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Good News - You're Not Paranoid!

Occam's Razor

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I ran across this clip concerning the NSA scandal and thought it was one of the best commentaries I've seen yet. I don't own or watch TV as a rule, so this may be a bit old to some...

 

opendebate

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I ran across this clip concerning the NSA scandal and thought it was one of the best commentaries I've seen yet. I don't own or watch TV as a rule, so this may be a bit old to some...

This one vexes me. What DO we do? My first response was "is protecting ourselves from the dangers of terrorism worth sacrificing our privacy?" (Because that of course is the justification) And my answer is NO. Then I thought, what if MY child is lost to a terrorist attack. I honestly would cast my vote for my DIARY being published if it would protect him. So the question becomes. Is this effective? Does it really protect us? Or is this just another example of fear being used to manipulate us. The dilemma then becomes. How do we know?
 

Surtr

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It was news in 2006, when AT&T faced a lawsuit for working with the NSA on a massive data dump operation. Congress granted them immunity, and the lawsuit against AT&T was dismissed. To think the NSA didn't continue and expand the operation after being given free reign by Congress and the Supreme Court's refusal to review the Constitutionality of these actions is either highly naive, or just plain stupid.

This isn't new, it's been revealed in the past. Americans would rather just stuff their fat faces and go about their short pointless lives than do anything about it, because that requires actual effort. This outrage will die out just like the last time, and all will be forgotten again in no time at all. I'm willing to wager that two months from now, Snowden's name won't even ring a bell in most people's heads.
 

Occam's Razor

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It was news in 2006, when AT&T faced a lawsuit for working with the NSA on a massive data dump operation. Congress granted them immunity, and the lawsuit against AT&T was dismissed. To think the NSA didn't continue and expand the operation after being given free reign by Congress and the Supreme Court's refusal to review the Constitutionality of these actions is either highly naive, or just plain stupid.

This isn't new, it's been revealed in the past. Americans would rather just stuff their fat faces and go about their short pointless lives than do anything about it, because that requires actual effort. This outrage will die out just like the last time, and all will be forgotten again in no time at all. I'm willing to wager that two months from now, Snowden's name won't even ring a bell in most people's heads.
Sadly, that's not a wager I'm willing to take....
 

Occam's Razor

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This one vexes me. What DO we do? My first response was "is protecting ourselves from the dangers of terrorism worth sacrificing our privacy?" (Because that of course is the justification) And my answer is NO. Then I thought, what if MY child is lost to a terrorist attack. I honestly would cast my vote for my DIARY being published if it would protect him. So the question becomes. Is this effective? Does it really protect us? Or is this just another example of fear being used to manipulate us. The dilemma then becomes. How do we know?
Your child is 100 times more likely to be run over by the bus he takes to school. 1000 times more likely to be killed by a gun on main st. Lightning is only slightly less likely than terrorism.

Now, we are spending half a trillion dollars a year, expanding gov't size and powers, and giving up privacy for security from... an active organization of maybe 5,000 serious members, and most are focused on freeing their own countries at the moment.

How do you know if fear is being used to manipulate you? Research outside commercial conglomerate "news". Seek journalism, investigative. And... fear is by far the most motivating force in the human psyche, gov'ts use it by default, media hypes it and partisan ideologies feed off it.
 

specklebang

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Did anybody really think that in the age of technology, when it is possible to watch everything, that a government wouldn't watch? How could they possibly resist?
 

Surtr

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Sadly, that's not a wager I'm willing to take....
I've been disenfranchised by the American people for a very long time. I have no faith that they'll do what's necessary to protect the Constitution, or their rights if it means leaving their comfort zone.
 

blackjack50

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Those "toothless hillbillies" who talk about using their guns as protection against a tyrannical government aren't so crazy now huh?
 

opendebate

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Your child is 100 times more likely to be run over by the bus he takes to school. 1000 times more likely to be killed by a gun on main st. Lightning is only slightly less likely than terrorism.

Now, we are spending half a trillion dollars a year, expanding gov't size and powers, and giving up privacy for security from... an active organization of maybe 5,000 serious members, and most are focused on freeing their own countries at the moment.

How do you know if fear is being used to manipulate you? Research outside commercial conglomerate "news". Seek journalism, investigative. And... fear is by far the most motivating force in the human psyche, gov'ts use it by default, media hypes it and partisan ideologies feed off it.
I agree and I do seek alternative news sources. I understand fear is used to manipulate us and resent the fact that even though I know better, to some degree, it still works on me sometimes because let s be honest....there is plenty to fear. For me at least, it is choosing the lesser evil. As always, again for me, that means protecting the principles our country is supposed to have been founded on and not giving into the fear even though it is present and valid.

Thanks for the feedback.
 

Occam's Razor

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Those "toothless hillbillies" who talk about using their guns as protection against a tyrannical government aren't so crazy now huh?
No... they're still crazy... but crazy doesn't mean always wrong...
 

poweRob

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Those "toothless hillbillies" who talk about using their guns as protection against a tyrannical government aren't so crazy now huh?
Yeah. Let me know when they run into an NSA databank and shoot a giant server.??!!!??

What the hell does this have to do with anything?
 

trfjr

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Yeah. Let me know when they run into an NSA databank and shoot a giant server.??!!!??

What the hell does this have to do with anything?
it means as your tyrannical Messiah strips away all rights to privacy you will have to accept it because of being defenseless sheep you are. as the toothless hillbillies will be fighting for theirs because the courage and the means to do so
 

poweRob

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it means as your tyrannical Messiah strips away all rights to privacy you will have to accept it because of being defenseless sheep you are. as the toothless hillbillies will be fighting for theirs because the courage and the means to do so
Do you realize that ridiculous hyperboles don't really help but actually ruin any point you try to make?
 

trfjr

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Do you realize that ridiculous hyperboles don't really help but actually ruin any point you try to make?
you need to change your avatar here i will give you one to use

94.jpg
 
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poweRob

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you need to change your avatar here i will give you one to use

View attachment 67150034
ok... please continue with your ridiculous hyperbolistic "zomg the sky is falling!!!!!" life-style. Those of us who aren't running around as ****ting our pants scared of life as you are is simply because we have our heads in the sand.
 
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blackjack50

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Yeah. Let me know when they run into an NSA databank and shoot a giant server.??!!!??

What the hell does this have to do with anything?
You don't have to shoot databanks to make politicians. Just the politicians. Do you not understand guerrilla warfare? This isn't terminator. Those databanks aren't skynet. People operate them, and people tell other people to use it. You shoot a few corrupt senators...all of a sudden they may not like the idea of people running databanks.

Even the war we are conducting overseas is nothing like what would occur here.

I swear. You people don't seem to understand the gravity of the crap going on do you? I'm not saying it is going to happen now. I am saying that if Dictator Obama and his comrades don't want it to happen and they care about the American future...it may be for the better to shut it down now.
 

Occam's Razor

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it means as your tyrannical Messiah strips away all rights to privacy you will have to accept it because of being defenseless sheep you are. as the toothless hillbillies will be fighting for theirs because the courage and the means to do so
Holy cow! Dude... are you on conserv-atoids? Are you mainlining wingnuts? Your fellow countrymen are NOT your enemy. The collective representation, right and left and the lobbyists that subvert your representation are (should be) your enemy.

Oh and... no one uses Messiah any more... it's downright stale, so six years ago. And he's no more tyrannical than GWB. (that's not a defense, just pointing out your hypocrisy)
 

poweRob

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You don't have to shoot databanks to make politicians. Just the politicians. Do you not understand guerrilla warfare? This isn't terminator. Those databanks aren't skynet. People operate them, and people tell other people to use it. You shoot a few corrupt senators...all of a sudden they may not like the idea of people running databanks.

Even the war we are conducting overseas is nothing like what would occur here.

I swear. You people don't seem to understand the gravity of the crap going on do you? I'm not saying it is going to happen now. I am saying that if Dictator Obama and his comrades don't want it to happen and they care about the American future...it may be for the better to shut it down now.
give it a rest Mr. super scared. were you all this up in arms when this stupid patriot act was rammed through overnight? I really don't recall this level of fear mongering when a GOP prez initiated this crap. its just NOW time for everyone to get guns and declare how badly they want to shoot politicians.

you partisan hacks get more hilarious the more paranoid you get.
 

blackjack50

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give it a rest Mr. super scared. were you all this up in arms when this stupid patriot act was rammed through overnight? I really don't recall this level of fear mongering when a GOP prez initiated this crap. its just NOW time for everyone to get guns and declare how badly they want to shoot politicians.

you partisan hacks get more hilarious the more paranoid you get.
I was in 8th grade when that happened. So spare me the classic liberal tactic of telling me what I believe instead of actually debating me. That is a crappy cowardly tactic used by people who can't address the issue I put down. Were you up in Arms during the Patriot Act?

The Patriot Act was ridiculous as well. I know that now that I have a college degree and have learned a lot of history. Are you telling me that because this ISN'T a GOP president that this ISN'T a travesty?

Ps

You calling someone a partisan hack is hilariously hypocritical.
 

poweRob

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I was in 8th grade when that happened. So spare me the classic liberal tactic of telling me what I believe instead of actually debating me. That is a crappy cowardly tactic used by people who can't address the issue I put down. Were you up in Arms during the Patriot Act?

The Patriot Act was ridiculous as well. I know that now that I have a college degree and have learned a lot of history. Are you telling me that because this ISN'T a GOP president that this ISN'T a travesty?

Ps

You calling someone a partisan hack is hilariously hypocritical.
1) the patriot act isn't a seperate issue I'm sidelining the conversation with. this IS the patriot act in implementation.
2) Just because I think the GOP is a rat-pack of morons doesn't mean I'm married to the Dems. I'm not.

When I ever see you divorice yourself from the GOP on ANYTHING... including this rant of selective outrage, I'll continue to retain my point of seeing you as a partisan hack.
 

blackjack50

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1) the patriot act isn't a seperate issue I'm sidelining the conversation with. this IS the patriot act in implementation.
2) Just because I think the GOP is a rat-pack of morons doesn't mean I'm married to the Dems. I'm not.

When I ever see you divorice yourself from the GOP on ANYTHING... including this rant of selective outrage, I'll continue to retain my point of seeing you as a partisan hack.
1) YOU ARE sidelining this conversation. You are fingerpointing. The GOP did this! You guys are partisan hacks because you hate it now that Obama is doing it! You sound like one of those hipster stereotypes: "I hated this before it was cool to hate it."

And like I said. Once I got educated I found out that it was BS. So debate me on what I say. Not what you think I said or what you think I think. That is a classic left wing tactic. Which brings me to my next point.

2) guess who is in office? The savior Obama! The messiah of Hope and Change! You may not be married to the democrats, but riddle me this Batman. Did you vote for him just like the other lemmings? He will change things. He is better than Bush. He is the Savior. He deserves the peace prize!! And what did you do in the last election? Vote third party when you realized your mistake? Or did you say: "well he had a mess. He couldn't do anything in the first term! He will help out now!"

See you call me a partisan hack, but the fact is that I disagree with aspects of my party. The funny thing is...we are even discussing one right now: the patriot act. Which I OPENLY told you I disagreed with. I vote a certain way because I'm conservative in nature. I believe in accountability and responsibility and limited government. I don't mean third party nearly anarchy crap, but in the political theory right wing Locke/Burke/etc. early American fundamental limitations on government.

Of course you won't hear my conversations that go against party line...because I don't spend much time talking to liberals about it. It isn't relevant to discuss it with someone like you. You just stereotype my view and tell me what I believe because you have a perspective of me already built in your head because of a few issues I am vocal on. Guns are pretty much the only thing you have heard me discuss I bet. At least off the top of your head. Piss on my head, but don't tell me it is raining with this, "YOU'RE A PARTISAN HACK!!!" Finger point game.

So let's take a trip back to what I was actually discussing...or really making a snarky comment about.

3) Politicians are liars. They are fleshy flappy mouthpieces. You are telling me a bunch of "toothless hillbillies" (my sarcasm for anyone who eventually takes up arms against the government) need to target the Prism database to effect change? It is a good thing the American revolution wasn't fought by a man with your clear knowledge of warfare and military tactics. They would have tried to sail to New York Harbor or right into England itself to fight the battles.

Do you think it is a secret that our Senators and Congressmen and Federal Judges and Heads of NSA/CIA/Alphabet soup are flesh and blood men? In the event of a guerrilla civil war...nobody would shoot the president. They would go after the low level guys. It is exactly what we did to Al Queda. You can take that to the bank. You don't have to kill the database. Just the people who try to use it.

But. I'm not saying that is going to happen. That is just how it would happen.
 

poweRob

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1) YOU ARE sidelining this conversation. You are fingerpointing. The GOP did this! You guys are partisan hacks because you hate it now that Obama is doing it! You sound like one of those hipster stereotypes: "I hated this before it was cool to hate it."

And like I said. Once I got educated I found out that it was BS. So debate me on what I say. Not what you think I said or what you think I think. That is a classic left wing tactic. Which brings me to my next point.

2) guess who is in office? The savior Obama! The messiah of Hope and Change! You may not be married to the democrats, but riddle me this Batman. Did you vote for him just like the other lemmings? He will change things. He is better than Bush. He is the Savior. He deserves the peace prize!! And what did you do in the last election? Vote third party when you realized your mistake? Or did you say: "well he had a mess. He couldn't do anything in the first term! He will help out now!"

See you call me a partisan hack, but the fact is that I disagree with aspects of my party. The funny thing is...we are even discussing one right now: the patriot act. Which I OPENLY told you I disagreed with. I vote a certain way because I'm conservative in nature. I believe in accountability and responsibility and limited government. I don't mean third party nearly anarchy crap, but in the political theory right wing Locke/Burke/etc. early American fundamental limitations on government.

Of course you won't hear my conversations that go against party line...because I don't spend much time talking to liberals about it. It isn't relevant to discuss it with someone like you. You just stereotype my view and tell me what I believe because you have a perspective of me already built in your head because of a few issues I am vocal on. Guns are pretty much the only thing you have heard me discuss I bet. At least off the top of your head. Piss on my head, but don't tell me it is raining with this, "YOU'RE A PARTISAN HACK!!!" Finger point game.

So let's take a trip back to what I was actually discussing...or really making a snarky comment about.

3) Politicians are liars. They are fleshy flappy mouthpieces. You are telling me a bunch of "toothless hillbillies" (my sarcasm for anyone who eventually takes up arms against the government) need to target the Prism database to effect change? It is a good thing the American revolution wasn't fought by a man with your clear knowledge of warfare and military tactics. They would have tried to sail to New York Harbor or right into England itself to fight the battles.

Do you think it is a secret that our Senators and Congressmen and Federal Judges and Heads of NSA/CIA/Alphabet soup are flesh and blood men? In the event of a guerrilla civil war...nobody would shoot the president. They would go after the low level guys. It is exactly what we did to Al Queda. You can take that to the bank. You don't have to kill the database. Just the people who try to use it.

But. I'm not saying that is going to happen. That is just how it would happen.
Clearly you don't read my posts. I've mentioned several times I'm pissed that this is happening under the Obama administration. It's just that in this forum people are popping off about it like he invented this ****ing atrocity which is why I have to chime in and give history lessons to the partisans sporting hardon's that they are all too happy to point blame with.

*edit... btw, your opening paragraphs are hilarious in their hypocrisy...

stonewall50 said:
You sound like one of those hipster stereotypes: "I hated this before it was cool to hate it."

So debate me on what I say. Not what you think I said or what you think I think.
too funny. Also, when right-wing partisan hacks start calling Obama "Messiah" and "Savior" you know that they've pretty much run out of content.

p.s. there isn't going to be any armed revolution as much as you and your boys get excited about the idea. Any revolution won't be brought about nor won by weapons... of which you and your boys will be skid marks on Abram tank treads or drone fodder.
 
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This one vexes me. What DO we do? My first response was "is protecting ourselves from the dangers of terrorism worth sacrificing our privacy?" (Because that of course is the justification) And my answer is NO. Then I thought, what if MY child is lost to a terrorist attack.
I think your child is more likely to drown in a plastic bucket.
 
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