From the people who want $15 an hour minimum wage for unskilled workers

[Jack Fabulous]

The bones of a successful business is the mailroom, without us, the contracts(the business) doesn't get where it's going. And if the business doesn't get where it needs to be then no revenue comes in. Mailroom, facilities, hoteling, conference services, without any of this a business can't function. It's the glue that holds it together.

Functions like the mail room are vital to a business and I don't think anyone would disagree. When we're talking about "value", though, there is a clear distinction between the people that sort the mail and the people that generate the business that produces the mail. If one of the best employees in the mail room leaves the company, I can call one of dozens of local temp agencies and get an adequate replacement in a matter of a few days.

When a top account executive or a top engineer leaves the company finding a replacement can take months or longer and in the meantime it can cost the company huge sums of money due to lost revenue. In some cases these people are so vital to the company's success that they literally ARE irreplaceable.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Tax returns don't require certified mail, and can be electronically transmitted.

Your job is labor intensive, so what. Lots of us have work that is labor intensive. What makes you think you're special?

In many states e-file PDF's will not hold up legally in a court of law. We handle corporate business taxes which must me submitted via certified mail.

 

[Blue_State]

Can't email notarized documents, and tax returns in most states. On the 15th of last month my facility processed over ten thousand outgoing tax returns via certified mail. Any clue what that entails and how labor intensive that is? Without us it would all go to ****, heck we should unionize.

Your entire department can be outsourced. It isn't the backbone of the company. Sorry.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Your entire department can be outsourced. It isn't the backbone of the company. Sorry.

It WAS outsourced prior to me being hired three years ago. They had minimum wage people here that ended up costing the company major revenue, which is why they moved away from outsourcing and went back to hiring in-house. You get what you pay for. This whole "outsourcing, lets get worker bees for as cheap as we can get them" is a cancer.

 

[HenryChinaski]

so you work for something like a price waterhouse, in one of their regional offices

and the local partners have made every employee feel needed and wanted

brilliant....

dont disagree with their management philosophy or their team building skills

i do disagree that the ceo/cfo/vp's in that organization would think the night cleaning staff is just as important as they are

replacing janitorial staff is fairly simple....replacing executives in a company like that....not so much

kinda different skill set.....

One can't operate without the other. Yin and yang.

 

[countryboy]

One can't operate without the other. Yin and yang.

Are you saying they both deserve the same compensation?

 

[HenryChinaski]

Are you saying they both deserve the same compensation?

No that's not what I'm saying, The big wigs make insane amounts of money ad that's fine, it's all relative. My friend is a Software designer here and he makes $135,000(without a degree in that field mind you) However the services people should still be paid well. Not a minimum outsourcing wage, "don't like the money, there's the door, this is what the "market dictates" slave wage" Pay well above what the next guy is paying and you'll get employee retention and quality performance. Throw the peasants a tad more dough and they're happy.

 

[countryboy]

No that's not what I'm saying, The big wigs make insane amounts of money ad that's fine, it's all relative. My friend is a Software designer here and he makes $135,000(without a degree in that field mind you) However the services people should still be paid well. Not a minimum outsourcing wage, "don't like the money, there's the door, this is what the "market dictates" slave wage" Pay well above what the next guy is paying and you'll get employee retention and quality performance. Throw the peasants a tad more dough and they're happy.

I don't totally disagree with you on that, except for the slave reference. There are companies out there that treat their employees the way you describe. Why not go to work for one of them?

 

[gdgyva]

One can't operate without the other. Yin and yang.

actually you can.....

in a pinch, every other employee can fill in for low/no skill positions

i have seen it done numerous times over 30+ years when money is tight, and layoffs are happening

give your accountants a choice of their job + taking out the trash, or no job at all, and it is an easy decision

indians are needed in every organization.....not everyone can be, or wants to be the chief

but saying that the expendable brave is more important than the chief....well, thats just asinine

tell yourself whatever you like to make yourself feel better.....

but when the proverbial **** hits the fan, the cfo's job is fairly secure.....yours, and the other indians in the office....not so much

 

[HenryChinaski]

I don't totally disagree with you on that, except for the slave reference. There are companies out there that treat their employees the way you describe. Why not go to work for one of them?

I got lucky, they found me. Prior to this gig, I was working for an outsourcing company placed at a mega law-firm doing the job of four people, treated as a non-entity making a slave wage. I was biding my time because I needed the paycheck. Then my current employer found me and brought me on board. That law firm continues to have high turnover and poor performance and they don't care, when someone ****s up, the outsourcing company just brings in fresh fish(as they called them). They place zero value on the court-runners and those printing the documents, the ones doing really hard, tedious work. Where I work now is a complete juxtaposition and their success is a reflection of that.

 

[tres borrachos]

I got lucky, they found me. Prior to this gig, I was working for an outsourcing company placed at a mega law-firm doing the job of four people, treated as a non-entity making a slave wage. I was biding my time because I needed the paycheck. Then my current employer found me and brought me on board. That law firm continues to have high turnover and poor performance and they don't care, when someone ****s up, the outsourcing company just brings in fresh fish(as they called them). They place zero value on the court-runners and those printing the documents, the ones doing really hard, tedious work. Where I work now is a complete juxtaposition and their success is a reflection of that.

The law firm wasn't paying you. They were paying your employer who was their contractor. Your employer paid you. That's what outsourcing is. Your issue should have been with your employer, not the law firm.

Your posts are all across the board in this thread and I'm sorry, but some of them just are not ringing true.

 

[Blue_State]

It WAS outsourced prior to me being hired three years ago. They had minimum wage people here that ended up costing the company major revenue, which is why they moved away from outsourcing and went back to hiring in-house. You get what you pay for. This whole "outsourcing, lets get worker bees for as cheap as we can get them" is a cancer.

Reminds me of a personal experience. I have two dunkin donuts that are on my path to work. Both have the same products and prices. One of the dunkin donuts started having longer wait times and the service was off (coffee not made right, bagels not toasted). I could have stopped going to to dunkin donuts all together, gone to a more expensive competitor or try another dunkin donuts. I did that. I am happy with the outcome. Your company could have easily hired another company to do the work, the same way I did when I order my dunkin donuts.

 

[VanceMack]

Fortunately, I work a company that doesn't share that view. I sort and process mail, deliver packages and I make a good buck well above the $15 that the right wingers feel isn't warranted for people who work for a living. My employer pays the "low people on the totem pole" a good buck because they know how valuable we are to them.

No they dont. They pay you because its what the market and profit margin in their budget will bear and still allow them to make a significant profit. if you are a mail sorter they have to compete with US Postal because it costs them money to replace workers if they bail to a different/better job.

Deuce IS correct. ALL wages would go up. As would the cost of employing people. as would the cost of goods and services to be able to sustain those increased wages. As would the cost of product to consumers. And pretty soon, that 15 dollar an hour wage looks an awful lot like 7.25. In the meantime, employers hire fewer people and people on fixed retirement and ad government social spending incomes get their ass handed to them. Until of course there are demands for increases there. Which means greater debt holes, more taxes, more deficits.

Lord...when will people finally get it that the answer is NOT to take a job done by unskilled laborers and make it a 'middle income job' but to in fact create more middle income jobs?

 

[Archangel]

No that's not what I'm saying, The big wigs make insane amounts of money ad that's fine, it's all relative. My friend is a Software designer here and he makes $135,000(without a degree in that field mind you) However the services people should still be paid well. Not a minimum outsourcing wage, "don't like the money, there's the door, this is what the "market dictates" slave wage" Pay well above what the next guy is paying and you'll get employee retention and quality performance. Throw the peasants a tad more dough and they're happy.

Somehow I don't think "pay people more and you'll get better work" actually works any better than, "give more money to education and education will improve." In fact, as I see it, quite the opposite is the usual result.

 

[HenryChinaski]

The law firm wasn't paying you. They were paying your employer who was their contractor. Your employer paid you. That's what outsourcing is. Your issue should have been with your employer, not the law firm.

Your posts are all across the board in this thread and I'm sorry, but some of them just are not ringing true.

It was cheaper to go to an outsourcing company to get the cattle. One flat fee, don't have to worry about providing any benefits. More of the revenue stays at the top of the food chain. That's one way to run a business however you get what you pay for.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Reminds me of a personal experience. I have two dunkin donuts that are on my path to work. Both have the same products and prices. One of the dunkin donuts started having longer wait times and the service was off (coffee not made right, bagels not toasted). I could have stopped going to to dunkin donuts all together, gone to a more expensive competitor or try another dunkin donuts. I did that. I am happy with the outcome. Your company could have easily hired another company to do the work, the same way I did when I order my dunkin donuts.

Why risk it? Hire in-house based on your businesses standards and criteria. Train the employees to your standards and how you expect tasks to be performed. I worked for Pitney Bowes and Ikon. I am well aware of the quality of people that they place at sites. Bottom barrel, semi literate individuals, although they get them for dirt cheap so they don't care.

 

[rhinefire]

" I want it all and I want it now".

 

[HenryChinaski]

Somehow I don't think "pay people more and you'll get better work" actually works any better than, "give more money to education and education will improve." In fact, as I see it, quite the opposite is the usual result.

Money is the great motivator. They hired me at 35,000 to sort mail, process incoming/outgoing items etc. However it's nearly impossible to get a position here. Less than 5% of applicants get hired and I didn't even go to them, they found and recruited me based on my expertise. They realize the value of work performance.

 

[Deuce]

Why should it? It is more likely that he would either be earning minimum wage or he would lose his job because the minimum wage is now more than the job is worth to the company. If you don't believe me, ask the next guy who pumps your gas, or the next bathroom attendant you see, or one of the many other jobs that have been phased out due to minimum wage laws.

Um, look. If I employ graphics designers for $15/hour, but people can just take a job cleaning toilets for $15/hour, now I am competing against every one of those job openings as well as other graphics designer job openings. You're absolutely right, why would people bother to learn the skill to fill my position if they could make the same amount doing something easier?

So either the position sits empty and my company suffers, or I offer more money. Which do you think I'll choose?

If a particular job really just isn't worth minimum wage, and can so easily be done away with like bathroom attendants and gas pumpers, maybe that's a job that doesn't need to exist. Gas pumpers and bathroom attendants weren't phased out because of minimum wage laws. They were phased out because those jobs served no other purpose than to give you something to feel superior about.

On the other hand, if a job really is necessary for company operations, maybe it should pay enough for people to feed themselves.

 

[Captain America]

$15 an hour to scrub toilets or $13 an hour to be a graphic designer. Gee......makes sense to me. What's the problem here?

I hear ya.

I would rather be a graphic designer for 13.00 and hour than a toilet scrubber for 15.00.

 

[Deuce]

I hear ya.

I would rather be a graphic designer for 13.00 and hour than a toilet scrubber for 15.00.

In libertopia, number of dollars in profit is the only metric for anything.

Graphics design is actually an interesting example, because that field's pay has plummeted over the years. The barrier to entry is so much lower than it used to be. Photography, graphic design, webpage design, all has become so much easier and cheaper that some 20 year old with a macbook pro is actually competing with professional photographers. Overcompetition driving down wages.

 

[Blue_State]

I hear ya.

I would rather be a graphic designer for 13.00 and hour than a toilet scrubber for 15.00.

E3's in the army do that and they only get 10 bucks an hour (rough estimate from E3 - Private First Class (Army) Hourly Wages | Salary.com). I am the first to admit, pretty good benefits though.

 

[Deuce]

E3's in the army do that and they only get 10 bucks an hour (rough estimate from E3 - Private First Class (Army) Hourly Wages | Salary.com). I am the first to admit, pretty good benefits though.

$10 an hour plus housing, food, health care, college...

 

[Blue_State]

$10 an hour plus housing, food, health care, college...

I said the benefits were pretty great.

 

[Mason66]

and that's not what i advocated. i advocated debt free access to post secondary education and job training.

Is that not available now?

Is everyone that goes to college required to borrow the money?