Giving Putin an 'off ramp'. Personally I think we should give him the same one we gave Germany and Japan during WW2.

[SCrider]

We've got plenty of people here in the US doing their best to destroy American democracy. The Dems are letting them get away with it.

How are the dems letting the GOP destroy democracy? In most states they don't have the numbers to win state races and get them GQP out.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I understand what you say. Nonetheless, though justified, the US and world response resulted in WW2. Like Japan and Germany, Russia has territorial ambition. I don't see Putin giving in but for internal forces, such as the oligarchs and others high-up in the governance of Russia.

I understand what YOU say too, only I just don't believe it was only our response, sorry.
Reparations for WW1 were a joint decision by the USA and a BUNCH of other countries, the Allied Powers, France, Britain, Russia, Italy, Japan, and the United States.
You're taking the Keynesian view, as am I, but French Marshal Ferdinand Foch actually believed Germany needed to cease being even a republic, it had been a monarchy but Foch didn't even want to allow
Germany to claim any sovereignty at all...to the victors go the spoils, and Foch "took up a lot of oxygen" with his demands that Germany be rendered a collection of colonies ruled by the Allies.

I just don't think we're the only responsible party.
Woodrow Wilson did not directly dictate the terms of the Versailles treaty, he authored the Fourteen Points. That was his contribution.
It's interesting to note, by the way, that Ukraine did NOT receive the support it needed from the Allies at this point in time.
I believe this was a mistake...your mileage may vary.
But I cannot refer to the machinations of Germany, Japan or Russia as simple territorial ambition, any more than I could the violent and colonial takeovers of the United States a few decades earlier,
with regard to Indian lands and their peoples.

Indeed, there was constant talk in our own councils of state during that time period, of attacking both Canada and Mexico and claiming both as our prize, we even had designs on taking Argentina.

 

[Craig234]

Why this guy thinks russia is stronger than the rest of the world together is beyond my reasoning.

Nuclear weapons. That's it. If not for them, I think the west could have ended this quickly.

 

[Craig234]

I'm fine with nato having direct combat with russian troops in ukraine. We don't need to strike russia itself.

Putin wipes out Kyev with a tactical nuke. Your response?

 

[Craig234]

French Marshal Ferdinand Foch actually believed Germany needed to cease being even a republic, it had been a monarchy but Foch didn't even want to allow Germany to claim any sovereignty at all...to the victors go the spoils, and Foch "took up a lot of oxygen" with his demands that Germany be rendered a collection of colonies ruled by the Allies.

FDR wanted Germany turned into only a farming, non-industrial society after WWII so it could never be a threat again.

 

[bongsaway]

This is a very poor post, you do understand why don't you?

No.

 

[bongsaway]

You want a play a game of chicken with a country that has thousands of nuclear weapons, and could destroy the United States multiple times over?

And we can do the same to russia.

 

[bongsaway]

Putin wipes out Kyev with a tactical nuke. Your response?

Return the favor to moscow but I'm not a military person making that decision.

 

[Craig234]

Return the favor to moscow but I'm not a military person making that decision.

And then the world is destroyed, thanks, good plan.

 

[bongsaway]

Nuclear weapons. That's it. If not for them, I think the west could have ended this quickly.

I do not get the thinking of putin is threatening to use nukes so we better not do anything and just let him do as he pleases? I just don't get it.

 

[bongsaway]

And then the world is destroyed, thanks, good plan.

And you know this how?

 

[sanman]

And we can do the same to russia.

Like I said, you want to play a game of chicken with the other major nuclear-armed power...

 

[noonereal]

And we can do the same to russia.

The game is not "chicken' it is chess.

That is why having Biden at the helm during a crises may well save us from a catastrophe.

Trump would have thrown the pieces about, flung the board out the window. He would have given away Ukraine and then when Putin went into Poland would have launched nukes while screaming, "my nuke is bigger than yours!" Thank God we have Joe. I thank God every night for Joe.,

 

[bongsaway]

The game is not "chicken' it is chess.

That is why having Biden at the helm during a crises may well save us from a catastrophe.

Trump would have thrown the pieces about, flung the board out the window. He would have given away Ukraine and then when Putin went into Poland would have launched nukes while screaming, "my nuke is bigger than yours!" Thank God we have Joe. I thank God every night for Joe.,

If the game is chess, russia just asked china for more pieces. Sounds to me like putin is turning the chess game into a game of chicken. When does the time come for the nato nations to get involved directly?

 

[noonereal]

Putin wipes out Kyev with a tactical nuke. Your response?

Total Russian isolation. At that point teh Chinese would no longer remain neutral.

Sadly, Putin can do whatever he wants, if he can, in Ukraine. It is not until he steps on NATO soil that he will be directly confronted. A war, he cannot win.

 

[noonereal]

If the game is chess, russia just asked china for more pieces. Sounds to me like putin is turning the chess game into a game of chicken. When does the time come for the nato nations to get involved directly?

see my post above

 

[maxparrish]

Eventually if putin does not stop his aggression against ukraine, other countries, like the u.s., will get involved in the fight and I say we give Putin the same off ramp we gave to Germany and Japan, complete surrender. Why this guy thinks russia is stronger than the rest of the world together is beyond my reasoning.

If not for MAD (mutually assured destruction) I'd be all for it. At this moment, without MAD a factor, Russia would be crushed. We could create "Lebensraum" for sane and liberal minded Russians and other Europeans and send the rest to Siberia to make their own civil war hell on one another.

War crime trials would follow. We could hang Putin and Lavrov, his Minister of Foreign affairs, cleanout the FSB and leaders of his Unity party. We might use Putins plan for Ukraine, break Russia into small duchy's run by local warlords, reporting to an EU commissar.

Many of the more prominent war supporters in Russia would serve as slave labor, shipped to Ukraine to rebuild it. Granted we are speaking of millions of these people that must be enslaved, hung, or deported to Siberia. But its only just.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Eventually if putin does not stop his aggression against ukraine, other countries, like the u.s., will get involved in the fight and I say we give putin the same off ramp we gave to germany and japan, complete surrender. Why this guy thinks russia is stronger than the rest of the world together is beyond my reasoning.

I can tell you why in one word. Biden!

 

[maxparrish]

I can tell you why in one word. Biden!

Well, that is becoming more apparent every day. I thought Biden had turned a corner in standing up for Ukraine...but the old "don't provoke or escalate' personae came back.

 

[Phys251]

I’m genuinely surprised by the sheer level of hysteria and vitriol folks on here are pouring out. The idea of invading Russia being case in point.

You've missed some high-quality posts while you were out.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Well, that is becoming more apparent every day. I thought Biden had turned a corner in standing up for Ukraine...but the old "don't provoke or escalate' personae came back.

Obama's own Sec of Defense made a comment about Joe Biden.

gen Robert Gates comment about Joe Biden being wrong on Foreign policy - Search Videos

www.bing.com

gen Robert Gates comment about Joe Biden being wrong on Foreign policy - Search Videos

Watch videos instantly on Bing—enjoy direct playback, discover related clips, and dive into trending content all in one place.

www.bing.com

 

[Integrityrespec]

The off ramp is Biden and he's a fool.

 

[maxparrish]

Obama's own Sec of Defense made a comment about Joe Biden.

gen Robert Gates comment about Joe Biden being wrong on Foreign policy - Search Videos

www.bing.com

gen Robert Gates comment about Joe Biden being wrong on Foreign policy - Search Videos

Watch videos instantly on Bing—enjoy direct playback, discover related clips, and dive into trending content all in one place.

www.bing.com

"Joe Biden has been wrong on every major foreign policy issue in the last 40 years". Robert Gates

"I also think that the Vice President had some issues with the military and he warned the president that he was being boxed in that the military was trying to take away his options and so on and he (would) kind of rail at the generals and that bothered me".

"...but (i) did have these issues with him"

Well, that kind of explains it. It also explains why Obama said anything you give Joe he will **** up.

Hostile and suspicious of the military, and instinct for being on the wrong side of a foreign policy issue, railing at Generals...oh boy, what could go wrong in Ukraine?

 

[Craig234]

I do not get the thinking of putin is threatening to use nukes so we better not do anything and just let him do as he pleases? I just don't get it.

Conflict escalates to war, and if the sides have nuclear weapons, to nuclear war. New ways of handling those conflicts are needed to prevent nuclear war. It doesn't just mean let him do as he pleases, but it means not using responses that would escalate to nuclear war. Until we get rid of the nuclear weapons.

 

[Craig234]

If the game is chess, russia just asked china for more pieces. Sounds to me like putin is turning the chess game into a game of chicken. When does the time come for the nato nations to get involved directly?

Probably when Putin crosses the lines NATO has set - attacking a NATO nation.