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Glenn Beck Rant on Tides leads to Violence

liblady said:
to most people, progressive is a good word. as opposed to regressive.

and no, sadly, it's anti dem.
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There are progressive Republicans as well.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Yes, of course they are. I agree.
The listener, and only the listener gets to decide what is a lie and what isn't. All of us get to decide who to believe, and who not to believe. It's not up to the government to say what is true and what isn't.

After all, a lot of lies come from the government, don't they?
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You bet they do, back in 2002-03 there were a bunch of them about WMD in Iraq.
 
Mellie said:
Anti-PROGRESSIVE government.
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Still don't understand how people can hate progress.

Without progressive people in the government, and pushing for progress we'd still be in the 1770's culturally.
 
Beck doesnt upset the balance in the 2 party system and he is inspiring riots so I guess no one sees the need to have him shut down. :shrug:
 
Chuz Life said:
As I stated,... Beck intends to engage his audience and to motivate them. But it's not to incite them to violence as you and others seem to want to suggest. Beck's words are directed at the apathetic silent majority that he realizes he needs to get to the polls to throw YOUR guys out.

I listen to him just about every day. I have the military training and other resources to be receptive to such marching orders,... You might say that as a soldier,... I would find it an easy path to follow. But the words and the sentiment just isn't there.

He (Glenn Beck) has a unique blend of information and entertainment,.... he's clearly concerned and passionate about the direction of the country.

But at the end of the day,... he's just a talk show host and we are just members of his audience. We all have only one vote to cast in most elections and we (most of us) know that for all the hype,... it's not about much more than what we do with that vote.
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But you're not reading my point: I'm not accusing Beck of inciting violence. I'm saying that language being used by a CULTURE at large begins to create an atmosphere where people begin to feel that violence is justified. It's not about making excuses for the people who commit the acts. It's not about placing blame upon the people who speak.

I'm calling for people to be higher-minded with their rhetoric. Stop speaking of your philosophical opponent as your "enemy". Oppose abortion, but calling it murder suggests that people doing something completely legal are criminals who people should stop.

Saying that Wall Street reform is "the end of the Republic" - that's just plain stupid. But it also doesn't help because there are people out there "arming themselves" to "defend their country".

I'm just sick of the constant hyperbole about everything. We've become a nation of dumb drama queens and with our outrageous words we're giving fire to the crazies who drive to clinics, museums, and now gun ranges (Police: Prison Guard Killed Lawyer, Stole Guns For 'Overthrowing The Federal Govt' | TPMMuckraker) and shoot people to "defend their country".

It's not about the words of individuals - it's about the culture we create.
 
SE102 said:
Beck doesnt upset the balance in the 2 party system and he is inspiring riots so I guess no one sees the need to have him shut down. :shrug:
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What riots?
 
If we're going to ban every message that can misinterpreted to incite violence then I guess we need to ban every religious text, political doctrine, or other controversial statement.

This is silly. Glenn Beck, an opponent of violence, isn't to blame for the actions of a few crazies.
 
I think you're all missing the point. It's not Beck's fault, it's the entire media. Convincing us that this is the most dangerous political era in the history of America and our neighbors could secretly be watching us and waiting to rob us blind keeps viewers watching. Fox News and MCNBC are across the street from each other. Do you think it's like Spy Vs. Spy where they're constantly setting up traps for each other? They're probably friends who make Starbucks runs for each other.

Scary things and people dying and explosions and getting people riled up are good business and bad for America. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Fox News bought him that blackboard with the money from the advertisers paying to reach the viewers who keep watching. Everybody should be ashamed of everybody.

To the Republicans defending Beck on this matter: just because he has a right to say what he wants to say doesn't mean that what he's saying is right.
To the Democrats attacking Beck on this matter: blame consumerism and Fox News, Beck is far from the worst one out there. Try listening to Michael Savage or Mark Levin for fifteen minutes and then tell me Beck is bad. Those guys are INSANE.
To the Libertarians rallying around Beck: I'm sorry that Democrats have acted like jerks toward you. I hope you all become progressive, small government liberals like Bill Maher.
 
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FilmFestGuy said:
But you're not reading my point: I'm not accusing Beck of inciting violence. I'm saying that language being used by a CULTURE at large begins to create an atmosphere where people begin to feel that violence is justified. It's not about making excuses for the people who commit the acts. It's not about placing blame upon the people who speak.

I'm calling for people to be higher-minded with their rhetoric. Stop speaking of your philosophical opponent as your "enemy". Oppose abortion, but calling it murder suggests that people doing something completely legal are criminals who people should stop.

Saying that Wall Street reform is "the end of the Republic" - that's just plain stupid. But it also doesn't help because there are people out there "arming themselves" to "defend their country".

I'm just sick of the constant hyperbole about everything. We've become a nation of dumb drama queens and with our outrageous words we're giving fire to the crazies who drive to clinics, museums, and now gun ranges (Police: Prison Guard Killed Lawyer, Stole Guns For 'Overthrowing The Federal Govt' | TPMMuckraker) and shoot people to "defend their country".

It's not about the words of individuals - it's about the culture we create.
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I have but a short response to this.

And it comes from the declaration of independence.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[72] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

I would bold the text that I feel most applies,... but why bother?

It all applies to the situations of today.

In my opinion, our founding fathers would already be waging war to right the many wrongs of our society today.

Don't get me wrong,... I still think we need to restrain ourselves from violence,... but toning down our rhetoric is not the way to see that happen.

We have elections in November and the indications are pretty good so far,... that a significant portion of our representitives will be receiving a loud and clear wake up call from "the people."
 
Chuz Life said:
I have but a short response to this.

And it comes from the declaration of independence.
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That wasn't a response to what he said, that was senseless blathering. That's the big problem with Republicans who support Beck: they get all excited by his rhetoric but make no attempt to think about the issues. So they just start talking about freedom and liberty as though they are the key words that unlock the door to any argument.

Liberal poster: Beck should tone down his rhetoric
Conservative poster: Freedom
Liberal poster: He has every right to speak his mind but he should be more responsible
Conservative poster: Well, freedom freedom liberty freedom
Liberal poster: I'm just sick of the constant hyperbole
Conservative poster: Give me liberty or give me death! A patriot said that about freedom one time.
 
Mustachio said:
That wasn't a response to what he said, that was senseless blathering. That's the big problem with Republicans who support Beck: they get all excited by his rhetoric but make no attempt to think about the issues. So they just start talking about freedom and liberty as though they are the key words that unlock the door to any argument.

Liberal poster: Beck should tone down his rhetoric
Conservative poster: Freedom
Liberal poster: He has every right to speak his mind but he should be more responsible
Conservative poster: Well, freedom freedom liberty freedom
Liberal poster: I'm just sick of the constant hyperbole
Conservative poster: Give me liberty or give me death! A patriot said that about freedom one time.
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That's cute,... but he was indeed calling for cooler heads to prevail. (tone things down less they lead to more violence, etc.)

I think it's wise for everyone on both sides of social and political uprises to avail themselves of the wisdom in the words of the Declaration of Independence,....

It (the paragraph I just quoted) is one of the greatest balancing acts (balancing between the interest of the people and the powers of the government) ever achieved.

If I may speak frankly for a moment,... for those of us (for example) who see abortions as murder, our government turning a blind eye to our national security, the corruption of our government, the out of control spending and entitlements, etc.

Our patience is wearing thin,.... and for as long as it lasts,... you should be thankful that all you are having to endure from us is a few harsh and inflamatory words. Our sentiments are not being expressed for the sake of a good tussle.
 
Your Star said:
Still don't understand how people can hate progress.

Without progressive people in the government, and pushing for progress we'd still be in the 1770's culturally.
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Yes, it is a nice word, isn't it? However, what does it really mean? Progress toward what?
 
SE102 said:
Beck doesnt upset the balance in the 2 party system and he is inspiring riots so I guess no one sees the need to have him shut down. :shrug:
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He's inspiring riots? Where? You mean like the one outside of a townhall meeting in St. Louis where a black man was beat down?
 
Chuz Life said:
That's cute,... but he was indeed calling for cooler heads to prevail. (tone things down less they lead to more violence, etc.)

I think it's wise for everyone on both sides of social and political uprises to avail themselves of the wisdom in the words of the Declaration of Independence,....

It (the paragraph I just quoted) is one of the greatest balancing acts (balancing between the interest of the people and the powers of the government) ever achieved.

If I may speak frankly for a moment,... for those of us (for example) who see abortions as murder, our government turning a blind eye to our national security, the corruption of our government, the out of control spending and entitlements, etc.

Our patience is wearing thin,.... and for as long as it lasts,... you should be thankful that all you are having to endure from us is a few harsh and inflamatory words. Our sentiments are not being expressed for the sake of a good tussle.
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You guys lost. Get over it. You'll get another chance. You may win. You might lose. Again. America, love it or leave it.
 
You all do realize thus far the violence has been coming from union thugs and lefties here. right?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
You all do realize thus far the violence has been coming from union thugs and lefties here. right?
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The latest example being those "peaceful" progressive protesters in Arizona a few days ago.... only 118 arrested.

For those keeping score at home, that's 118 more arrests than all the tea party protests combined.
 
Mellie said:
Yes, it is a nice word, isn't it? However, what does it really mean? Progress toward what?
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Well you can make progress towards anything. Using the term as Beck uses is quite dishonest, because you could easily call the founders progressives, but I don't think you'll ever hear Beck saying that. Beck has made the term a bad word, on the same par as socialism, and he can pick and choose who to call progressive, and then bam, that person suddenly hates America. There is a constant stream of progress throughout history, things change, alot of time for the better, it's alot better to live if you are black, or women today than it was in the 50's, see what I'm saying. Yeah, you can be wary of progress, to make sure that it doesn't change things for the worse, but to say that all people who want progress, are evil, and hate America is quite dishonest.

None of this changes the fact that he has the right to say all these things. It just puts the burden on us to call him on his words so that he isn't taken seriously. And I don't think most people do take him seriously, yeah he gets alot of viewers, but that has something to do with people just wanting to watch the crazy guy ramble. They don't necessarily agree with him. Hell, I watch him from time to time, it's kind of like staring at a car crash, you just can't turn away.
 
Just sayin'...

But if it's any consolation Chuz, I'm a pro-lifer too. Keep fighting the good fight.
 
Your Star said:
Beck has made the term a bad word, on the same par as socialism
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Actually, I think it's the people who most often call themselves "progressives" who did that all on their own, by defining themselves by distinctly socialist and statist goals.

And, of course, many of those people claim the word "progress" to mean only what they say it means. Which is why they say that if you're against them and their plans, you're against progress.

So, according to them, "progressive" means moving toward socialism, and that's its only legitimate definition.

I'd say it's a bed they made for themselves.
 
Harshaw said:
Actually, I think it's the people who most often call themselves "progressives" who did that all on their own, by defining themselves by distinctly socialist and statist goals.

And, of course, many of those people claim the word "progress" to mean only what they say it means. Which is why they say that if you're against them and their plans, you're against progress.

So, according to them, "progressive" means moving toward socialism, and that's its only legitimate definition.

I'd say it's a bed they made for themselves.
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I merely view the label as progressive as opposed to regressive. No more, no less. Some folks want to progress, some want to regress. But I think they have another label for the regressives. Some folks call them teabaggers. :mrgreen:
 
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Captain America said:
I merely view the label as progressive as opposed to regressive. No more, no less. Some folks want to progress, some want to regress.
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Then it's a meaningless term, because "progress" means entirely different things to different people. There are also an infinite number of ways to go about "progressing." (To say nothing for the fact that even being against "progress" doesn't necessarily mean you want to go backwards; the status quo might be fine with you.)

But the simple fact is, self-styled "progressives" often (even MOST often) behave exactly as I described -- they favor socialist and statist policy goals, and call anyone who's against them OR their methods are "against progress" or "regressive."
 
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