George Zimmerman's attorneys withdraw from Trayvon Martin case

[Top Cat]

I thought that claim was absolutely reeeeedickalus. "Shaken Baby Syndrome." Give me a break. Come to think of it, that may be why he's no longer in touch with them.

Based upon his behavior I am thinking he also got dropped on his head.

 

[Enola]

This is why George ran.

 

[SheWolf]

That is not true. They do not conflict.
Link to the boy recanting please.
Because the mother can not recant for him.
What he said is still evidence.


lol
Yes. The unreliable ones are the ones claiming something they didn't see. That should be evidently clear.
You know - the ear-witnesses.

The eye-witnesses saw the color of the clothing. If they had been unreliable they wouldn't have gotten that right.

A 13-year-old boy walking his dog saw a man on the ground shortly before the shooting and identified him as wearing red.[95][96][97] His mother later disputed the testimony and claimed that the police pressured him into choosing what color the man was wearing, and that her son couldn't see any details in the dark. She also stated that the police waited five days before requesting to even question her son and said the police told her they didn't believe the shooting was self-defense.[98][99]

Google has tagged the resources also.

Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[poweRob]

I have heard some people speculating that he was shot in back of head, and I didn't see the report on him being shot in the chest.

Anyways, how do you the lady's description of Zimmerman holding Martin down is an inaccurate description?

You do know that forensics can look at the gunshot and the gun, and determine how each person was position and where they were when the shot was fired, right?

I'll trust that report before I just trust Zimmerman's account without question or hesitation.

I'm mostly curious of the blood. Where's the blood?

1) If Zimmerman were on the bottom and shot Treyvon above him... wouldn't Zimmerman's clothes have Treyvon's blood all over it?
2) Zimmerman's claim of head bashed on concrete. I've had my head beat with a black-jack. Skull didn't crack but when you break the skin on the scalp. Blood goes everywhere. There is so much blood under the skin on the scalp.
3) Zimmerman's claim of broken nose. Where's the blood on his shirt?​

That's what's most curious to me so far.

 

[SheWolf]

lol
Yes. The unreliable ones are the ones claiming something they didn't see. That should be evidently clear.
You know - the ear-witnesses.

The eye-witnesses saw the color of the clothing. If they had been unreliable they wouldn't have gotten that right.

No actually as a general rule and general courtroom knowledge, eyewitnesses are not reliable. Would you like some evidence?

Mary Cutcher phoned police after the fatal shooting and said the black man was standing over another man, although Trayvon Martin was already dead.[103]

Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Aderleth]

Edit: I can also understand Zimmerman contacting the special prosecutor with a plea to **** or get off the pot.

If I had a client who contacted the prosecution against my advice I'd be pretty damn pissed. Being a defense attorney is hard enough when your clients actually listen to you (which is rare).

 

[poweRob]

I'm mostly curious of the blood. Where's the blood?

1) If Zimmerman were on the bottom and shot Treyvon above him... wouldn't Zimmerman's clothes have Treyvon's blood all over it?
2) Zimmerman's claim of head bashed on concrete. I've had my head beat with a black-jack. Skull didn't crack but when you break the skin on the scalp. Blood goes everywhere. There is so much blood under the skin on the scalp.
3) Zimmerman's claim of broken nose. Where's the blood on his shirt?​

That's what's most curious to me so far.

Oh... and ballistics. I'm curious of the ballistics report. Angle of the shot. Distance of the shot. That should also clear things up a bit.

 

[SheWolf]

I'm mostly curious of the blood. Where's the blood?

1) If Zimmerman were on the bottom and shot Treyvon above him... wouldn't Zimmerman's clothes have Treyvon's blood all over it?
2) Zimmerman's claim of head bashed on concrete. I've had my head beat with a black-jack. Skull didn't crack but when you break the skin on the scalp. Blood goes everywhere. There is so much blood under the skin on the scalp.
3) Zimmerman's claim of broken nose. Where's the blood on his shirt?​

That's what's most curious to me so far.

Those are good questions and I never actually thought of any of that. You'd think if Martin was on top of him, he'd have blood on his clothing. His shirt also looks white, so you'd think he'd have a lot of evidence showing up clearly and even his own blood.

Well here is another eyewitness report:

On March 29, 2012, an eyewitness said that she saw two men on the ground scuffling, then heard the shooting, and saw Zimmerman walk away with no blood on him.[105][106] She later appeared on CNN AC360, giving more details on her account. She points out that she heard an argument between a younger and an older voice. The whole time she witnessed the incident the scuffling happened on the grass. She says that the larger man, who walked away after the gunshot, was on top, and that it was too dark to see blood on his face.[107]


That would make sense given the lack of Martin's blood on Zimmerman's clothing...

Forensics can get to the bottom of this.

 

[SheWolf]

Oh... and ballistics. I'm curious of the ballistics report. Angle of the shot. Distance of the shot. That should also clear things up a bit.

Yeah, all of that would definitely lay some serious speculation to rest.

 

[JasonI]

If I had a client who contacted the prosecution against my advice I'd be pretty damn pissed. Being a defense attorney is hard enough when your clients actually listen to you (which is rare).

The attorney that was fired today said Zimmerman tried to speak with the special prosecutor but she denied his request...one of the reasons they fired him...(all according to him)

 

[jgarden47]

Given these recent revelations, Zimmerman's credibility as to what occured during his altercation with Martin is rapidly evaporating.

This man's actions reflect those of an individual far too unstable to be entrusted with a gun and capable of evercising proper judgment - then again, this may also be all a calculated attempt to establish a pattern of behavior to claim the only defence left open to him - temporary insanity.

 

[Michael Johnson]

Zimmerman ran because he knew someone was going to take him out if he stayed home. While it's understandable to go on the run, in this circumstance he needs to own up to what he's done.

 

[MaggieD]

The prosecution has to prove he is lying and did not act in self defense. Saying his word is not going to fly doesnt mean much. What are you basing this on?

Not if he claims self-defense. That requires an affirmative defense. We know he shot Martin and he died. There is no dispute about that. It's up to Zimmerman to introduce the extenuating circumstances that make that shooting/killing not a crime. Look up "affirmative defense." It's classic for self-defense.

As has already been pointed out, the defense does not have to prove anything, just introduce enough reasonable doubt.

Affirmative defense. Read above.

Reasonable doubt is all they need. And two witnesses and injuries provide that. That provides reasonable doubt for a murder case. Manslaughter might be another story. I think that manslaughter could fly because they then only have to prove that Zimmerman used excessive force. The eye witnesses and injuries would not excuse that.

What they'd have to prove is that Zimmerman was not in reasonable fear for his life.

We simply don't have all the evidence, and the people taking Zimmerman's side and making racial comments are just as bad as the people saying this is just a hate crime.

Most of the people taking Zimmerman's side are saying there's plenty of reasonable doubt and trying to discourage people from convicting a guy before he's had a trial. Or even charged, for that matter.

A 13-year-old boy walking his dog saw a man on the ground shortly before the shooting and identified him as wearing red.[95][96][97] His mother later disputed the testimony and claimed that the police pressured him into choosing what color the man was wearing, and that her son couldn't see any details in the dark. She also stated that the police waited five days before requesting to even question her son and said the police told her they didn't believe the shooting was self-defense.[98][99]

This is interesting, since we have been led to believe the Sanford PD closed the case that night.

 

[jgarden47]

Zimmerman ran because he knew someone was going to take him out if he stayed home. While it's understandable to go on the run, in this circumstance he needs to own up to what he's done.

The obvious question is whether he was ever offered police protection - and if not, why not!

 

[Aderleth]

The attorney that was fired today said Zimmerman tried to speak with the special prosecutor but she denied his request...one of the reasons they fired him...(all according to him)

According to the quote at the beginning of this thread, Zimmerman's lawyers withdrew, rather than being fired. And whether Zimmerman successfully contacted the special prosecutor or tried and failed, it's still a really really dumb thing for him to have done, and is exactly the sort of thing that makes a lawyer tear out his own hair in frustration. I hope you're right and the special prosecutor denied his request. That was the ethical thing to do in such circumstances.

 

[JasonI]

According to the quote at the beginning of this thread, Zimmerman's lawyers withdrew, rather than being fired. And whether Zimmerman successfully contacted the special prosecutor or tried and failed, it's still a really really dumb thing for him to have done, and is exactly the sort of thing that makes a lawyer tear out his own hair in frustration. I hope you're right and the special prosecutor denied his request. That was the ethical thing to do in such circumstances.

My fault, you're correct...they fired him as their client is what I meant...they haven't been able to reach him for days and they knew he was not in florida...

 

[Enola]

Zimmerman ran because he knew someone was going to take him out if he stayed home. While it's understandable to go on the run, in this circumstance he needs to own up to what he's done.

How can he own up to anything? He's already been tried and found guilty. Over and over again. And right now in this thread. And this thread is just one of thousands...all judging him guilty.

I don't know what the hell happened and neither does anyone else, but I know if I were in his shoes, I'd run too.

 

[j-mac]

Zimmerman ran because he knew someone was going to take him out if he stayed home. While it's understandable to go on the run, in this circumstance he needs to own up to what he's done.

What is it you'd like to hear Zim say he did?

j-mac

 

[Aderleth]

My fault, you're correct...they fired him as their client is what I meant...they haven't been able to reach him for days and they knew he was not in florida...

I don't blame him for disappearing. His life is probably quite the nightmare right now. On the other hand, it's his own ****ing fault. Whether he's guilty of a crime or not, deliberately following someone he believed to be potentially dangerous was not an intelligent thing to do.

 

[SheWolf]

Given these recent revelations, Zimmerman's credibility as to what occured during his altercation with Martin is rapidly evaporating.

This man's actions reflect those of an individual far too unstable to be entrusted with a gun and capable of evercising proper judgment - then again, this may also be all a calculated attempt to establish a pattern of behavior to claim the only defence left open to him - temporary insanity.

I just read this and then I read your statement

OSU questions Zimmerman's use of hateful graffiti to raise money

Many people at Ohio State University are outraged that George Zimmerman, the neighborhood-watch volunteer who shot and killed an unarmed, black teenager in Florida, had been using a photo of vandalism at OSU’s black cultural center to garner support.

“As our community unites against hate speech, disturbing news about Hale Center image used as fundraiser,” President E. Gordon Gee tweeted this afternoon.

OSU questions Zimmerman's use of hateful graffiti to raise money | The Columbus Dispatch

IDK... it just seems like a bad call to use those images. They were spray painted on the black cultural buildings at OSU as an insult to the black community center. Now I am not saying Zimmerman is an obvious racist, because this isn't proof that Martin's death was a hate crime, but it's just another example of his poor judgement.

He doesn't seem to be aware about the division his website can cause. He isn't approaching things correctly... ignoring his attorneys, calling Hannity, and using those pics. He looks like he is losing it, and it calls into question his innocence and character.

Calling Hannity is kind of making him look like a major Conservative or something too... I don't think it's wise to make this about political division or any type of division at all. Using those images will definitely cause further division.

On one hand I feel kind of bad for him, because his life is destroyed... but on the other, he isn't using much common sense and it causes me to question his character.

 

[Enola]

I don't blame him for disappearing. His life is probably quite the nightmare right now. On the other hand, it's his own ****ing fault. Whether he's guilty of a crime or not, deliberately following someone he believed to be potentially dangerous was not an intelligent thing to do.

True. Yet, we still don't know the full circumstances/story, either. Being stupid caused a kid his life and the life of the stupid guy. Isn't it "innocent until proven guilty"? Or do I have that backwards nowadays? The man has a bounty on his head and potential race riots in the works. What is he supposed to do? Take one for the team and bare his chest for the next stupid guy with a gun that wants the notoriety of taking Zimmerman down?

 

[j-mac]

I don't blame him for disappearing. His life is probably quite the nightmare right now. On the other hand, it's his own ****ing fault. Whether he's guilty of a crime or not, deliberately following someone he believed to be potentially dangerous was not an intelligent thing to do.

Yep, probably have a good point there. But stupid doesn't equal murder.

j-mac

 

[MaggieD]

I just read this and then I read your statement

OSU questions Zimmerman's use of hateful graffiti to raise money

Many people at Ohio State University are outraged that George Zimmerman, the neighborhood-watch volunteer who shot and killed an unarmed, black teenager in Florida, had been using a photo of vandalism at OSU’s black cultural center to garner support.

“As our community unites against hate speech, disturbing news about Hale Center image used as fundraiser,” President E. Gordon Gee tweeted this afternoon.

OSU questions Zimmerman's use of hateful graffiti to raise money | The Columbus Dispatch

IDK... it just seems like a bad call to use those images. They were spray painted on the black cultural buildings at OSU as an insult to the black community center. Now I am not saying Zimmerman is an obvious racist, because this isn't proof that Martin's death was a hate crime, but it's just another example of his poor judgement.

He doesn't seem to be aware about the division his website can cause. He isn't approaching things correctly... ignoring his attorneys, calling Hannity, and using those pics. He looks like he is losing it, and it calls into question his innocence and character.

Calling Hannity is kind of making him look like a major Conservative or something too... I don't think it's wise to make this about political division or any type of division at all. Using those images will definitely cause further division.

On one hand I feel kind of bad for him, because his life is destroyed... but on the other, he isn't using much common sense and it causes me to question his character.

The only art on his website is "Justice for Zimmerman." OSU is going to fault him for that? Bunch a' whiney crybabies. WTF is this world coming to? I mean it. Album

 

[SheWolf]

Zimmerman ran because he knew someone was going to take him out if he stayed home. While it's understandable to go on the run, in this circumstance he needs to own up to what he's done.

I agree with the bolded part 100%. He needs to own up and be honest, and I personally don't believe that Trayvon got suddenly out of control and violent. The entire story with his dad saying Trayvon said to Zimmerman, "You're going to die now," and his brother stating that Trayvon reached for his gun... it's all just a little hard for me to believe.

I think George needs to be 100% honest and own up to all of this. He owes it to himself and he owes to Trayvon's family. If he lies, he is going to have a major secret to live with the rest of his life and that's going to be hell. I just can't believe his story, and I'd like to hear a story I can believe.

 

[Aderleth]

True. Yet, we still don't know the full circumstances/story, either. Being stupid caused a kid his life and the life of the stupid guy. Isn't it "innocent until proven guilty"? Or do I have that backwards nowadays? The man has a bounty on his head and potential race riots in the works. What is he supposed to do? Take one for the team and bare his chest for the next stupid guy with a gun that wants the notoriety of taking Zimmerman down?

As I said in the post to which you're responding, I don't know whether or not he's guilty of a crime, so the reference to innocent unless proven guilty is a tad baffling. Whatever additional facts may emerge, we do know the following:

Zimmerman called 911 and was expressly counseled against following his "suspect." He did so anyway, and chose to bring a gun. That was stupid.