the settlers, they retained control of the border, the airspace, the coastal waters, the port, the water supply, imports/exports, and electricity supply.

How did that work out for Israel?

 

[slavablueberryjam]

“Fight” with what? Israel can’t defeat Hamas with the most advanced tanks and planes money can buy.

Furthermore, why should Palestinians lift a lift a finger to help those carrying out a genocide against them?

Is that you being funny again? Israel is wiping the floor with Hamas. It's costing Palestinians their lives and future, but that's a cost HAMAS is willing to make, so good for them.

 

[Spock]

I have repeatedly demonstrated why Isreal’s conduct in the West Bank is relevant to the discussion of Gaza. You won’t address is because it destroys your argument that Isreal’s actions in Gaza are isolated and not part of a pattern of Isreal contempt for Palestinian human rights and for international law.

I am not interested in distorting current events. You might as well be arguing about the rise of Islam in the early centuries of the first millennium CE.

Isreal withdrew from Gaza yes, but “most academic commentators have continued to regard the Gaza Strip as being under Israeli occupation due to Israel's active control over the territory's external affairs, as affirmed by the 2024 International Court of Justice advisory opinion.”

Explain why Israel should allow a state full autonomy when that state is committed to the destruction of Israel.

Israel reoccupied Gaza in 2006 after Hamas was elected. Operation Cast Lead was in 2008. Operation Pillar of Defence was in 2012. 2014 saw Operator Protective Edge and then another invasion in 2021. Isreal had continued to wage war in Gaza on at least 5 occasions since it withdrew and put the enclave under siege.

So?

If Palestinians continue to support Hamas, it’s because they see them as the only thing standing in the way of obliteration by Isreal.

Too bad Palestinians have made so many bad choices over the years.

 

[Tigerace117]

Is that you being funny again? Israel is wiping the floor with Hamas. It's costing Palestinians their lives and future, but that's a cost HAMAS is willing to make, so good for them.

According to the U.S. Hamas has already replaced whatever casualties it had taken, so that is a clear falsehood.

Because gee, as it turns out; when you commit genocide people are going to want to fight back.

 

[Tigerace117]

Gaza and the West Bank offer a striking contrast in the context of the recent conflict. Peaceful negotiation has been the path forward for over 60 years. The West Bank has made more progress, but terrorism hasn’t been fully rooted out—and its ties to Gaza continue to limit its potential.

Ultimately, this is Israel’s land—won in a war that the Palestinians helped initiate. There’s no turning back the clock a century. At this point, few people even remain who remember that original conflict.

If the people of Gaza and the West Bank want to establish a country—or countries—from the territory their neighbors ceded to Israel, they need to complete the process that began long ago. That means working with Israel, not against it.

Israel is actively violating international law via its settlements in the West Bank. Attacks on Palestinian civilians in the West Bank remain widespread and constant. The “Jewish State”’is the biggest threat to the West Bank’s “potential”.

Ultimately, Israel’s desperation to steal other people’s land ensures there will never be peace. The Palestinians are not, in fact, obligated to collaborate with genocidal foreign invaders, no matter how desperately America wants them to.!

 

[Tigerace117]

That was a response to a different poster, and you don't understand the context.

We've also discussed the 'theft of land' statement you've made a few times.


And again, no one is making that argument. You are beating a straw man.

You have been flailing endlessly on this.

Yeah, you wailed “it’s not theft if you win a war!” which is, once again, blatantly false under international law.

But then again, we’ve already throughly established you think being Jewish means one doesn’t have to abide by any of those inconvenient laws.

 

[Decypher]

I am not interested in distorting current events. You might as well be arguing about the rise of Islam in the early centuries of the first millennium CE.

As I said, you won’t discuss the West Bank because it destroys your position on Gaza, so I’ll take that as a concession.

Explain why Israel should allow a state full autonomy when that state is committed to the destruction of Israel.

Gaza isn’t a state and Isreal did not relinquish control over it as I have demonstrated, contrary to your previous assertion.

So?

So it proves that Isreal continued to wage war in Gaza after the withdrawal.

Too bad Palestinians have made so many bad choices over the years.

An oppressed people have few options.

Anyway, this is a poor response from you, that @dcsports thought it was worthy of “liking” shows how the pro-Zionist position has little merit.

 

[dcsports]

Israel is actively violating international law via its settlements in the West Bank. ...

We've been through this before. Making vague statements about 'international law' isn't helpful. You need to figure out what you are arguing. And you really need to learn about the history of the area.

Yeah, you

See above.

 

[Tigerace117]

We've been through this before. Making vague statements about 'international law' isn't helpful. You need to figure out what you are arguing. And you really need to learn about the history of the area.

See above.

It’s not “vague” at all. Israel’s settlements have been repeatedly, explicitly declared illegal under international law. Using human shields, as Israel does extensively, is illegal under international law.

Committing genocide, as Israel is doing, is illegal under international law.

Oh, I know the history. You clearly don’t, because you’ve been unable to cope with the fact Israel used terrorism to gain its independence

 

[Aristaeus]

The goal of Israel is defense against the Islamic influenced terrorist efforts to obliterate a Jewish state.

The goal of Israel is the elimination of Palestine by preventing it from becoming a state.
It's why Israel steals land and attacks Palestinians in the West Bank even though the PA in the West Bank recognises Israel's right to exist and doesn't attack Israel.

 

[Manc Skipper]

The goal of Israel is defense against the Islamic influenced terrorist efforts to obliterate a Jewish state.

It's extermination of Arabs within "Greater Israel". First Gaza then the West Bank, then southern Lebanon and a chunk of Syria and Jordan....Where does it end?

 

[dcsports]

It’s not “vague” at all. Israel’s settlements have been repeatedly, explicitly declared illegal under international law. Using human shields, as Israel does extensively, is illegal under international law.

Committing genocide, as Israel is doing, is illegal under international law.

Oh, I know the history. You clearly don’t, because you’ve been unable to cope with the fact Israel used terrorism to gain its independence

Extremely vague. What "international law" are they 'breaking' and how? Much of this post is just rhetoric as well.

 

[Tigerace117]

Extremely vague. What "international law" are they 'breaking' and how? Much of this post is just rhetoric as well.

What about “has repeatedly, explicitly been declared illegal under international law” is “vague”?

How? By illegally colonizing other people’s land, for starters.