Guns don't kill people, Vice Presidents who play with guns do, or almost...

[Conflict]

Here's a link to Google that has multiple stories reporting that Cheney lacked the proper hunting license, take your pick.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1614924

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20060213-1704-cheney.html

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breakingnews/021306cheney_citation

Just search for "Cheney didn't have hunting stamp"

I think this Administration has made it very clear that they are not concerned with the technicality of law. So he didn't have a stamp by the government to shoot quail. No stupid stamp should be required. But that's another story.

 

[Jim]

I think this Administration has made it very clear that they are not concerned with the technicality of law. So he didn't have a stamp by the government to shoot quail. No stupid stamp should be required. But that's another story.

Oh, good grief. What won't the main stream media and the lefties use against this administration?

 

[Jim]

I simply asked why the stonewall? How is it possible that this story was never reported by the White House until they were outed?

You've just got to laugh at these crazies. As if this could be stifled.

This is not a public policy issue; it's an accident that happened a short time ago.

Yet nothing is to miniscule, or to low, for the left to try to smear this administration.

Hmmm? Republicans are for all the violence stuff and Liberals are against all the violence stuff yet you write that I and my compadres rejoice in someone getting shot? You obviously know $hit about being Liberal....

Have you been reading this thread? There was one leftie beside himself with glee at this event. At least he was honest about it instead of acting like the future of this presidency should hinge on whether Cheney got a hunting stamp.

 

[26 X World Champs]

You've just got to laugh at these crazies. As if this could be stifled.

This is not a public policy issue; it's an accident that happened a short time ago.

Yet nothing is to miniscule, or to low, for the left to try to smear this administration.

Bullshit! The VP shoots someone accidently, and that is news. Stonewalling the story is also news so what's your problem? Blind to the news are you?

Have you been reading this thread? There was one leftie beside himself with glee at this event. At least he was honest about it instead of acting like the future of this presidency should hinge on whether Cheney got a hunting stamp.

What are you talking about? You're associating ME with the concept that I revel in someone being shot and that "Jim" is messed up. You're rewriting the truth and trying to spin the story into something that I never wrote or hinted at or anything.

Why not tell us why the White House stonewalled the story? You're avoiding the actual question by writing untruths and generalizations...

 

[KidRocks]

So how come the Office of the VP didn't release the story? Why the silence? The story was published 18 hours after the incident by a local paper...nothing from Cheney or Bush. How come?

Turns out Cheney also didn't have the proper stamp to hunt quail.

How come this guy didn't immediately release the news? Why the coverup?

Haven't you heard? The Bush administration is armed with the "Patriot-Act", they no longer have to play by the rules. They no longer have to obay the "rule of law". It's how they were re-elected, it's how they are holding on to power. In this case, power absolutely corrupts!

The Bush administration feels 9/11 was a blessing in disguise to them.

But that's just my humble opinion!

 

[Conflict]

Oh, good grief. What won't the main stream media and the lefties use against this administration?

Sorry Jim... which part did you disagree with and consider me a "leftie" for?

I stated that there shouldn't have to be some silly stamp nor any type of registration to hunt. You didn't say anything about that, did ya?

I stated that the Bush administration doesn't care about laws.

That really got your panties in a bunch.

I'm not a leftie. I'm a centrist. You've been consumed by the right wing authoritarian doctrine. Better go find a clinic to bomb.

 

[KidRocks]

Why do you assume coverup? I heard it reported that it was the victim and his family who asked that it remain private.

Sort of reminds me of the Ted Kennedy fiasco. They waited a whole day to release the details of the tragic accident and then only because they were forced to because they were exposed first.







http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/13/cheney/index.html


White House defends handling of Cheney shooting
Cheney gets warning from Parks and Wildlife Department

(CNN) -- The White House is defending its delay in disclosing Vice President Dick Cheney's weekend hunting accident, telling reporters Monday the focus was on making sure the man Cheney shot got medical attention.

Cheney was hunting quail at a friend's South Texas ranch when he shot and wounded Harry Whittington, a 78-year-old attorney from Austin and Bush-Cheney campaign contributor, about 5:30 p.m. Saturday.

Whittington, who was hit with birdshot in the face, neck and upper torso, was being moved out of intensive care Monday at a hospital in Corpus Christi, officials at the facility said.

Sheriff's deputies in Kenedy County, near Corpus Christi, questioned Whittington on Monday. They had questioned Cheney on Sunday.

While the state Parks and Wildlife Department issued Cheney a warning for not possessing a required stamp on his hunting license, the sheriff's department said there was "no alcohol or misconduct involved in the incident"...

 

[Conflict]

Sort of reminds me of the Ted Kennedy fiasco. They waited a whole day to release the details of the tragic accident and then only because they were forced to because they were exposed first.







http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/13/cheney/index.html


White House defends handling of Cheney shooting
Cheney gets warning from Parks and Wildlife Department

(CNN) -- The White House is defending its delay in disclosing Vice President Dick Cheney's weekend hunting accident, telling reporters Monday the focus was on making sure the man Cheney shot got medical attention.

Cheney was hunting quail at a friend's South Texas ranch when he shot and wounded Harry Whittington, a 78-year-old attorney from Austin and Bush-Cheney campaign contributor, about 5:30 p.m. Saturday.

Whittington, who was hit with birdshot in the face, neck and upper torso, was being moved out of intensive care Monday at a hospital in Corpus Christi, officials at the facility said.

Sheriff's deputies in Kenedy County, near Corpus Christi, questioned Whittington on Monday. They had questioned Cheney on Sunday.

While the state Parks and Wildlife Department issued Cheney a warning for not possessing a required stamp on his hunting license, the sheriff's department said there was "no alcohol or misconduct involved in the incident"...

Basically the point is if he were a regular citizen he would be in hot water. I get what you're saying and it makes sense.

Just because he is the vice president (or so they say), holds him to a higher standard of law and not a lesser one.

That is an extremely valid point.d

The only problem I have is that these are liberal laws which you are defending. No person should ever be penalized for an accident. (unless it results in thousands of service member deaths and is questionable in the context of the term accident).

 

[KidRocks]

Basically the point is if he were a regular citizen he would be in hot water. I get what you're saying and it makes sense.

Just because he is the vice president (or so they say), holds him to a higher standard of law and not a lesser one.

That is an extremely valid point.d

The only problem I have is that these are liberal laws which you are defending. No person should ever be penalized for an accident. (unless it results in thousands of service member deaths and is questionable in the context of the term accident).

Liberal laws? Give me a break will ya? Try this on for size...




Cheney Apparently Breaks Key Hunting Rule


WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney apparently broke the No. 1 rule of hunting: Be sure of what you're shooting at. He also violated Texas game law by failing to buy a hunting stamp.

Cheney wounded fellow hunter Harry Whittington in the face, neck and chest Saturday, apparently because he didn't see Whittington approaching as he fired on a covey of quail in Texas.

Hunting safety experts interviewed Monday agreed it would have been a good idea for Whittington to announce himself — something he apparently didn't do, according to a witness. But they stressed that the shooter is responsible for avoiding other people.

"It's incumbent upon the shooter to assess the situation and make sure it's a safe shot," said Mark Birkhauser, president-elect of the International Hunter Education Association and hunter education coordinator in New Mexico. "Once you squeeze that trigger, you can't bring that shot back."

The Parks and Wildlife Department said Cheney and Whittington will be given warning citations for violating game law by not having an upland game bird stamp, a requirement that went into effect in September. Cheney had a $125 nonresident hunting license, the vice president's office said Monday night in a statement, and has sent a $7 check to cover the cost of the stamp.

Cheney, an experienced hunter, has not commented publicly about the accident. He avoided reporters by leaving an Oval Office meeting with United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan before the press was escorted in.

President Bush was told about Cheney's involvement in the accident shortly before 8 p.m. Saturday — about an hour after it occurred — but the White House did not disclose the accident until Sunday afternoon, and then only in response to press questions. Press secretary Scott McClellan said he did not know until Sunday morning that Cheney had shot someone.

Facing a press corps upset that news had been withheld, McClellan said, "I think you can always look back at these issues and look at how to do a better job."...







PS... Note the paragraph in bold... is that a liberal law? If it is it is a hell of a good liberal rule to follow. Is it still "questionable in the context of the term accident" to you? And do you really believe that "no person should ever be penalized for an accident"?

Please rethink your position, then come back and edit again. I know you can do it.

 

[Conflict]

Liberal laws? Give me a break will ya? Try this on for size...




Cheney Apparently Breaks Key Hunting Rule


WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney apparently broke the No. 1 rule of hunting: Be sure of what you're shooting at. He also violated Texas game law by failing to buy a hunting stamp.

Cheney wounded fellow hunter Harry Whittington in the face, neck and chest Saturday, apparently because he didn't see Whittington approaching as he fired on a covey of quail in Texas.

Hunting safety experts interviewed Monday agreed it would have been a good idea for Whittington to announce himself — something he apparently didn't do, according to a witness. But they stressed that the shooter is responsible for avoiding other people.

"It's incumbent upon the shooter to assess the situation and make sure it's a safe shot," said Mark Birkhauser, president-elect of the International Hunter Education Association and hunter education coordinator in New Mexico. "Once you squeeze that trigger, you can't bring that shot back."

The Parks and Wildlife Department said Cheney and Whittington will be given warning citations for violating game law by not having an upland game bird stamp, a requirement that went into effect in September. Cheney had a $125 nonresident hunting license, the vice president's office said Monday night in a statement, and has sent a $7 check to cover the cost of the stamp.

Cheney, an experienced hunter, has not commented publicly about the accident. He avoided reporters by leaving an Oval Office meeting with United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan before the press was escorted in.

President Bush was told about Cheney's involvement in the accident shortly before 8 p.m. Saturday — about an hour after it occurred — but the White House did not disclose the accident until Sunday afternoon, and then only in response to press questions. Press secretary Scott McClellan said he did not know until Sunday morning that Cheney had shot someone.

Facing a press corps upset that news had been withheld, McClellan said, "I think you can always look back at these issues and look at how to do a better job."...







PS... Note the paragraph in bold... is that a liberal law? If it is it is a hell of a good liberal rule to follow. Is it still "questionable in the context of the term accident" to you? And do you really believe that "no person should ever be penalized for an accident"?

Please rethink your position, then come back and edit again. I know you can do it.

I seriously doubt Cheney intended upon shooting his mate.

Don't get me wrong.. I am completely disgusted with Cheney but this is just getting way too left wing for me.

THere is no conspiracy. The man was just out hunting. Yeah, he fu©ked up in this sense. He is human.

I'm not discounting the fact that he is a pnac hawk who cares nothing of the United States, the taxpayers, or the people.

I'm just saying that this was merely a hunting accident and there is no need to make such a political issue of it.

 

[Jim]

Bullshit! The VP shoots someone accidently, and that is news. Stonewalling the story is also news so what's your problem? Blind to the news are you?

Where did I say it wasn't news? Try again.

What are you talking about? You're associating ME with the concept that I revel in someone being shot and that "Jim" is messed up. You're rewriting the truth and trying to spin the story into something that I never wrote or hinted at or anything.

Get a grip. Where did I associate you individually with that mindset? I do think that it is behind a lot of this pushing on a 1 day delay in reporting an accident.

Why not tell us why the White House stonewalled the story? You're avoiding the actual question by writing untruths and generalizations...

Gee, I don't know. Cause they are the debil? What is your conspiracy theory?

 

[jamesrage]

"Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people"

Come on guys , we all know that guns don't kill people. Vice Presidents who
play with guns kill people, or almost.

I find it amusing that a bunch of old farts get in a hunting accident while the media ignors the fact that Al Gore is inciting our enimies.Instead of the headline being" Al Gore trying to incite our enimes" it is "Old geezers have a hunting accident".

 

[Jim]

Sorry Jim... which part did you disagree with and consider me a "leftie" for?

I stated that there shouldn't have to be some silly stamp nor any type of registration to hunt. You didn't say anything about that, did ya?

I stated that the Bush administration doesn't care about laws.

That really got your panties in a bunch.

I'm not a leftie. I'm a centrist. You've been consumed by the right wing authoritarian doctrine. Better go find a clinic to bomb.

Lol. Yes, the position on the NSA program sure shifts in my mind as a result of this event. I can see the logical connection.

This is a classic case of people seeing what they want to see in an event.

Go find a clinic to bomb? Yes, you are certainly moderate in your language.

 

[steen]

Of course you don't set shooting lanes knowingly toward another hunter. But if you are on the right side of the party and a quail flushes toward your right rear, I can see how it would be possible to swing on the bird and accidently shoot someone approaching from the rear when you didn't have a clue they were there.

You said that you NEVER, NEVER swing your gun back and I was pointing out that it is acceptable under some conditions.

You guys are not hunters, are you?

You do not turn and shoot in a direction you have not cleared visibly first. There is ALWAYS the possibility that somebody else comes up outside of your field of vision, there is always the possibility that a kid has crawled out of the car and come up to visit daddy or mommy who are doing strange and curious things.

Cheney acted recklessly and ended up hurting somebody because he broke the rules that are deigned to prevent exactly what Cheney did.

I cannot even believe anybody are defending unsafe hunting practices. Just because the shooter is a republican? Outrageous.

 

[Vandeervecken]

Why not just find out what happened instead of speculating?

I've read several reports. All of them have the victim coming up from behind. Cheney TURNED as your report says, all the way around and discharged his weapon into a member of his hunting party. This is 100% Cheney's fault. The shooter is the one and only person who is responsible for where the rounds he discharges go.

I have hunted for more than 30 years, bird hunting is in fact my favorite type of hunting, I know hundreds and hundreds of hunters who shoot birds and upland game on a regular basis. I have been talking to many of them, and they with others. ALL of us think this is utterly inexcusable. Not one of us thinks that it is in any way the victims fault. None of us has ever heard of "announcing yourself" as you move through the hunt. You see game has ears. We without exception once afield communicate through sign language. It is the shooters and solely the shooters responsibility to know what is in his field of fire.

No it comes out Cheney was not licensed, and this was a canned hunt ranch. Deplorable.

This means Cheney is guilty of poaching. Not just poaching, but poaching what amounts to livestock.

A hold him in utter disregard as does any hunter. Canned hunts are disgusting and only done by the lowest form of scum. Poaching except in the most dire of circumstances to eat is inexcusable.

This idiot VP has the money to buy the proper license, and has no excuse for canned hunting. Why doesn't he just pick off his neighbor's dogs and cats as they sit in cages? About as sporting as what he was doing.

I did not think i could have a lower opinion of this cowardly chicken-hawk than I did last week, turns out I can.

 

[Jim]

Sort of reminds me of the Ted Kennedy fiasco. They waited a whole day to release the details of the tragic accident and then only because they were forced to because they were exposed first.

....
While the state Parks and Wildlife Department issued Cheney a warning for not possessing a required stamp on his hunting license, the sheriff's department said there was "no alcohol or misconduct involved in the incident"...

In the lala land of liberals:

1. A program designed to monitor communicatinos between terrorists into the United States is comparable to Nixon breaking into the DNC;

2. Not having a stamp on a hunting license is validation that the administration is lawless;

3. Not instantly reporting a hunting accident not involving alcohol where there is no fatality and no complaint from the injured party is comparable to a married Senator driving into the water in the middle of night with a single woman, leaving the woman to die and only reporting the event after he had sobered.

They just won't allow themselves to think critically when distinctions could be drawn favorable to this administration. I only wish that there were more honest dems like Lieberman who put the country and truth before their partisan power and preconceptions.

But, instead, I'll watch yet another molehill be elevated into mountain status.

 

[Jim]

I've read several reports. All of them have the victim coming up from behind. Cheney TURNED as your report says, all the way around and discharged his weapon into a member of his hunting party. This is 100% Cheney's fault. The shooter is the one and only person who is responsible for where the rounds he discharges go.

I have hunted for more than 30 years, bird hunting is in fact my favorite type of hunting, I know hundreds and hundreds of hunters who shoot birds and upland game on a regular basis. I have been talking to many of them, and they with others. ALL of us think this is utterly inexcusable. Not one of us thinks that it is in any way the victims fault. None of us has ever heard of "announcing yourself" as you move through the hunt. You see game has ears. We without exception once afield communicate through sign language. It is the shooters and solely the shooters responsibility to know what is in his field of fire.

No it comes out Cheney was not licensed, and this was a canned hunt ranch. Deplorable.

This means Cheney is guilty of poaching. Not just poaching, but poaching what amounts to livestock.

A hold him in utter disregard as does any hunter. Canned hunts are disgusting and only done by the lowest form of scum. Poaching except in the most dire of circumstances to eat is inexcusable.

This idiot VP has the money to buy the proper license, and has no excuse for canned hunting. Why doesn't he just pick off his neighbor's dogs and cats as they sit in cages? About as sporting as what he was doing.

I did not think i could have a lower opinion of this cowardly chicken-hawk than I did last week, turns out I can.

Of course he's at fault. It's kind of like rear ending someone at a red light. that doesn't mean he should be held in "utter disregard." That's just silly. Have you never run a red light or made a mistake driving? Everyone does and, had this man been killed, I suspect that Cheney's insurance carrier would have had to paid for the loss.

That's the end of the story. It's a private civil matter which is over. Predictably, people will try to make as m uch as they can out of the issue no matter how illogical and strained the argument.

 

[Conflict]

I've read several reports. All of them have the victim coming up from behind. Cheney TURNED as your report says, all the way around and discharged his weapon into a member of his hunting party. This is 100% Cheney's fault. The shooter is the one and only person who is responsible for where the rounds he discharges go.

I have hunted for more than 30 years, bird hunting is in fact my favorite type of hunting, I know hundreds and hundreds of hunters who shoot birds and upland game on a regular basis. I have been talking to many of them, and they with others. ALL of us think this is utterly inexcusable. Not one of us thinks that it is in any way the victims fault. None of us has ever heard of "announcing yourself" as you move through the hunt. You see game has ears. We without exception once afield communicate through sign language. It is the shooters and solely the shooters responsibility to know what is in his field of fire.

No it comes out Cheney was not licensed, and this was a canned hunt ranch. Deplorable.

This means Cheney is guilty of poaching. Not just poaching, but poaching what amounts to livestock.

A hold him in utter disregard as does any hunter. Canned hunts are disgusting and only done by the lowest form of scum. Poaching except in the most dire of circumstances to eat is inexcusable.

This idiot VP has the money to buy the proper license, and has no excuse for canned hunting. Why doesn't he just pick off his neighbor's dogs and cats as they sit in cages? About as sporting as what he was doing.

I did not think i could have a lower opinion of this cowardly chicken-hawk than I did last week, turns out I can.

I'm no fan of Cheney but man you are way off base here. There are bad tendencies on both sides.

 

[Vandeervecken]

You obviously know nothing about hunting, especially quail hunting. You're supposed to let your hunting party know where you are at all times, especially when you leave them and are rejoining them.

Although painful, a 28 guage shotgun, probably using #8 shot, is hardly a deadly weapon at 30 yards.

I've been hunting quail for three decades. Nobody announces themselves once afield. You communicate using hand signals and bird whistles with your dog(s). TALKING sends the game fleeing.

Anyone who knows ANYTHING about hunting or ANY of the shooting sports knows that it is 100% the responsibility of the shooter to make sure he has a clear field of fire before he discharges his weapon.

Are you willing to be shot at 30 yards by a round of #8 28 gauge shot? The victim has spent days in the ICU, hardly the minor flesh wound you would like us to believe it is.

 

[Conflict]

Lol. Yes, the position on the NSA program sure shifts in my mind as a result of this event. I can see the logical connection.

This is a classic case of people seeing what they want to see in an event.

Go find a clinic to bomb? Yes, you are certainly moderate in your language.

I attempt to explain to the far left that this was mereley a hunting accident (perhaps wishful thinking), yet you attack me.

I'm not into your status quo, I admit. but I see no reason to make an issue out of a simple hunting accident.

 

[Vandeervecken]

Oh, good grief. What won't the main stream media and the lefties use against this administration?

You do not have a problem with the Vice President of the United States illegally poaching game?

 

[Vandeervecken]

Of course he's at fault. It's kind of like rear ending someone at a red light. that doesn't mean he should be held in "utter disregard." That's just silly. Have you never run a red light or made a mistake driving? Everyone does and, had this man been killed, I suspect that Cheney's insurance carrier would have had to paid for the loss.

That's the end of the story. It's a private civil matter which is over. Predictably, people will try to make as m uch as they can out of the issue no matter how illogical and strained the argument.

I hold him in utter disregard for canned hunting. I hold him in utter disregard for being a poacher. I hold him in utter disregard for discharging his firearm without first making sure he had a clear field of fire, and then getting his minions to try and lay the blame on the victim.

 

[Conflict]

You do not have a problem with the Vice President of the United States illegally poaching game?

I don't.

We have way too many trivial laws.

Who is the victim? A Quail?

Give me a break.

Should we prosecute?

LOL

 

[Vandeervecken]

I'm no fan of Cheney but man you are way off base here. There are bad tendencies on both sides.

Really, let us look at my post again:

Originally Posted by Vandeervecken
I've read several reports. All of them have the victim coming up from behind. Cheney TURNED as your report says, all the way around and discharged his weapon into a member of his hunting party. This is 100% Cheney's fault. The shooter is the one and only person who is responsible for where the rounds he discharges go.

I have hunted for more than 30 years, bird hunting is in fact my favorite type of hunting, I know hundreds and hundreds of hunters who shoot birds and upland game on a regular basis. I have been talking to many of them, and they with others. ALL of us think this is utterly inexcusable. Not one of us thinks that it is in any way the victims fault. None of us has ever heard of "announcing yourself" as you move through the hunt. You see game has ears. We without exception once afield communicate through sign language. It is the shooters and solely the shooters responsibility to know what is in his field of fire.

No it comes out Cheney was not licensed, and this was a canned hunt ranch. Deplorable.

This means Cheney is guilty of poaching. Not just poaching, but poaching what amounts to livestock.

A hold him in utter disregard as does any hunter. Canned hunts are disgusting and only done by the lowest form of scum. Poaching except in the most dire of circumstances to eat is inexcusable.

This idiot VP has the money to buy the proper license, and has no excuse for canned hunting. Why doesn't he just pick off his neighbor's dogs and cats as they sit in cages? About as sporting as what he was doing.

I did not think i could have a lower opinion of this cowardly chicken-hawk than I did last week, turns out I can.

What in this do you see as directed at anyone but Cheney himself?

Show me any democrats who poach and engage in canned hunting and I'll hold them in utter disregard as well. however as most democrats are hoplophobes you may have a hard time doing that.

 

[Vandeervecken]

I don't.

We have way too many trivial laws.

Who is the victim? A Quail?

Give me a break.

Should we prosecute?

LOL

Yes we should prosecute.

We have hunting and game laws to protect the game. Without such laws species got hunted to extinction. Who is the victim? all the people of Texas. Especially all the hunters who play by the rules.

Why is it you Republicans think this administration is above the law?