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Several people have been killed and others injured after a gunman opened fire in several areas of west Cumbria.
Police are searching for the suspect, named as Derrick Bird, after shots were fired in Whitehaven, Seascale and Egremont.
He is believed to be heading towards the central Lakes area in a grey or silver Picasso, registration ND55 ZFC.
BBC Story
They should ban guns, oh wait. :ssst:
Seriously though, these sad lessons seldom are learned.
What lessons? That guns kill people?
The UK has very few cases of this kind, and in the US where children can basically get guns, there are such shootings almost on a weekly basis.
They should ban guns, oh wait. :ssst:
Seriously though, these sad lessons seldom are learned.
Unarmed people who were stripped of their rights to protect themselves being prey for a armed criminal? Say it ain't so.
You mean the teachers? Yeah I agree.Yeah, if only those Columbine kids had been packing....
Hardly. If I've learned one thing about politics from our current White House is that letting a good tragedy and not using that tragedy for politics is such a waste. When the ability both legally and physically, to defend one's self is removed - it' easy for someone like Bird to take advantage of it. :shrug:This is a terrible tragedy and to use it to make cheap political points is a bit sick.
Yeah, if only those Columbine kids had been packing....
But I'm sure the people of West Cumbria thank you for your show of sympathy.
This is a terrible tragedy and to use
it to make cheap political points is a bit sick.
Fortunately no such tasteless remarks have been expressed by anyone on any of the radio or TV reports I've been following, so the grief of the families of the victims will not be exacerbated by anti gun control nuts.
The death toll is now 12 (13 including the shooter) with 30 different crime scenes. The witness reports make very upsetting listening. I have nothing to comment on Mr Ockham's ill-considered and inappropriate post. Perhaps you'd allow the dead to be buried before making political capital.
The death toll is now 12 (13 including the shooter) with 30 different crime scenes. The witness reports make very upsetting listening. I have nothing to comment on Mr Ockham's ill-considered and inappropriate post. Perhaps you'd allow the dead to be buried before making political capital.
I'm very sorry that this happened. It is indeed tragic, and the fear that it inflicts on everyone in the area is not to be minimized. Last year, we had a serial killer in my home area, who killed a man I knew slightly not more than five miles from my home, and killed a total of five before being killed himself.
It is a terrible thing.
In regards to comments by Ockham and James, I think there is something worth considering here: in the past, the anti-gun political lobby has never been shy about using such tragedies to further their own political agenda. Indeed, I believe I am correct that it was a similar mass-killing that lead England to essentially ban handguns entirely. Nor is it at all beyond imagining that the anti-gun political crowd in Britain will use this tragedy in an effort to further restrict law-abiding gun owners and further impair the British citizen's right of self-defense. Viewed from that perspective, their comments are not without merit.
I concur with what Andalublue has said. We do not want guns and we do not want our police armed while performing their normal duties either.
Then this will happen again... those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. :shrug:
You'd have to look no further than the Hassan shooting. Cop took out Hassan as he opened up on fellow servicemen. Frankly- there are every day cases where break-ins, attempted rapes, thefts, etc. are either stopped or the perpetrators are shot. Even without a gun, defense of one's self, ]property and family is a key right. There's even a story in this thread which outlines how a gun saved someone.As Andalublue has accurately said this is a very uncommon occurance in this country, and, to be perfectly frank, I do not think I have noticed that having guns has been of much help to people caught in a similar situation to this in the US.
And that's perfectly fine - so I'll say it once more: Then this occurrence will happen again, and again. And it'll be just a sorrowful tragedy each and every time.The overwhelming consensus in this country is that we do not want guns, not for ourselves or for our police. I think Andalublue's putting it as a 'clash of civilisations' over this is a very good one. Understand we do not want guns. No one is asking for guns. If there were anyway of having even less guns that is what they would be asking for, but again, in a situation like this, I have not noticed that having guns helps the US one bit and the US has a lot more incidents like this than we do.
You'd have to look no further than the Hassan shooting. Cop took out Hassan as he opened up on fellow servicemen. Frankly- there are every day cases where break-ins, attempted rapes, thefts, etc. are either stopped or the perpetrators are shot. Even without a gun, defense of one's self, ]property and family is a key right. There's even a story in this thread which outlines how a gun saved someone.
And that's perfectly fine - so I'll say it once more: Then this occurrence will happen again, and again. And it'll be just a sorrowful tragedy each and every time.
April 4, 2009, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania: 23 year-old Richard Poplawsk opened fire on officers during a domestic disturbance call Saturday morning, killing three of them, a police official said.
April 4, 2009: Binghamton, N.Y: Jiverly Voong aka Jiverly Wong?13 people in a shooting rampage inside a New York State immigration services centre
March 29, 2009: Robert Stewart, 45, shot and killed eight people at Pinelake Health and Rehab in Carthage, North Carolina, before a police officer shot him and ended the rampage.
March 29, 2009: Indian techie Devan Kalathat, 42, shot and killed his two children and three other relatives, then killed himself in an upscale neighbourhood of Santa Clara, California. Kalathat’s wife was critically injured.
March 21, 2009: Lovelle Mixon, 26, shot and killed four Oakland, California, police officers after a traffic stop. Mixon was killed in a shootout with SWAT officers.
March 10, 2009: Michael McLendon, 28, killed 10 people – including his mother, four other relatives, and the wife and child of a local sheriff’s deputy – across two rural Alabama counties. He then killed himself.
Hey, if the democrats led by Clinton can use the instance of a 7 year old getting a hold of his crack dealing uncles handgun and shooting his sister on time in Michigan as justification for promoting a magazine capacity ban, then gun nuts on the left ought to be able to use 30 different shooting sites with unarmed victims as a rallying cry for private ownership of firearms. Fair is fair...The death toll is now 12 (13 including the shooter) with 30 different crime scenes. The witness reports make very upsetting listening. I have nothing to comment on Mr Ockham's ill-considered and inappropriate post. Perhaps you'd allow the dead to be buried before making political capital.
Well that maybe so on some occasions, though personally I would prefer our police to deal with crime. They of course can get guns in special circumstances. We also do not have a death penalty so citizens killing their burglars and so on just would not sit so well here.
However your homicides far exceed ours. (the figures are for 2004)
England had 1.6 per 100,000 pop
Scotland had 2.6 per 100,000 pop
USA had 5.9 per 100,000 pop
Global homicide: murder rates around the world | News | guardian.co.uk
We may well. I think our last was about 14 years ago. Guns would not help us with this if the United States is anything to go by.
US mass shootings since March 10,2009 less than 1 month
and although our last to this mass killing was inside a school we have never had school children going in and gunning down their classmates.
It is sad what happened today for the people who died and their families. Let's not turn this into a pro gun rally thread.
Yes there's all sorts of homicides though our country's don't quite count them the same way. Either way, I'd rather die defending myself against a person wanting to do me or my family harm than to die senselessly like these people did. And regarding burglars - Brits have a funny thing about that - they seem to encourage burglary somehow. Seem to recall some man a few years back being jailed beause he was robbed so many times that he finally took matters into his own hands and not only was jailed, but the burglar sued him and I think won. I'll look for the news story.Well that maybe so on some occasions, though personally I would prefer our police to deal with crime. They of course can get guns in special circumstances. We also do not have a death penalty so citizens killing their burglars and so on just would not sit so well here.
However your homicides far exceed ours. (the figures are for 2004)
We may well. I think our last was about 14 years ago. Guns would not help us with this if the United States is anything to go by.
It is sad what happened today for the people who died and their families. Let's not turn this into a pro gun rally thread.
Yes there's all sorts of homicides though our country's don't quite count them the same way. Either way, I'd rather die defending myself against a person wanting to do me or my family harm than to die senselessly like these people did. And regarding burglars - Brits have a funny thing about that - they seem to encourage burglary somehow. Seem to recall some man a few years back being jailed beause he was robbed so many times that he finally took matters into his own hands and not only was jailed, but the burglar sued him and I think won. I'll look for the news story.
Not quite that long ago - and depending on where in the United State. If it was any large City - the police all carry guns. There are only 2 states, Wisconsin and Illinois that deny it's citizens the ability for Concealed Carry of firearms and some of those states like my own are very restrictive. Let me remind you that 37 people were hit, 12 died the rest injured. If this happened in the U.S., there would have been a better chance the guy wouldn't have killed or injured as many because citizens have access to weapons for defense. In Britain, there's zero chance. I'll take some over none any day.
BBC News - Man held for murder over triple shooting in Forest Gate
I defend your right to be disarmed and vulnerable. To each their own. But that's not me and by and large it's not the majority of American's.
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