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Goldstone to nullify UN report

Tashah

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Source: JPost.com

In a related story, the US State Department also chimes in...

Source: JPost.com

I certainly hope that Judge Goldstone follows up on his intention to formally nullify his infamous Goldstone Report. According to Israel, the United States, and now Goldstone himself, the Report was birthed in UN bias and relied on hearsay and conjecture within an unreasonable and compressed investigative time frame. In short, a sham.

I encourage Mr. Goldstone to visit Sderot and the surrounding environs to see for himself the physical and psychological damage that Hamas has wrought with constant rocket and mortar attacks. Attacks on Israeli civilian communities that continue unabated to this very day... for no purpose other than to sow terror.

He should also see for himself the established and post-Report corrective measures undertaken by the IDF/IAF to minimize harm to civilians. Many of these measures go well beyond preventative measures employed by other Western military powers.
 


You will be aware that people are scratching their head as to what Goldstein actually recanted and on what evidence. He says there was no policy of targeting civilians and he claims Israel has done 400 hundred investigations which so far have not come to fruition.

Some people (papers) believe he has really said nothing and others just ask why is he doing this?

I have been wondering why and to be frank the only thing that came to my mind was that he was being blackmailed so it did not surprise me at all to discover he had been subject to at least 'pressure'.


does not surprise me

New York Times article found at

Why did Goldstone do it? | Jews for Justice for Palestinians


What has changed
New York Times article
Why did Goldstone do it? | Jews for Justice for Palestinians


and what about proportionality? What about unnecessary destruction of homes and infrastructure and not taking sufficient care of civilians.

The question, in other words, is not just whether Israel intentionally targeted civilians, but whether it caused civilian casualties by using a disproportionate level of force - a crime under international law.

How has policy been investigated?

and possibly most worrying Gabriela Shalev apparently said in a radio conversation that this recantation from Goldstein would justify another cast Lead!![/B]

"If we have to defend ourselves against terror organisations again, we will be able to say there is no way to deal with this terror other than the same way we did in Cast Lead," she said.


Goldstone recants, but how much is changed? - Features - Al Jazeera English

This article is also of interest


Goldstone found that Israel’s collective punishment policy in Lebanon served as a model for Gaza

So lets not get carried away by one of the authors of the report making a really quite nebulous and as yet unsubstantiated retraction which Goldstone for some reason, unbearable pressure seeming the most likely felt the need to make. The main issues stand.
 
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I have been wondering why and to be frank the only thing that came to my mind was that he was being blackmailed...
I see. Goldstone was blackmailed :roll:

And so was the US State Department :shock:

And as I pointed out to Serenity (and everyone) in another thread, Mondoweiss is a very well known anti-Zionist blog.
 
Some people (papers) believe he has really said nothing and others just ask why is he doing this?

I have been wondering why and to be frank the only thing that came to my mind was that he was being blackmailed

The question needed to be asked is why did he play along with the lies Hamas sold him of intentional targeting of civilians, why did he even suggest this absurd idea to begin with. Theres nothing supprising in him retracting this ridiculous allegetion.
 
In a subsequent news story, it appears that Richard Goldstone will seek a revision to the report, not nullification.
 

In response to the bolded portion, the report was biased because Israel refused to cooperate.


 
In response to the bolded portion, the report was biased because Israel refused to cooperate.
Israel has and continuous to conduct investigations. Goldstone now realizes that proper in-depth investigations into serious allegations requires considerable time and resources. Over 400 investigations to date and Goldstone is now very impressed with the progress and results.
 

I'm confused as to why you now sing from the roof tops of Goldstone coming out with a partial retraction of an earlier enquiry? all previous comments were aimed at 'total character assassination' and UN bias. Now he has been placed, by you, on a mantel of credibility, unbelievable.

He has simply retracted the part suggesting Israel targeted civilians, the rest remains. Keep it in context.

Paul
 

How does that change the fact that Israel did not cooperate with the UN, thus forcing the investigative committee to depend on Hamas?

Edit: Also, what I said proves that the UN report was not biased, just that it turned out that way because Israel did not cooperate.
 
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Goldstone admitted to an anti-Israel UN bias. Miss that part? He finally stated out loud what was obvious from the get go. I said quite clearly in the other thread that Goldstone did irreparable harm to Israel. You must have missed that also.

Why are you making this about me gunner? Stay on topic.
 

so tell us, was he lying before or is he lying now

and these 400 investigations with which goldstone is now pleased with the results. what are those results?
 

could you share with us the cite which tells us that
Goldstone admitted to an anti-Israel UN bias
 
I see. Goldstone was blackmailed :roll:
No Tasha, I did not say that and you know that. I said I believed he suffered from unbearable pressure. The UN could not have chosen a person who was more pro Israel to chair this enquiry. Indeed there were complaints that he was too pro Israeli to do it.

Given his psychology and life and love of Israel it must have been very hard for him to take the sort of stuff he has been given.


Read about it The Yeshiva World VIDEO: Rabbi Hecht Confronts Goldstone at Yale University « » Frum Jewish News

It is not difficult to see that he would find listening to the hatred poured on him by the country he loves difficult to take. Remember that what was asked was for independent investigations within 3 months.

Things were going nowhere. On march 18th this year a report of the Independent Experts Committee of the Human Rights Institute was distributed on the net. It looked into everything since Cast Lead due to the lack of progress with independent inquiries allowing the same process to continue and Gaza civilians to be killed with far too much regularity, coupled by the PA apparently under US and Israel pressure voting at the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva on 29th September 2010 to give Israel and Hamas 6 more months to deal with the issue rather than go to the more powerful New York UN.


Whither Goldstone? Did the PA kill the UN's Gaza report?' | The Middle East Channel

This is a very serious issue. Civilians, both people of Gaza and those who face rocket attacks need justice and justice is not happening. Both Israel and Hamas were supposed to be accountable within three months. Neither have been.

In order to try and get some justice for the civilians this new report was done.


http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/16session/A.HRC.16.24_AUV.pdf

I would advise anyone who has a genuine interest to read the report. It doesn't seem to go with what Goldstone is saying.

Further towards the end it says


very worrying as they are the people championing the rights of the civilians.



And so was the US State Department :shock:

Please say more

And as I pointed out to Serenity (and everyone) in another thread, Mondoweiss is a very well known anti-Zionist blog.

The important thing is not their view but the information they give some of which I was reminded of having heard at the time of Cast Lead. However for the relationship concerning the care needed to be taken over civilians and this being a philosophy started with the Lebanon War, I can again refer you to The Second Battle of Gaza: Israel, if you prefer that resource.

Apart from that Mondoweiss is a good source of information so unless it is going to be banned, I will continue to use it when it provides appropriate information.
 
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Todah Richard Goldstone. Leharim Et HaKol... L’aMet.
 
[......]

Apart from that Mondoweiss is a good source of information so unless it is going to be banned, I will continue to use it when it provides appropriate information.
Very Typical for you.. but hardly a good source.

A not unsympathetic critique though it does point out his wild anti-Israel views/obsession.

Mondo Weiss - by Michelle Goldberg > Tablet Magazine - A New Read on Jewish Life
Mondo Weiss
Idiosyncratic and influential anti-Zionist blogger Philip Weiss has a complicated relationship with Israel, American Jewry, and himself
"Not surprisingly, some Jew-haters see Weiss as a native informer.."
 
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He is now the prodigal son of the Jewish people. When Goldstone had turned on them he became a race traitor, but then he returned to the fold, admitted to his "wrongdoing", and plead for forgiveness thus becoming the favored son. The pressure to reconcile with "your people" can be far more powerful than the truth.
 

I guess this must be like a mirror image to you. I am sure you raised high his earlier pronouncements but now he is a liar. How superficial.
 
Oh He's no liar, coming to an ingsoc epiphany isn't quite a lie.
 
I guess this must be like a mirror image to you. I am sure you raised high his earlier pronouncements but now he is a liar. How superficial.

I really could care less about what the U.N. or anyone that works for it says. What matters are the facts. You will not find anything of me touting the report or Goldstone himself. Agreeing with certain things that are said, yes, but never acting like there is any particular weight to the report beyond that.

Oh He's no liar, coming to an ingsoc epiphany isn't quite a lie.

That is a very good comparison. Basically it appears to be the same as what happened with some of the New Historians. It was not that the facts themselves changed in any meaningful way, but that the interpretation of them changed. They just fell back in line. Kind of like how the preppy dude might try to be friends with the nerdy guy but then suddenly hate the guy because all his preppy friends remind him that they do not like nerds.
 
could you share with us the cite which tells us that

I'm assuming it's in reference to the remarks from his op-ed



Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and war crimes - The Washington Post
 
Very Typical for you.. but hardly a good source.
If you have an issue with the article I gave a link to or with the information that Serenity gave, then why not argue against that. This is a debate forum, not an abuse forum.


Like it or not he is supported by by links from organisations like Jews for Justice in Palestine. Given that Goldstone was being linked with 'The Protocols of Elders' and that you yourself use Danuel Pikes as your main site for information on Muslims in the UK, I would ask who are you to give an opinion on who may or may not be a hate person and secondly why as this is a debate forum do you not argue the point rather than try to character assassinate whoever delivers an opinion you do not like.

They seemed to be first off the mark to give more information concerning Goldstone's Huntington Post article. Was anyone able to refute that? Have you managed to refute what he said in the article I provided? I think a major factor in this is that Israel developed a philosophy whereby proportionality and the care of civilians was degraded something which stems from the Lebanon War


The Second Battle of Gaza: Israel

I believe this psychology/philosophy is at the heart of the problem. As you will note Mondoweiss also made this link as well as presenting plenty of quotes and information which back up that over Gaza the need for care and proportionality for civilians was not up to standard. If you had anything within the article which you could refute, then that would have been what you would have done.


"Not surprisingly, some Jew-haters see Weiss as a native informer.."

I am not a 'Jew hater' MBig. Yet again you provide insults rather than debate. I took a few days watching this forum, not posting. I thought that forum is simply a forum for people who are critical of Israel to be abused with impunity. Nothing to do with debate. Just freely allowed abuse. You have lived up to standard, but the only reason seems to be you have no answers to arguments given.
 
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Remember that what was asked was for independent investigations within 3 months.
And this compressed time-frame would have been impossible for the Israeli military and judicial system. Simply tracking down and interviewing many hundreds of soldiers - many of whom had already reverted to reserve status - would have taken this long at least. Ordinary criminal pre-trial interviews and evidential documentation in the United States easily consumes more time than this. After reviewing Israeli investigative progress to date, Goldstone has apparently come to the conclusion that his original time allotment expectations were severely minimalist and highly unrealistic.
 

Perhaps you have put it more succinctly, thus Tashah may now understand. Basically, pro Israelis now determine his views credible, totally in-line with Israeli policy.

Paul
 
Michelle Goldberg- Tablet Magazine said:
Not surprisingly, some Jew-haters see Weiss as a native informer, telling the plain truth about the Zionist octopus..."
Right.
But it sounds so familiar!
Perhaps you've forgotten Your penchant for using .... "Native informers".
A littany could be posted, but one example will suffice- for now.

Remember another "Jews..Justice" group you Delighted in posting!

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/48220-myth-1-israel-stolen-land-20.html#post1058058898

Now proudly progressed to an 'anti-zionist' Jew as opposed to above, fraudulent critical zionist ones.

ECHO-echo-echo

"I will not be Intimidated by you not to in the future whenever it is appropriate use a quote from this well researched source."

"Apart from that Mondoweiss is a good source of information so unless it is going to be banned, I will continue to use it when it provides appropriate information."
 
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