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Goldstone to nullify UN report

Tashah

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Goldstone says he'll work to nullify report in UN
By JPost.com Staff - 04/05/2011

Author of the Goldstone Report, Judge Richard Goldstone, promised to work to nullify the contested report and has accepted an invitation to visit Israel, Army Radio reported on Tuesday. The invitation was extended in a phone call Monday by Interior Minister Eli Yishai, in order to visit Israel's southern communities that have endured years of sustained rocket fire from Hamas and other terrorist groups in the Gaza Strip. According to Yishai, Goldstone said that he would be happy to come and that there will always be love in his heart for the State of Israel.

Additionally, Yishai said that Goldstone made a promise to work towards retracting his UN report. Former ambassador to the UN Danny Gillerman, who also spoke with Goldstone, added that the judge would not act immediately to do so. He wants to "wait for the dust to settle" in the aftermath of an op-ed he penned in the Washington Post last week, in which he wrote that Israel, contrary to his famed UN report, did not target civilians in Operation Cast Lead as a matter of policy, AP reported. UNHRC spokesman Cedric Sapey told The Jerusalem Post on Monday that in order for the body to reconsider the report, that the judge would first need to write a formal letter to that effect.
Source: JPost.com

In a related story, the US State Department also chimes in...

US agrees: Israel did not commit Cast Lead war crimes
By Jerusalem Post Staff - 04/05/2011

Addressing Judge Richard Goldstone’s recent Washington Post editorial, US State Department Spokesman Mark Toner said the US long held that Israel did not engage in war crimes during Operation Cast Lead, in a press briefing Monday. Goldstone wrote last week that Israel did not have a policy of targeting civilians, and accused the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) of conducting itself with a bias against Israel. Toner added that the US concurs with Goldstone’s assertion that Jerusalem has “undertaken credible internal processes to assess its own conduct of hostilities.”

Toner also discussed the UNHRC, which Goldstone criticized for having a clear anti-Israel bias. The US remains concerned by “and will continue working to end... what we believe is anti-Israeli bias in the Human Rights Council,” he said.
Source: JPost.com

I certainly hope that Judge Goldstone follows up on his intention to formally nullify his infamous Goldstone Report. According to Israel, the United States, and now Goldstone himself, the Report was birthed in UN bias and relied on hearsay and conjecture within an unreasonable and compressed investigative time frame. In short, a sham.

I encourage Mr. Goldstone to visit Sderot and the surrounding environs to see for himself the physical and psychological damage that Hamas has wrought with constant rocket and mortar attacks. Attacks on Israeli civilian communities that continue unabated to this very day... for no purpose other than to sow terror.

He should also see for himself the established and post-Report corrective measures undertaken by the IDF/IAF to minimize harm to civilians. Many of these measures go well beyond preventative measures employed by other Western military powers.
 

alexa

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Source: JPost.com

In a related story, the US State Department also chimes in...


Source: JPost.com

I certainly hope that Judge Goldstone follows up on his intention to formally nullify his infamous Goldstone Report. According to Israel, the United States, and now Goldstone himself, the Report was birthed in UN bias and relied on hearsay and conjecture within an unreasonable and compressed investigative time frame. In short, a sham.

I encourage Mr. Goldstone to visit Sderot and the surrounding environs to see for himself the physical and psychological damage that Hamas has wrought with constant rocket and mortar attacks. Attacks on Israeli civilian communities that continue unabated to this very day... for no purpose other than to sow terror.

He should also see for himself the established and post-Report corrective measures undertaken by the IDF/IAF to minimize harm to civilians. Many of these measures go well beyond preventative measures employed by other Western military powers.


You will be aware that people are scratching their head as to what Goldstein actually recanted and on what evidence. He says there was no policy of targeting civilians and he claims Israel has done 400 hundred investigations which so far have not come to fruition.

Some people (papers) believe he has really said nothing and others just ask why is he doing this?

I have been wondering why and to be frank the only thing that came to my mind was that he was being blackmailed so it did not surprise me at all to discover he had been subject to at least 'pressure'.

Israel’s Foreign Minister has hinted that his country pressurised Richard Goldstone to recant the findings of the UN Report he wrote following the 2008-2009 Israeli attack on Gaza. The Goldstone Report included accusations that the Israel Defence Forces committed “war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity” against the Palestinians
-snip-

Lieberman added that following the release of the Goldstone Report, Israel’s Foreign Ministry, Judiciary and Military exerted huge efforts behind the scenes toward achieving that end; the public were left unawares of the campaign.

does not surprise me

New York Times article found at

Why did Goldstone do it? | Jews for Justice for Palestinians


What has changed
For much of the world, that’s where the story ended. Until Friday, that is, when, in a bizarre denouement, Goldstone himself disavowed one of the central claims of his report. In an op-ed article in the Washington Post, Goldstone shocked supporters and opponents alike by saying that he no longer believes that Israel intentionally killed civilians in Gaza and that “if I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone report would have been a different document.”
Well, uh, OK. Acknowledging one’s mistakes is generally considered a virtue. But is it really that easy? The original report contained 575 pages of damning details — attacks on mosques, hospitals, apartment buildings, refugee shelters. The fact-finding mission made three trips to the region over four months, conducted 188 interviews, reviewed 300 reports, solicited testimony and held public hearings. In case after case, the final report alleged that Palestinian civilians were targeted by Israel in violation of a host of international laws. But now the chairman of the panel says … never mind?

New York Times article
Why did Goldstone do it? | Jews for Justice for Palestinians


and what about proportionality? What about unnecessary destruction of homes and infrastructure and not taking sufficient care of civilians.

The question, in other words, is not just whether Israel intentionally targeted civilians, but whether it caused civilian casualties by using a disproportionate level of force - a crime under international law.

How has policy been investigated?
"What the army has done are individual cases, in some cases looking at high-level operational decisions," said Sarit Michaeli, a spokesperson for B'Tselem. "But there have been no high-level investigations of matters of policy... who chose government offices in Gaza as legitimate targets, and on the basis of what, for example? That was not investigated."

and possibly most worrying Gabriela Shalev apparently said in a radio conversation that this recantation from Goldstein would justify another cast Lead!![/B]

"If we have to defend ourselves against terror organisations again, we will be able to say there is no way to deal with this terror other than the same way we did in Cast Lead," she said.


Goldstone recants, but how much is changed? - Features - Al Jazeera English

This article is also of interest


Goldstone found that Israel’s collective punishment policy in Lebanon served as a model for Gaza

So lets not get carried away by one of the authors of the report making a really quite nebulous and as yet unsubstantiated retraction which Goldstone for some reason, unbearable pressure seeming the most likely felt the need to make. The main issues stand.
 
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Tashah

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I have been wondering why and to be frank the only thing that came to my mind was that he was being blackmailed...
I see. Goldstone was blackmailed :roll:

And so was the US State Department :shock:

And as I pointed out to Serenity (and everyone) in another thread, Mondoweiss is a very well known anti-Zionist blog.
 

ido_

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Some people (papers) believe he has really said nothing and others just ask why is he doing this?

I have been wondering why and to be frank the only thing that came to my mind was that he was being blackmailed

The question needed to be asked is why did he play along with the lies Hamas sold him of intentional targeting of civilians, why did he even suggest this absurd idea to begin with. Theres nothing supprising in him retracting this ridiculous allegetion.
 

donsutherland1

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In a subsequent news story, it appears that Richard Goldstone will seek a revision to the report, not nullification.
 

Mr. Invisible

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Source: JPost.com

In a related story, the US State Department also chimes in...


Source: JPost.com

I certainly hope that Judge Goldstone follows up on his intention to formally nullify his infamous Goldstone Report. According to Israel, the United States, and now Goldstone himself, the Report was birthed in UN bias and relied on hearsay and conjecture within an unreasonable and compressed investigative time frame. In short, a sham.

In response to the bolded portion, the report was biased because Israel refused to cooperate.


Just read the op-ed and it seems that Goldstone reached his initial conclusions due to Israel's being uncooperative.

Israel’s lack of cooperation with our investigation meant that we were not able to corroborate how many Gazans killed were civilians and how many were combatants. The Israeli military’s numbers have turned out to be similar to those recently furnished by Hamas (although Hamas may have reason to inflate the number of its combatants).

As I indicated from the very beginning, I would have welcomed Israel’s cooperation.

We made our recommendations based on the record before us, which unfortunately did not include any evidence provided by the Israeli government. Indeed, our main recommendation was for each party to investigate, transparently and in good faith, the incidents referred to in our report.


Edit:

Also, the op-ed says

The allegations of intentionality by Israel were based on the deaths of and injuries to civilians in situations where our fact-finding mission had no evidence on which to draw any other reasonable conclusion. While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committee's report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy.



Thus, it seems that if Israel had actually decided to cooperate, the Goldstone Report would have been much different. In this sense, Israel (somewhat) contributed to the Goldstone Report turning out the way it did.
 

Tashah

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In response to the bolded portion, the report was biased because Israel refused to cooperate.
Israel has and continuous to conduct investigations. Goldstone now realizes that proper in-depth investigations into serious allegations requires considerable time and resources. Over 400 investigations to date and Goldstone is now very impressed with the progress and results.
 

gunner

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Israel has and continuous to conduct investigations. Goldstone now realizes that proper in-depth investigations into serious allegations requires considerable time and resources. Over 400 investigations to date and Goldstone is now very impressed with the progress and results.

I'm confused as to why you now sing from the roof tops of Goldstone coming out with a partial retraction of an earlier enquiry? all previous comments were aimed at 'total character assassination' and UN bias. Now he has been placed, by you, on a mantel of credibility, unbelievable.

He has simply retracted the part suggesting Israel targeted civilians, the rest remains. Keep it in context.

Paul
 

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Israel has and continuous to conduct investigations. Goldstone now realizes that proper in-depth investigations into serious allegations requires considerable time and resources. Over 400 investigations to date and Goldstone is now very impressed with the progress and results.

How does that change the fact that Israel did not cooperate with the UN, thus forcing the investigative committee to depend on Hamas?

Edit: Also, what I said proves that the UN report was not biased, just that it turned out that way because Israel did not cooperate.
 
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Tashah

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I'm confused as to why you now sing from the roof tops of Goldstone coming out with a partial retraction of an earlier enquiry? all previous comments were aimed at 'total character assassination' and UN bias. Now he has been placed, by you, on a mantel of credibility, unbelievable.
Goldstone admitted to an anti-Israel UN bias. Miss that part? He finally stated out loud what was obvious from the get go. I said quite clearly in the other thread that Goldstone did irreparable harm to Israel. You must have missed that also.

Why are you making this about me gunner? Stay on topic.
 

justabubba

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Israel has and continuous to conduct investigations. Goldstone now realizes that proper in-depth investigations into serious allegations requires considerable time and resources. Over 400 investigations to date and Goldstone is now very impressed with the progress and results.

so tell us, was he lying before or is he lying now

and these 400 investigations with which goldstone is now pleased with the results. what are those results?
 

justabubba

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Goldstone admitted to an anti-Israel UN bias. Miss that part? He finally stated out loud what was obvious from the get go. I said quite clearly in the other thread that Goldstone did irreparable harm to Israel. You must have missed that also.

Why are you making this about me gunner? Stay on topic.

could you share with us the cite which tells us that
Goldstone admitted to an anti-Israel UN bias
 

alexa

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I see. Goldstone was blackmailed :roll:
No Tasha, I did not say that and you know that. I said I believed he suffered from unbearable pressure. The UN could not have chosen a person who was more pro Israel to chair this enquiry. Indeed there were complaints that he was too pro Israeli to do it.

Given his psychology and life and love of Israel it must have been very hard for him to take the sort of stuff he has been given.

He was deeply offended by those who questioned his love of Israel. One incident is particularly telling. At Yale, a banner was unfolded with listed the Dreyfuss Affair, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and the Goldstone Report. Now imagine if that had happened to Norm Finkelstein. Finkelstein would have known how to react and what to say; he would be eminently non-plussed. But the act not only flustered Judge Goldstone; he virtually lost his composure. After that speech, the judge was accosted by the Chabad rabbi, Rabbi Shmuely Hecht, who asked him, "What are you going to do when the facts are unraveled and the evidence is clear that Goldstone report was a sham and not credible based on video and audio coverage of the war?" The judge replied, much to the puzzlement of the rabbi, "Should that occur, I will rejoice."
http://www.jeremiahhaber.com/2011/04/judge-goldstones-washington-post-op-ed.html

Read about it The Yeshiva World VIDEO: Rabbi Hecht Confronts Goldstone at Yale University « » Frum Jewish News

It is not difficult to see that he would find listening to the hatred poured on him by the country he loves difficult to take. Remember that what was asked was for independent investigations within 3 months.

Things were going nowhere. On march 18th this year a report of the Independent Experts Committee of the Human Rights Institute was distributed on the net. It looked into everything since Cast Lead due to the lack of progress with independent inquiries allowing the same process to continue and Gaza civilians to be killed with far too much regularity, coupled by the PA apparently under US and Israel pressure voting at the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva on 29th September 2010 to give Israel and Hamas 6 more months to deal with the issue rather than go to the more powerful New York UN.

"Actually it was catastrophic, what they did. They [the PA] took another direction that had nothing to do with law. It was a political direction," said Rania Madi, the Geneva representative of Bethlehem-based Palestinian refugee rights group Badil, in a phone interview regarding the Human Rights Council vote. According to several sources familiar with the negotiations in the lead-up to the September 29 vote, rights groups approached the PLO mission in Geneva asking for a resolution that would acknowledge and condemn the Israeli and Palestinian authorities for failing to carry out domestic investigations, and call for the issue to be referred to New York and then on to the International Criminal Court (ICC).

-snip-

The diplomatic wrangling that has taken place in the UN since the Goldstone report's release centers on the question of whether Israel and the Palestinian authorities complied with Goldstone's call to conduct "appropriate investigations that are independent and in conformity with international standards," into the war crimes charges
. If the parties fail to take strides to hold their own gunmen and officials accountable within three months, the report urges international bodies, in particular the International Criminal Court in The Hague, to take up the matter.

Whither Goldstone? Did the PA kill the UN's Gaza report?' | The Middle East Channel

This is a very serious issue. Civilians, both people of Gaza and those who face rocket attacks need justice and justice is not happening. Both Israel and Hamas were supposed to be accountable within three months. Neither have been.

In order to try and get some justice for the civilians this new report was done.


http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/16session/A.HRC.16.24_AUV.pdf

I would advise anyone who has a genuine interest to read the report. It doesn't seem to go with what Goldstone is saying.

Further towards the end it says

The FFM expressed concerns about allegations of hostile retaliatory actions directed
at civil society organizations for criticism of the Israeli authorities and for exposing alleged
violations of international human rights and humanitarian law during the military
operations – concerns that appear to be increasingly valid.80 The Committee has heard a
constant refrain from NGOs about the deteriorating climate for human rights defenders in
Israel and that this has had a negative impact on their ability to pursue their work.
Specifically, the Committee has been informed about an initiative in the Knesset to launch a
parliamentary inquiry probing human rights organizations, notwithstanding the Attorney
General’s warning that such an inquiry could violate fundamental human rights.81
Similarly, a bill to punish individuals who call for academic or economic boycotts against
Israel was reportedly adopted in its first reading by the Knesset,82 and there are efforts
underway as well to discourage organizations that seek to hold IDF soldiers accountable for
war crimes in international courts.83

very worrying as they are the people championing the rights of the civilians.



And so was the US State Department :shock:

Please say more

And as I pointed out to Serenity (and everyone) in another thread, Mondoweiss is a very well known anti-Zionist blog.

The important thing is not their view but the information they give some of which I was reminded of having heard at the time of Cast Lead. However for the relationship concerning the care needed to be taken over civilians and this being a philosophy started with the Lebanon War, I can again refer you to The Second Battle of Gaza: Israel, if you prefer that resource.

Apart from that Mondoweiss is a good source of information so unless it is going to be banned, I will continue to use it when it provides appropriate information.
 
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Tashah

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Todah Richard Goldstone. Leharim Et HaKol... L’aMet.
 

mbig

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[......]

Apart from that Mondoweiss is a good source of information so unless it is going to be banned, I will continue to use it when it provides appropriate information.
Very Typical for you.. but hardly a good source.

A not unsympathetic critique though it does point out his wild anti-Israel views/obsession.

Mondo Weiss - by Michelle Goldberg > Tablet Magazine - A New Read on Jewish Life
Mondo Weiss
Idiosyncratic and influential anti-Zionist blogger Philip Weiss has a complicated relationship with Israel, American Jewry, and himself
When Philip Weiss, the Jewish anti-Zionist writer and blogger, compares himself to Theodor Herzl, he’s not being ironic. “I actually am like him in certain ways,” he says. “Herzl said, ‘Anti-Semites made me Jewish again.’ I would say that neo-conservatives made me Jewish again.”
To the legion of Jews that Weiss has enraged, this will sound perverse. It’s certainly self-aggrandizing.
[.......]
Of course, much of that engagement comes in the form of relentless criticism. Weiss’ blog is fulsomely, intensely anti-Israel—it’s a universe in which even Noam Chomsky, hero of anti-imperialists worldwide, is criticized for his residual attachment to the Jewish state. His obsessive focus on Israel has come at the expense of a successful career as a magazine journalist.
[.......]
That still doesn’t quite explain why he jettisoned so much to devote himself to anti-Zionism. But there’s something in Weiss that reacts intensely to disillusionment. Once he rejects conventional wisdom, he’s willing to swing wildly, even heedlessly, in the other direction. In the 1990s, he was a staunch Bill Clinton defender. But when Clinton disappointed him, he began a long flirtation with all sorts of anti-Clinton conspiracy theories. His New York Observer columns painted an image of a menacing cabal of thugs sitting in the White House and snuffing out their enemies. As he wrote in 1998, “Everywhere Bill Clinton goes, he makes Chinatowns.” He was particularly fixated on Vince Foster’s suicide, which he was convinced was part of something larger and more sinister. He has more of a paranoid gene than he realizes.
[........]
Friends have suggested that the same impulse that sent him after Clinton may drive some of his writing about Israel. Though his voice can be reflective, he seems to enjoy pulling wild ideas from the fever swamps and giving them a respectful airing. He’s particularly interested in Jewish power, manifestations of which he diligently catalogs.
[.......]
Not surprisingly, some Jew-haters see Weiss as a native informer, telling the plain truth about the Zionist octopus. “Philip Weiss is a unique American Jewish voice—a Jew without all the usual rationalizations and blind spots–at least most of them,” Kevin MacDonald, a leading anti-Semitic theorist, wrote last May. MacDonald has bandied the idea of taxes on Jews and quotas against them in order to “achieve parity between Jews and other ethnic groups.”

Weiss isn’t responsible for his fans, of course. But when he wrote about McDonald’s embrace, there was something notably equivocal in his rejection of a figure who most American journalists and thinkers would find beneath contempt. “I find a lot of what MacDonald has said elsewhere bracing and bold,” he wrote. “He is alive to important sociological trends that few people are talking about out loud.” Only then did he call him out for his open racism and disdain for Jewish suffering.
[.......]
"Not surprisingly, some Jew-haters see Weiss as a native informer.."
 
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Demon of Light

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I'm confused as to why you now sing from the roof tops of Goldstone coming out with a partial retraction of an earlier enquiry? all previous comments were aimed at 'total character assassination' and UN bias. Now he has been placed, by you, on a mantel of credibility, unbelievable.

He is now the prodigal son of the Jewish people. When Goldstone had turned on them he became a race traitor, but then he returned to the fold, admitted to his "wrongdoing", and plead for forgiveness thus becoming the favored son. The pressure to reconcile with "your people" can be far more powerful than the truth.
 

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He is now the prodigal son of the Jewish people. When Goldstone had turned on them he became a race traitor, but then he returned to the fold, admitted to his "wrongdoing", and plead for forgiveness thus becoming the favored son. The pressure to reconcile with "your people" can be far more powerful than the truth.

I guess this must be like a mirror image to you. I am sure you raised high his earlier pronouncements but now he is a liar. How superficial.
 

MKULTRABOY

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Oh He's no liar, coming to an ingsoc epiphany isn't quite a lie.
 

Demon of Light

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I guess this must be like a mirror image to you. I am sure you raised high his earlier pronouncements but now he is a liar. How superficial.

I really could care less about what the U.N. or anyone that works for it says. What matters are the facts. You will not find anything of me touting the report or Goldstone himself. Agreeing with certain things that are said, yes, but never acting like there is any particular weight to the report beyond that.

Oh He's no liar, coming to an ingsoc epiphany isn't quite a lie.

That is a very good comparison. Basically it appears to be the same as what happened with some of the New Historians. It was not that the facts themselves changed in any meaningful way, but that the interpretation of them changed. They just fell back in line. Kind of like how the preppy dude might try to be friends with the nerdy guy but then suddenly hate the guy because all his preppy friends remind him that they do not like nerds.
 
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could you share with us the cite which tells us that

I'm assuming it's in reference to the remarks from his op-ed

As I indicated from the very beginning, I would have welcomed Israel’s cooperation. The purpose of the Goldstone Report was never to prove a foregone conclusion against Israel. ***I insisted on changing the original mandate adopted by the Human Rights Council, which was skewed against Israel.**** I have always been clear that Israel, like any other sovereign nation, has the right and obligation to defend itself and its citizens against attacks from abroad and within. Something that has not been recognized often enough is the fact that our report marked the first time illegal acts of terrorism from Hamas were being investigated and condemned by the United Nations. I had hoped that our inquiry into all aspects of the Gaza ***conflict would begin a new era of evenhandedness at the U.N. Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be doubted.***


Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and war crimes - The Washington Post
 

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Very Typical for you.. but hardly a good source.
If you have an issue with the article I gave a link to or with the information that Serenity gave, then why not argue against that. This is a debate forum, not an abuse forum.

A not unsympathetic critique though it does point out his wild anti-Israel views/obsession.

Mondo Weiss - by Michelle Goldberg > Tablet Magazine - A New Read on Jewish Life
Mondo Weiss
Idiosyncratic and influential anti-Zionist blogger Philip Weiss has a complicated relationship with Israel, American Jewry, and himself

Like it or not he is supported by by links from organisations like Jews for Justice in Palestine. Given that Goldstone was being linked with 'The Protocols of Elders' and that you yourself use Danuel Pikes as your main site for information on Muslims in the UK, I would ask who are you to give an opinion on who may or may not be a hate person and secondly why as this is a debate forum do you not argue the point rather than try to character assassinate whoever delivers an opinion you do not like.

They seemed to be first off the mark to give more information concerning Goldstone's Huntington Post article. Was anyone able to refute that? Have you managed to refute what he said in the article I provided? I think a major factor in this is that Israel developed a philosophy whereby proportionality and the care of civilians was degraded something which stems from the Lebanon War

Their alternative is what is known by the IDF as its Dahiya Doctrine. Coming out of the second Lebanon war of 2006, in which Israel destroyed the Hizbollah stronghold of Dahiya in Beirut, the Dahiya Doctrine states attacks against Israel will be deterred by “harming the civilian population to such an extent that it will bring pressure to bear on the enemy combatants […] through the damage and destruction of civilian and military infrastructures which necessitate long and expensive reconstruction actions which would crush the will of those who wish to act against Israel”

The Second Battle of Gaza: Israel

I believe this psychology/philosophy is at the heart of the problem. As you will note Mondoweiss also made this link as well as presenting plenty of quotes and information which back up that over Gaza the need for care and proportionality for civilians was not up to standard. If you had anything within the article which you could refute, then that would have been what you would have done.


"Not surprisingly, some Jew-haters see Weiss as a native informer.."

I am not a 'Jew hater' MBig. Yet again you provide insults rather than debate. I took a few days watching this forum, not posting. I thought that forum is simply a forum for people who are critical of Israel to be abused with impunity. Nothing to do with debate. Just freely allowed abuse. You have lived up to standard, but the only reason seems to be you have no answers to arguments given.
 
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Tashah

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Remember that what was asked was for independent investigations within 3 months.
And this compressed time-frame would have been impossible for the Israeli military and judicial system. Simply tracking down and interviewing many hundreds of soldiers - many of whom had already reverted to reserve status - would have taken this long at least. Ordinary criminal pre-trial interviews and evidential documentation in the United States easily consumes more time than this. After reviewing Israeli investigative progress to date, Goldstone has apparently come to the conclusion that his original time allotment expectations were severely minimalist and highly unrealistic.
 

gunner

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He is now the prodigal son of the Jewish people. When Goldstone had turned on them he became a race traitor, but then he returned to the fold, admitted to his "wrongdoing", and plead for forgiveness thus becoming the favored son. The pressure to reconcile with "your people" can be far more powerful than the truth.

Perhaps you have put it more succinctly, thus Tashah may now understand. Basically, pro Israelis now determine his views credible, totally in-line with Israeli policy.

Paul
 

mbig

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Michelle Goldberg- Tablet Magazine said:
Not surprisingly, some Jew-haters see Weiss as a native informer, telling the plain truth about the Zionist octopus..."
...
Like it or not he is supported by by links from organisations like 'Jews for Justice in Palestine'.
....
I am not a 'Jew hater' MBig. Yet again you provide insults rather than debate. I took a few days watching this forum, not posting. I thought that forum is simply a forum for people who are critical of Israel to be abused with impunity. Nothing to do with debate. Just freely allowed abuse. You have lived up to standard, but the only reason seems to be you have no answers to arguments given.
Right.
But it sounds so familiar!
Perhaps you've forgotten Your penchant for using .... "Native informers".
A littany could be posted, but one example will suffice- for now.

Remember another "Jews..Justice" group you Delighted in posting!

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/48220-myth-1-israel-stolen-land-20.html#post1058058898

mbig said:
alexa said:
It is an extremely good book quoting many authors. This book is published by Jews who have become exasperated at how things have gone since 1967 though most of them if not all of them are not anti-zionist. They just do not like the way Israel is working at the moment. There is a deliberate slant in favour of Palestinians in this book because they believe that their voice has not been heard and needs to be.

I will not be Intimidated by you not to in the future whenever it is appropriate use a quote from this well researched source.

I hadn't even bothered (as I'm sure many others hadn't) even looking at the inevitable Bias of 'DeirYassin'.org'.
It's Slant beyond obvious.

But now that I have I see (to anyone who knows about this discussion) THEY'RE quoting another of Alexa's "Even Jewish Sources".

In this case however, It's Worse than that.

And fully consistent with other Blunders.
So don't be 'Intimidated' alexa..... "Emarrassed" might be more appropriate though.

She's quoting "The Origin of the Palestine Israel Conflict" by "Jews for Justice in the Middle East" no doubt, happily posted in it's entirety by 'Deiryassin.org'

So what about this Pamphlet by more of Alexa's Good/"Even Jews"?



A FRAUDULENT HISTORY OF PALESTINE
Bernice Lipkin.
September 20, 2002


PART A. TEXT
[Factual rebuttal]
[.....................]
"PART B. AUTHORSHIP

Now in its third edition, OCME's putative publisher is a group calling itself Jews for Justice in the Middle East (JFJME).
The book has NO named author, NO editor, NO address other than a post office box in Berkeley, and NO sales by the usual booksellers.

The compilers are obviously of the Radical Left. But that's no reason to publish Anonymously.
Especially in Berkeley.
Bravery is to be on the Right. Writing anything outrageous, so long as you are defending the downtrodden that are on the New Left Imprimatur list, just makes you one of the crowd.

The scholars who put this History together are said to be Jewish but are NOT named.
There is NOT even a description of their expertise. NO "Hayim Fonee is the nom de plume of an Associate Professor of Political History at one of California's major universities. The pseudonym is to protect his identity from the wrath of local philistines."
Actually, considering that the book is distributed from Berkeley, there should be no reason for anonymity.
Berkeley is, after all, still the home of the disaffected Jew, the bastion of political correctness, the weeping house of sympathy for the underdog, providing the dog ain't Jewish....."

Nevertheless, it is Unlikely that OCME was compiled by Jews.

First, its parent organization, the JFJME is most UnJewish, especially in a place like Berkeley.
It doesn't have meetings. It doesn't do retreats.
It doesn't have street theatre.
It doesn't, like other Jewish radical groups, join pro-Palestinian rallies and express their views on Public Broadcasting's Online News Hour....
[.......]
So who dunnit?

Using textual analyses and a bit of common sense, we have some clues to its compilers.

A likely possibility would be a graduate student. Someone in Modern Middle Eastern History with access to a library could grind it out in a few weeks. Especially in a large university like Berkeley with its many library facilities. If he already had the courses and had read the books, how long would it take to pull out some goodies from guaranteed "correct" sources? It could have been a customized job where someone gave him the order, suggested what the document should promote and paid him for it.

But I don't think so. It is more likely the child of devotees of the Arab cause.

The Web version is Mirrored on several Sites, but the source appears to be Cactus48, a site run by Bob and Willie Cork, Christian supporters of Palestinian Arabs.
My vote goes to the Corks....."
[..............]
They know there are anti-Jewish Jewish groups, many with
'Jew ... Justice' as their name.

Where better to hide an Anti-Jewish document?

Why hide it at all? To quote from OCME:
"One further point: being Jewish ourselves, the position we present here is critical of Zionism but is in no way anti-Semitic. We do not believe that the Jews acted worse than any other group might have acted in their situation".
In sum, I believe OCME was compiled by Christians who thought themselves clever to hide their work under a Jewish name, the better to help the Arab cause.
The real awfulness is that there are enough Jewish groups devoted to destroying Israel that the name Jews for Justice in the Middle East makes a plausible hiding place.

http://www.think-israel.org/fraudhistory.html
Now proudly progressed to an 'anti-zionist' Jew as opposed to above, fraudulent critical zionist ones.

ECHO-echo-echo

"I will not be Intimidated by you not to in the future whenever it is appropriate use a quote from this well researched source."

"Apart from that Mondoweiss is a good source of information so unless it is going to be banned, I will continue to use it when it provides appropriate information."
 
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