Going way too far

[maquiscat]

For those who want to claim that LBGT+ supporters won't call out those LBGT+ who do wrong, and for those few LBGT+ people who think they, the group as a whole, can do no wrong:

Teen Called A 'Bigot' For Refusing To Change Her Name To Make Trans Classmate More Comfortable

A teenager was called out when her trans schoolmate shamed her for not changing her name.

percolately.com

This is really beyond the pale, not to mention hypocritical, and puts a bad face on the rest of the LBGT+ community. So who's the ahole here? The cis girl, or the trans guy?

 

[poppopfox]

For those who want to claim that LBGT+ supporters won't call out those LBGT+ who do wrong, and for those few LBGT+ people who think they, the group as a whole, can do no wrong:

Teen Called A 'Bigot' For Refusing To Change Her Name To Make Trans Classmate More Comfortable

A teenager was called out when her trans schoolmate shamed her for not changing her name.

percolately.com

This is really beyond the pale, not to mention hypocritical, and puts a bad face on the rest of the LBGT+ community. So who's the ahole here? The cis girl, or the trans guy?

The OP?

 

[CLAX1911]

For those who want to claim that LBGT+ supporters won't call out those LBGT+ who do wrong, and for those few LBGT+ people who think they, the group as a whole, can do no wrong:

Teen Called A 'Bigot' For Refusing To Change Her Name To Make Trans Classmate More Comfortable

A teenager was called out when her trans schoolmate shamed her for not changing her name.

percolately.com

This is really beyond the pale, not to mention hypocritical, and puts a bad face on the rest of the LBGT+ community. So who's the ahole here? The cis girl, or the trans guy?

This is going too far but a drag queen wearing a thong and shaking and rub in front of a 7 year old isn't?

Demanding gay people just convert their sexuality to affirm trans men that's not too far?

Demanding straight men hook up with dunes and dresses so they can feel more like a woman that's not too far?

I'd say everything I listed was far more egregious and far more personal than this.

 

[btthegreat]

For those who want to claim that LBGT+ supporters won't call out those LBGT+ who do wrong, and for those few LBGT+ people who think they, the group as a whole, can do no wrong:

Teen Called A 'Bigot' For Refusing To Change Her Name To Make Trans Classmate More Comfortable

A teenager was called out when her trans schoolmate shamed her for not changing her name.

percolately.com

This is really beyond the pale, not to mention hypocritical, and puts a bad face on the rest of the LBGT+ community. So who's the ahole here? The cis girl, or the trans guy?

Well clearly the 'a-hole' is any teen who makes someone else uncomfortable for calling themselves by their own preferred given or nickname. It did not take me more than one paragraph to figure that out. We have a teenager who feels way too entitled and is willing to engage in snarky childish low key bullying, but remember, still a teenager very likely to feel embarrassed and cringe about this behavior in about ten years. Most of us have those stories in our background.

Any adult should be able to see this pattern as a yet another destructive expression of selfish entitlement, which should be roundly condemned. But we are dealing with an immature brain here. Hopefully this person will figure this out sooner rather than later and outgrow this tendency to see the world as reflecting just personal pain and desire for control.

 

[Lisa]

For those who want to claim that LBGT+ supporters won't call out those LBGT+ who do wrong, and for those few LBGT+ people who think they, the group as a whole, can do no wrong:

Teen Called A 'Bigot' For Refusing To Change Her Name To Make Trans Classmate More Comfortable

A teenager was called out when her trans schoolmate shamed her for not changing her name.

percolately.com

This is really beyond the pale, not to mention hypocritical, and puts a bad face on the rest of the LBGT+ community. So who's the ahole here? The cis girl, or the trans guy?

Why did he want her to use a nickname instead of her legal name? That was never mentioned.

 

[maquiscat]

Why did he want her to use a nickname instead of her legal name? That was never mentioned.

It was mentioned. Her name is he same as his deadname.

“I have a pretty common name, and my name is the same as what his dead name was.”

 

[Lisa]

It was mentioned. Her name is he same as his deadname.

That isn't a good enough reason. Sorry. NTA.

 

[Lisa]

This is going too far but a drag queen wearing a thong and shaking and rub in front of a 7 year old isn't?

That doesn't happen at drag queen story hour. Ive never seen that happen in a bar.

Demanding gay people just convert their sexuality to affirm trans men that's not too far?

Where do you get this nonsense?

Demanding straight men hook up with dunes and dresses so they can feel more like a woman that's not too far?

What does this nonsense mean?>

I'd say everything I listed was far more egregious and far more personal than this.

Are you perpetually persecuted?

 

[CLAX1911]

That doesn't happen at drag queen story hour. Ive never seen that happen in a bar.

And you have seen every single interaction between a drag queen and a child ever to occur?

Where do you get this nonsense

Trans people.

What does this nonsense mean?>

What it

Are you perpetually persecuted?

Not by the proper pronouns or"misgendering"

 

[Deuce]

Some random 15 year old is dumb! See, the real victims are right wingers!!!

 

[foundit66]

For those who want to claim that LBGT+ supporters won't call out those LBGT+ who do wrong, and for those few LBGT+ people who think they, the group as a whole, can do no wrong:

Teen Called A 'Bigot' For Refusing To Change Her Name To Make Trans Classmate More Comfortable

A teenager was called out when her trans schoolmate shamed her for not changing her name.

percolately.com

This is really beyond the pale, not to mention hypocritical, and puts a bad face on the rest of the LBGT+ community. So who's the ahole here? The cis girl, or the trans guy?

The request to use a different name is not a realistic request (as in there is no expectation of "violated manners" if the request is not granted).

This is going too far ...

Glad you could comment on the actual topic.

Now we go on to you trying to derail the topic.

... but a drag queen wearing a thong and shaking and rub in front of a 7 year old isn't?

First, start a new thread on the new topic. Stop trying to derail every thread that looks to not go your way (i.e. attacking the LGBTQ).

Second, with that new thread, has anybody actually said that what you IMAGINED is not going too far?
Or are you just throwing out yet another strawman poutrage complaint?

 

[MrNiceGuy]

For those who want to claim that LBGT+ supporters won't call out those LBGT+ who do wrong, and for those few LBGT+ people who think they, the group as a whole, can do no wrong:

Teen Called A 'Bigot' For Refusing To Change Her Name To Make Trans Classmate More Comfortable

A teenager was called out when her trans schoolmate shamed her for not changing her name.

percolately.com

This is really beyond the pale, not to mention hypocritical, and puts a bad face on the rest of the LBGT+ community. So who's the ahole here? The cis girl, or the trans guy?

This is the logical extension of the pronoun wars. Why not make the trans person comfortable by going by a nickname? It's such a small thing, and if the transperson is literally cringing and cowering because of the pain and discomfort he feels, then the kind and compassionate thing to do is to make this small adjustment. It's just a word, after all. It's a noun - a proper noun, not a pronoun - but if you can enforce one word usage, why not another?

Seriously, though, the trans person in the example exposes the malignant narcissism, and self-absorbed navel-gazing that is endemic in that community. Me me me, accommodate me, change for me - I said X, so you must agree with X and do X.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Why did he want her to use a nickname instead of her legal name? That was never mentioned.

It was mentioned - it was because it was the same name as the trans person's "dead name" and hearing it made the trans person have a reaction (cringing when the name was said).

 

[MrNiceGuy]

The request to use a different name is not a realistic request (as in there is no expectation of "violated manners" if the request is not granted).

In whose view? Most people don't think that using normal pronouns is a violation of manners either.

Glad you could comment on the actual topic.

Now we go on to you trying to derail the topic.


First, start a new thread on the new topic. Stop trying to derail every thread that looks to not go your way (i.e. attacking the LGBTQ).

Second, with that new thread, has anybody actually said that what you IMAGINED is not going too far?
Or are you just throwing out yet another strawman poutrage complaint?

LOL, compared to what the Left wing ideologues do around here to every thread that doesn't suit their liking, his post was positively on point.

 

[foundit66]

In whose view? Most people don't think that using normal pronouns is a violation of manners either.

I can give multiple reasons that have nothing to do with transgenderism to explain why post #1's scenario request is unreasonable.

Your claim of "most people" (along with the claim of "normal pronouns") is profoundly wrong. These days, there are a relatively small number of transphobes trying to make transgender issues into a wedge issue for political purposes.

LOL, compared to what the Left wing ideologues do around here to every thread that doesn't suit their liking, his post was positively on point.

The ol' counter-accusation attempt to justify the misdeed response.
Boringly predictable.

The reality is that the anti-transgender side has a boringly small number of tricks (which I have detailed in past posts) and @CLAX1911 's derailment attempt is simply a bad attempt to try to switch to one of those strawmen arguments.

This is the logical extension of the pronoun wars.

No. It most definitively is not.
The baseline issue actually has nothing to do with transgender issues in the first place. A similar scenario - a boy's father dies and also has a friend whose name matches the boy's father name. Would the boy insist that other people should not use that name for his friend?
The article presents an isolated incident that most people would just move past.

Seriously, though, the trans person in the example exposes the malignant narcissism, and self-absorbed navel-gazing that is endemic in that community. Me me me, accommodate me, change for me - I said X, so you must agree with X and do X.

We have an ISOLATED INCIDENT which an anti-transgender person is trying to stereo-type onto the whole population of transgenderism.
Who could have predicted that?

 

[CLAX1911]

I can give multiple reasons that have nothing to do with transgenderism to explain why post #1's scenario request is unreasonable.

Your claim of "most people" (along with the claim of "normal pronouns") is profoundly wrong. These days, there are a relatively small number of transphobes trying to make transgender issues into a wedge issue for political purposes.


The ol' counter-accusation attempt to justify the misdeed response.
Boringly predictable.

The reality is that the anti-transgender side has a boringly small number of tricks (which I have detailed in past posts) and @CLAX1911 's derailment attempt is simply a bad attempt to try to switch to one of those strawmen arguments.



No. It most definitively is not.
The baseline issue actually has nothing to do with transgender issues in the first place. A similar scenario - a boy's father dies and also has a friend whose name matches the boy's father name. Would the boy insist that other people should not use that name for his friend?
The article presents an isolated incident that most people would just move past.


We have an ISOLATED INCIDENT which an anti-transgender person is trying to stereo-type onto the whole population of transgenderism.
Who could have predicted that?

Nobody should care if they're being called and transphobic or anti-transgender.

It doesn't mean anything.

 

[foundit66]

Nobody should care if they're being called and transphobic or anti-transgender.
It doesn't mean anything.

So you bothered to reply, but the only thing you wanted to address is that word?

Your opinion is noted.
Regardless, it absolutely does mean something.
transphobia - irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against transgender people

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I can give multiple reasons that have nothing to do with transgenderism to explain why post #1's scenario request is unreasonable.

Your claim of "most people" (along with the claim of "normal pronouns") is profoundly wrong. These days, there are a relatively small number of transphobes trying to make transgender issues into a wedge issue for political purposes.

You have that backwards - today there are a relatively small number of activists who want to upend the English language, and are asking us all to cater to the demands other people have for the pronouns we use in the third person, without even addressing the person in question directly

There isn't a single person I encounter on a daily basis who wants to bother with the pronoun BS. We all grew up with you, your, he, him, she and her, and they work just fine. We are not required to refer to people as starburst/starburstself or pumpkin spice pronouns

The ol' counter-accusation attempt to justify the misdeed response.
Boringly predictable.

The reality is that the anti-transgender side has a boringly small number of tricks (which I have detailed in past posts) and @CLAX1911 's derailment attempt is simply a bad attempt to try to switch to one of those strawmen arguments.



No. It most definitively is not.
The baseline issue actually has nothing to do with transgender issues in the first place. A similar scenario - a boy's father dies and also has a friend whose name matches the boy's father name. Would the boy insist that other people should not use that name for his friend?
The article presents an isolated incident that most people would just move past.

There a people's father's who die all the time with names that match other people's names. Never once have I heard someone say "don't use your name John - switch it to Jack, because John was my father's name..." -- I mean, the request is absurd.

We have an ISOLATED INCIDENT which an anti-transgender person is trying to stereo-type onto the whole population of transgenderism.
Who could have predicted that?

This incident may be isolated, but it is emblematic of the entire transgender push these days - everything is about imposition and control. They not only want to self-identify, they want to demand that everyone else like it and "affirm it." Nobody has to agree with anyone else, even on personal issues. It's childish and stupid to think you can go through life ordering other people around by telling them what words to use.

 

[ElChupacabra]

NTA. Much of what's required to function in society is a give and take, and this is one where the trans teen is asking someone to address an issue that's about hime and not the girl in question.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Nobody should care if they're being called and transphobic or anti-transgender.

It doesn't mean anything.

It's high-time some of the trans folks are called what they are, misogynists. Since jack-a-lopes on the order of Dylan Mulvaney are nothing but insulting to women, mimicking what an effeminate gay male tends to think women do and act like. All the prancing and skipping, over-focus on frivolity and irrationality. If a heterosexual male did a show wherein he acted like Mulvaney and claimed that's how women act, he'd be strung up in the media for mocking women in a stereotypical fashion. These transwomen are quite often just caricatures.

 

[roguenuke]

For those who want to claim that LBGT+ supporters won't call out those LBGT+ who do wrong, and for those few LBGT+ people who think they, the group as a whole, can do no wrong:

Teen Called A 'Bigot' For Refusing To Change Her Name To Make Trans Classmate More Comfortable

A teenager was called out when her trans schoolmate shamed her for not changing her name.

percolately.com

This is really beyond the pale, not to mention hypocritical, and puts a bad face on the rest of the LBGT+ community. So who's the ahole here? The cis girl, or the trans guy?

I always consider that those AITA posts are very likely just someone coming up with a story to cause controversy. It's difficult to tell which are telling the truth.

That being said, it is pretty obvious that, if true, the asshole in the story is definitely the trans guy not the cis girl. In fact, it sounds like she may have the same name as I do, from her description, and I wouldn't go by a nickname either, especially as a teenager. I love my name. This is like asking someone to change their name because it is the same as a dead loved one, way over the top to make such a request and far, far too far to suggest someone is "insert bad/negative label" because they don't give into your unreasonable demand/request. Additionally, if this was reversed, as in a cisgender person got upset at a transgender person for going by their name, I believe the majority (at least of reasonable people) would also consider a request that the transgender person pick another name or nickname to go by to be unreasonable as well.

No group is immune to having assholes among them. Sometimes my sister has her moments where she needs to get over herself, claiming people are staring at her, giving her stinkeye when they/most look to be not much more than curious, glancing because any person over 6ft tall with full head tattoo (she's been bald she was in her early 20s so it is her head but not her face) is going to stand out, but especially a woman. Her tattoo is absolutely beautiful though and she only hides it about half the time with wigs, from what I've seen.

 

[CLAX1911]

It's high-time some of the trans folks are called what they are, misogynists. Since jack-a-lopes on the order of Dylan Mulvaney are nothing but insulting to women, mimicking what an effeminate gay male tends to think women do and act like. All the prancing and skipping, over-focus on frivolity and irrationality. If a heterosexual male did a show wherein he acted like Mulvaney and claimed that's how women act, he'd be strung up in the media for mocking women in a stereotypical fashion. These transwomen are quite often just caricatures.

I didn't think people like mulvaney are trans they're just jumping in the trend. Some are autogynophiles/autoandrophiles. It's just the latest it was a form of rebellion. And many of them will stop when it's no longer cool anymore.

I'm betting the next trend is glorifying mental illness.

Transphobia doesn't mean anything.

 

[foundit66]

You have that backwards - today there are a relatively small number of activists who want to upend the English language, and are asking us all to cater to the demands other people have for the pronouns we use in the third person, without even addressing the person in question directly

This is profoundly not true.
The majority of Americans oppose discrimination or abuse of transgender people. As I have repeatedly documented, the EEOC already has a standard that purposeful misgendering of transgender is a violation of workplace harassment legislation.

You can claim to be in the majority all you want, but realistically the only one you are truly trying to convince is yourself...

There isn't a single person I encounter on a daily basis who wants to bother with the pronoun BS. We all grew up with you, your, he, him, she and her, and they work just fine. We are not required to refer to people as starburst/starburstself or pumpkin spice pronouns

Personal claims on the internet are like noses.
Everybody's got one and they all smell.

One of the problems with these issues is that sometimes its difficult to tell the difference between right-wing lies and actual events. For example, there were a lot of people up in arms over the CLAIM of litter boxes being provided in schools for kids identifying as cats.
Didn't happen...

Litter boxes in schools hoax - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you want to talk about the main topic that exists with MTF and FTM transgender, I am here for such a discussion.
If you are INCAPABLE of discussing such things because you want to attack other stuff, then that's a reflection on your weak position.

There a people's father's who die all the time with names that match other people's names. Never once have I heard someone say "don't use your name John - switch it to Jack, because John was my father's name..." -- I mean, the request is absurd.

Quick question...
Do you even know my opinion regarding the issue presented in post #1, or are you running on an assumption?

This incident may be isolated, but it is emblematic of the entire transgender push these days...

This sentence is a perfect example of too many modern day transphobes.
They admit that they have an ISOLATED EXAMPLE, but then they try to stereotype it onto the entire group anyways.

Like I said, it only goes to show you how weak their position truly is...

 

[Hamish Howl]

The source is shit, and reeks of Myspace drama.

 

[Hamish Howl]

This incident may be isolated, but it is emblematic of the entire transgender push these days - everything is about imposition and control.

Isolated incidents demonstrate that the entire thing is this way?

Are you sure that's the standard you want?