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George Zimmerman in custody

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muciti said:
Bull****. There have been at least 2 witnesses, the 13 year old boy and the guy currently known as "John" who have stated martin was on top.

The 3rd witness that I have heard of stated that two people were wrestling and they didnt know who was on top.
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It's not BS. Neither of the two witnesses you mention saw the fight at the moment the gun went off. The boy took his eye off the fight to retrieve his dog which got away from him and the other gentleman left the fight to enter his home. Both missed the portion of the fight when Zimmerman shot Trayvon.

There is only one eye witness to the shooting itself and she said when that occurred, Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon. She also said they were about 4 feet from the concrete that Zimmerman said his head was being bashed on, which makes sense since Trayvon's body was found at least that far from the concrete when police arrived.
 
muciti said:
There is nothing to prove that he was provoked. Since Zimmerman is on trial, anything that cannot be proven defaults to the benefit of Zimmerman
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Zimmerman was chasing down a teenager for no apparent reason, in the dark, in the rain, first by car, then by foot.

That seems like provocation to me.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Zimmerman was chasing down a teenager for no apparent reason, in the dark, in the rain, first by car, then by foot.

That seems like provocation to me.
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What? You think that because someone apparently follows you, exits their vehicle and asks you a question (in the rain, at ~7pm)... that you then have the right to attack them?!

999 times out of 1000, I wouldn't assume such IN AFRICA.

Someone following and asking a question in the evening = attack the person??
 
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ecofarm said:
It's not possible to provoke someone into committing battery, except by committing a forcible felony. Thus, the only thing that matters is that M committed a forcible felony first.
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That's not true at all.

Let's say someone legally pulls out a gun. If you reasonably believe they are about to shoot you, you have the right to strike them first in self defense.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Zimmerman was chasing down a teenager for no apparent reason, in the dark, in the rain, first by car, then by foot.

That seems like provocation to me.
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Maybe to you. But you are not the law. Legally, following someone is not enough to warrant being beaten to death.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
It's not BS. Neither of the two witnesses you mention saw the fight at the moment the gun went off. The boy took his eye off the fight to retrieve his dog which got away from him and the other gentleman left the fight to enter his home. Both missed the portion of the fight when Zimmerman shot Trayvon.

There is only one eye witness to the shooting itself and she said when that occurred, Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon. She also said they were about 4 feet from the concrete that Zimmerman said his head was being bashed on, which makes sense since Trayvon's body was found at least that far from the concrete when police arrived.
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You say "portion of the fight" like it was a 12 round bout. The entirety of Zimmerman hanging up to the shot being fired was roughly one minute according to the police.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Zimmerman was chasing down a teenager for no apparent reason, in the dark, in the rain, first by car, then by foot.

That seems like provocation to me.
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That would go to reasonable man standard..........
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
That's not true at all.

Let's say someone legally pulls out a gun. If you reasonably believe they are about to shoot you, you have the right to strike them first in self defense.
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Completely true. Pulling a gun on someone is a forcible felony. You are now arguing that Z committed a forcible felony first.

Are you claiming that this "harmless child" charged a gun barehanded?
 
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ecofarm said:
What? You think that because someone apparently follows you, exits their vehicle and asks you a question (in the rain, at ~7pm)... that you then have the right to attack them?!
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When you're a law-abiding minor, walking back to your residence from buying candy, and you're being followed in that manner, I believe you do have reason to believe that person poses an imminent threat to your safety and I would accept self defense as a genuine response to attacking Zimmerman.

Especially given that Zimmerman was reaching for something and it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to think he could be reaching for a weapon.

From Trayvon's perspective, there was absolutely no reason to be followed like that unless Zimmerman was the one who was up to no good. He had every right to defend himself.
 
muciti said:
Maybe to you. But you are not the law. Legally, following someone is not enough to warrant being beaten to death.
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There is no evidence Trayvon was beating Zimmerman to death. If you recall, he was armed with a bag of Skittles.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Zimmerman was chasing down a teenager for no apparent reason, in the dark, in the rain, first by car, then by foot.

That seems like provocation to me.
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Not chasing. Its following

At least, you are acknowledging that it *seems*. Your *guess* is.... there was some type of provocation.

You do have a reasonable doubt. You are not 100% sure
 
muciti said:
You say "portion of the fight" like it was a 12 round bout. The entirety of Zimmerman hanging up to the shot being fired was roughly one minute according to the police.
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And during that time, a couple of witnesses said they saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, but looked away before the shooting. Another witness said she was watching at the time of the shooting and by that time, Zimmerman had gotten on top of Trayvon and then shot him.

She was the only one to see the actual shooting.
 
One witness, the anonymous one on Anderson Cooper 360 described it as TWO scuffles.

So it's possible that each one of them could have been on top at some point.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
When you're a law-abiding minor, walking back to your residence from buying candy, and you're being followed in that manner, I believe you do have reason to believe that person poses an imminent threat to your safety and I would accept self defense as a genuine response to attacking Zimmerman.

Especially given that Zimmerman was reaching for something and it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to think he could be reaching for a weapon.

From Trayvon's perspective, there was absolutely no reason to be followed like that unless Zimmerman was the one who was up to no good. He had every right to defend himself.
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SHeik thats all supposition and opinion on your part, just like everyone elses...there may be alot more information that the police, prosecutors and defense attorney knows about. NO ONE knows exactly what occurred and one bit of evidence could change the entire outcome of the trial.
I agree with you entirely that on the surface it appears that a 17 yr old was followed and for all intents stalked by zimmerman and subsequently got shot.
Ive been around too many incidents to take that as gospel at this point.
We need to let the trial proceed have both sides bring out their evidence and let the chips fall.....all the rhetoric isnt doing anyone or the situation any good.
 
ric27 said:
Not chasing. Its following

At least, you are acknowledging that it *seems*. Your *guess* is.... there was some type of provocation.

You do have a reasonable doubt. You are not 100% sure
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I haven't heard all of the evidence.
 
muciti said:
The entirety of Zimmerman hanging up to the shot being fired was roughly one minute according to the police.
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You are off by at least one minute.

It's one minute from when M and the girl were disconnected. Z's call to the PD was over before then.
I posted a timeline somewhere.

http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/


Z's call ends at about 7:13:41pm

The girl's c all w/ M ends about 7:16

The shot is sometime after than but before about 7:17 when the cops arrive.

So I think it's closer to 2.5 or 3 minutes from "Zimmerman hanging up to the shot being fired" than 1 minute.
 
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Sheik Yerbuti said:
When you're a law-abiding minor, walking back to your residence from buying candy, and you're being followed in that manner, I believe you do have reason to believe that person poses an imminent threat to your safety and I would accept self defense as a genuine response to attacking Zimmerman.
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This perspective is not legitimate. It was early evening, he was asked "why are you here" in the middle of an apartment complex.

Especially given that Zimmerman was reaching for something and it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to think he could be reaching for a weapon.
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What reason does M have to believe he is about to be attacked?

From Trayvon's perspective, there was absolutely no reason to be followed like that unless Zimmerman was the one who was up to no good. He had every right to defend himself.
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That's nonsense. It could be an aquaintence, an off-duty cop who is suspicious. A security guard leaving work who is suspicious. The answer to the question was: "Staying with my father at his girlfriend's" NOT an attack.




I have a question: Was M profiling?
 
The Retreat at Twin Lakes townhouse complex where Trayvon was killed was built between 2004-2006. It was intended for higher income families, the initial cost of a townhouse was $250,000.

Five years later prices have dipped below $100,000. Fifteen percent of the homes sit vacant and more than half the residents are renters.

In September 2011, a Neighborhood Watch group was established with the help of the Sanford police.

So between Sept 2011 and Feb 2012 GZ managed to shoot a visiting black teen.
 
sharon said:
The Retreat at Twin Lakes townhouse complex where Trayvon was killed was built between 2004-2006. It was intended for higher income families, the initial cost of a townhouse was $250,000.

Five years later prices have dipped below $100,000. Fifteen percent of the homes sit vacant and more than half the residents are renters.

In September 2011, a Neighborhood Watch group was established with the help of the Sanford police.

So between Sept 2011 and Feb 2012 GZ managed to shoot a visiting black teen.
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How is any of this relevent?
 
Sharon, are you going to explain to us how your maps had two very different locations for Z's vehicle. Did you make those maps yourself?
 
ecofarm said:
Sharon, are you going to explain to us how your maps had two very different locations for Z's vehicle. Did you make those maps yourself?
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It was already explained.. Zimmerman parked twice.

No I didn't create the maps.. Why don't you click on "properties" and find their origins.
 
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