George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting

[dolphinocean]

So that means he's guilty of murder?

Not necessarily. But, he shouldn't just walk scotch free without facing justice.

 

[OscarB63]

Of course. In the slamming of head repeatedly, it is not unreasonable for zimmerman to not be sure where he had his gun, particularly if he was stunned and confused. And in a state of helplessness. :shrug:

what does that have to do with the issue at hand? been taking lessons from sharon?

 

[Crosscheck]

in the rain and dark, along rows of identical rowhouses, it is not unreasonable for zimmerman to not be sure which of the 3 streets he was on, particularly if he had been paying more attention to martin than to where he was going. :shrug:

Perhaps, but I find it weak. But who am I to say. It will just be interesting to see what points come up in the trial.

I am surprized that there seems to be a daily leaking of information and witnesses chatter. Shouldn't that all be locked up until the trial?

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

The "coons" line of crap was discredited weeks ago... Like that would matter to you...

WTF??

You have no idea what I said, do you?

 

[dolphinocean]

what does that have to do with the issue at hand? been taking lessons from sharon?

See, you are confused.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

That may be the most flimsy alibi he used to explain why he got out of the vehicle. There are only three streets in that neighborhood and have to think after living there for years and walking his dog through neighborhood he would know the three streets. In a hurry one often comes up with some poor alibis.

Not only were there just 3 streets in his entire neighborhood, which he patrolled regularly -- but he lived on the street he spent 4 minutes looking for!?!

:doh :doh :doh

 

[dolphinocean]

Not only were there just 3 streets in his entire neighborhood, which he patrolled regularly -- but he lived on the street he spent 4 minutes looking for!?!

:doh :doh :doh

Yeah, but Oscar will come up with another excuse sooner or later. If not somebody else would.

 

[ric27]

WTF??

You have no idea what I said, do you?

I know what you have been saying, the past 2 months and its simply....vengeance. Plain and simple

Zimmerman has to pay no matter what

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

I know what you have been saying, the past 2 months and its simply....vengeance. Plain and simple

Zimmerman has to pay no matter what

Sadly, you too have no idea what I'm saying. What I actually said was ...

Zimmerman should be tried for murder. Let a jury of his peers decide. Though it appears to be murder to me.

 

[Grim17]

WTF??

You have no idea what I said, do you?

Maybe not... If I missed something there, my apologies.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Maybe not... If I missed something there, my apologies.

Thank you, that's much appreciated.

Here's what you missed ...

Personally, I'm confident he didn't say "coons." To me, sounded more like "****ing cold," which would make more sense since it was a cold and rainy night.

 

[Excon]

It doesn't matter how we try to explain it, she thinks it was Martin. And the other witness, we have a thread on that, says he couldn't swear it was zimmerman as it was dark. At the end of the day, there is some confusion on this.

It does matter, because all she can say is that she believed she heard the voice of a young person. That is it.
She can not claim it was Trayvon's.

... and the second link is allegedly of Trayvon Martin watching two others fight.

Inaccurate description.
Supposedly he was participating in a "fight club" activities.

Oh, you've discredited the experts. I guess we'll just file that away then since Excon says he discredited it. LOL

Here is another person who needs to ****ing get real.

You look mighty foolish calling someone an expert who isn't.

Regardless. Yes, the information that they themselves posted on their own sites as to what is needed to make a proper analysis, discredits their own analysis.

I think her statment (muddied by the officers) and the retraction together muddy the waters, making both of them worthless. I don't know if there is another.

Her statement wasn't muddied by the officers.
She thought the voice sounded like a young person's voice.
That is all she has in regards to the voice heard.

Not only were there just 3 streets in his entire neighborhood, which he patrolled regularly -- but he lived on the street he spent 4 minutes looking for!?!

That is your supposition that that is all he did in that time period.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Inaccurate description.
Supposedly he was participating in a "fight club" activities.

:lamo :lamo :lamo

"Supposedly" means you have no clue. Regardless of your imagination, he wasn't fighting.

That is your supposition that that is all he did in that time period.

False. That is what he told police he did.

 

[AdamT]

You look mighty foolish calling someone an expert who isn't.

Regardless. Yes, the information that they themselves posted on their own sites as to what is needed to make a proper analysis, discredits their own analysis.

What a ridiculous statement, on several levels. First, the two gentlemen are unquestionably experts:

The chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, Tom Owen, and Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert, have independently concluded that the furtive pleas for help clearly heard on the 911 tapes are not George Zimmerman’s.

...

[Owen] recently used the technique to identify the accused killer of Sheila Davalloo in a 911 call made almost a decade ago. [IOW, he was qualified as an expert by a court in a murder trial]

An article in the Cleveland Plain Dealer published in 2010 describes the 66-year-old Owen and his cohort, Stuart Allen, this way:

[The pair have] more than six decades of experience between them in the forensic audio profession. They’ve worked with the FBI and other federal agencies, police departments, private detectives, prosecutors, defense attorneys, and news organizations. Many courts have designated them as expert witnesses.

...

Primeau has over thirty years of experience in voice identification and is a registered investigator for the American College of Forensic Examiners.

IOW, you are full of it. They are both undoubtedly audio experts --

Further, you've offered no justification for your inexpert conclusion that they somehow discredited themselves, despite being asked three times to support your statement.

 

[buck]

So what are you saying? That the time logged on Zimmerman's 911 call may have been off by about 90 seconds?

One possibility, sure. There are other possiblities. If the prosecution and police made a mistake in the timeline they developed, fine. Before concluding that, I would like to hear their explanation. They've had plenty of time to correct it or respond to it, have they?

 

[RDS]

There is an article about Zimmerman's close ties with the police. He was walking unescorted inside the police station before the incident.

 

[RDS]

George Zimmerman's 'Cozy' Relationship With Sanford Police Questioned (WATCH)

 

[OscarB63]

There is an article about Zimmerman's close ties with the police. He was walking unescorted inside the police station before the incident.

A link to this alleged article would be nice

 

[RDS]

So a new twist to the whole episode?

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

One possibility, sure.

No, not really a possibility since there were other 911 calls which apparently had the correct time and went through the same call center.

 

[buck]

There is an article about Zimmerman's close ties with the police. He was walking unescorted inside the police station before the incident.

Is it really all that unusual to be walking through a police station when you are there for a specific reason? I've done that before, after a car accident. The person at the front desk buzzed me in so I could go talk to the officer. I then walked through until I got to where he was.

I've also done that before during an open house at the police station. We could go anywhere in there. Got some nice pictures of my daughter in the jail cell.

 

[buck]

No, not really a possibility since there were other 911 calls which apparently had the correct time and went through the same call center.

How do you know they had the correct time?

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

How do you know they had the correct time?

Because we know the fight occurred during the minute of 19:16 and there was a 911 about the screaming which began at 19:16:43. So if that time is right, it's safe to assume the other call records posted the correct time as well. Sorry, that doesn't solve the mystery of why the Sanford police got the time wrong, but the mistake is not on the 911 call logs.

 

[buck]

Because we know the fight occurred during the minute of 19:16 and there was a 911 about the screaming which began at 19:16:43. So if that time is right, it's safe to assume the other call records posted the correct time as well. Sorry, that doesn't solve the mystery of why the Sanford police got the time wrong, but the mistake is not on the 911 call logs.

Then I don't know. Again, you'll have to ask prosecutors and police why they have different times on their "official minute by minute timeline" then the 911 call taker's entry. I just tend to trust the prosecutors on this, since they would have (I would assume) done more research into it then I did and be more familiar with the details. But, I absolutely acknowledge they could be wrong. We'll have to wait until something comes out either acknowedging an error or explaining the discrepancy, at least before I will be convinced either way.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It should not matter what Martin's character was like prior to his alleged assault on Zimmerman, just as it should not matter what Zimmerman's character was like prior to the alleged assault. All of the media hype that tries to make this case about race, improper watchman conduct, gun laws or anything other than a self defense shooting, is not likely going to convince a jury (even in Floriduh) that a violent attack did not precede the shooting. There are too many witnesses to the fight and too much physical evidence of injuries sustained by Zimmerman. The only hope for the prosecution lies in somehow convincing a jury that Zimmerman 'had it comming' for his observation and persuit of Martin, and that somehow Zimmerman provoked Martin into a fight without Martin showing any signs that he was attacked, or having any witness that saw (or heard) the initial "confrontation", except for possibly Martin's (distant) girlfriend over the phone. This is exactly why the Sanford PD/DA folks did not press any charges initially, they must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman, the man seen being beaten and that had multiple head injuries, was the aggressor and that Martin, the man seen doing the beating, yet not sustaining any injuries prior to the shooting was, in fact, somehow the victim of an attack. That is quite a hurdle to overcome for the prosecutor, they can allege that 'perhaps' Zimmerman shoved Martin or used 'fighting words' to lure Martin into violently beating him, but I suspect that a jury would be hard pressed not to have "reasonable doubt" as to that version of events. The bottom line is that you do not bring skittles and an attitude to a gunfight twice.