four documented cases of voter fraud in the 2016 election

[ttwtt78640]

Made them more invasive, and allowed "ticketing for profit" to really uptick. But why should we waste all the time and money it would require for Voter ID laws when there's not really a problem in the first place?

OK, if someone votes as any other registered voter who did not vote then what would get that fact reported? Yep, no potential for getting way with that at all.

Unlike bank fraud there is nothing missing from anyone's account with voter fraud. If I vote as my crazy uncle (or neighbor), who is registered but never votes, then what "red flag" gets raised to have that voter fraud checked?

 

[Visbek]

That is like saying that shoplifting is rare because (news?) reported cases of shoplifting convictions are rare.

...except that study after study has shown that there is almost no voter fraud.

The problems are similar; in order to know if an extra vote was cast by Joe of 1234 Anystreet then you have to check ID for each vote cast and in order to arrest Joe for taking your missing toaster then you have to have evidence that only Joe of 1234 Anystreet could have taken it.

And yet, we are able to detect voter fraud using pretty much that type of process.

E.g. one of the four fraudulent voters filled out both an absentee ballot and voted in person. Another was a woman who filled in her husband's absentee ballot form after he died. Two more got busted for voting twice.

It is not 1930, when party machines would send buses full of loyalists from one polling station to the other. There doesn't seem to be any sign that voting machines were hacked. And many of the voter protection laws just happen to target minorities.

While I am all in favor of vigilance, it's very clear that there is so little voter fraud going on right now, that it is not even swaying the tightest of elections.

 

[Casca XV]

I thought millions of illegals were just dying to illegally vote.

They did vote. Where do you think Queen Kankles so called popular vote lead came from.

 

[ttwtt78640]

There are lots of documented cases of shoplifting. Voter fraud, not so much.

Exactly, because something is missing from the shelf and in your possession with no receipt.

Unlike shoplifting there is nothing missing with voter fraud and no receipt to check. If I vote as my crazy uncle (or neighbor), who is registered but never votes, then what "red flag" gets raised to have that voter fraud checked?

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Looks like Trump and Stein were both wrong.

Looks like they were both right because there was voter fraud.

Plus without ID catching someone misrepresenting themselves is not very likely. I am who I say I am until someone proves otherwise. Without positive ID that becomes impossible. I know when I was a MP everyone I stopped who did not have ID ended up being a wanted by the law or in this country illegally.

 

[j-mac]

Looks like they were both right because there was voter fraud.

Plus without ID catching someone misrepresenting themselves is not very likely. I am who I say I am until someone proves otherwise. Without positive ID that becomes impossible. I know when I was a MP everyone I stopped who did not have ID ended up being a wanted by the law or in this country illegally.

That's a good point....I love how everyone is saying that there is no voter fraud, then when you ask, if we can put a way in to actually, and accurately measure, they say 'well, hell no!, why would you do that? there isn't any...." Gotta love that circular logic....

 

[ttwtt78640]

...except that study after study has shown that there is almost no voter fraud.



And yet, we are able to detect voter fraud using pretty much that type of process.

E.g. one of the four fraudulent voters filled out both an absentee ballot and voted in person. Another was a woman who filled in her husband's absentee ballot form after he died. Two more got busted for voting twice.

It is not 1930, when party machines would send buses full of loyalists from one polling station to the other. There doesn't seem to be any sign that voting machines were hacked. And many of the voter protection laws just happen to target minorities.

While I am all in favor of vigilance, it's very clear that there is so little voter fraud going on right now, that it is not even swaying the tightest of elections.

If I vote as my crazy uncle (or neighbor), who is registered but never votes, then what "red flag" gets raised to have that voter fraud checked? I did not vote as the dead, I did vote twice under the same name or do anything that could tie me to that "legitimate" vote which was attributed to a registered voter. That is quite possible if all I have to do is know the name and address of some other registered voter(s) who will not vote - unless I must show that other voter's valid, state issued, photo ID.

 

[Praxas]

That's a good point....I love how everyone is saying that there is no voter fraud, then when you ask, if we can put a way in to actually, and accurately measure, they say 'well, hell no!, why would you do that? there isn't any...." Gotta love that circular logic....

Please point to where someone said there is ZERO voter fraud. Oh yeah, you can't.

 

[Praxas]

If I vote as my crazy uncle (or neighbor), who is registered but never votes, then what "red flag" gets raised to have that voter fraud checked? I did not vote as the dead, I did vote twice under the same name or do anything that could tie me to that "legitimate" vote which was attributed to a registered voter. That is quite possible if all I have to do is know the name and address of some other registered voter(s) who will not vote - unless I must show that other voter's valid, state issued, photo ID.

And you think a voter ID is going to be fraud proof?

 

[Visbek]

OK, if someone votes as any other registered voter who did not vote then what would get that fact reported?

How is this supposed to work? If the same person votes at the same polling station, they are very likely to get busted.

How are they going to know whether that registered voter did, in fact, vote? It's not like that information is publicly available.

Are they supposed to spend all day, traveling from polling station to polling station, and voting as people they hope didn't already vote? How many times do you think someone can do that these days, especially in areas where it can take an hour to vote?

And do you really think it's impossible to make a fake ID that can pass a polling station worker? Heck, I could probably make one in 10 minutes in Photoshop.

If I vote as my crazy uncle (or neighbor), who is registered but never votes, then what "red flag" gets raised to have that voter fraud checked?

Well, let's see.

You have to be sure they never voted, then you have to be absolutely sure they won't vote this year.

If it's your neighbor, you'd have to vote twice at the same polling station. You'll get noticed.

If it's your uncle, you have to travel to his district and vote as him. Or, you'd have to order an absentee ballot in his name, and hope he doesn't show up at the ballot.

And let's say that you do, somehow, get away with this. Congratulations, you've committed voter fraud... for one vote. In order to actually impact an election, though, you'd need to get thousands of people who are coordinating names, polling stations, transportation and more -- e.g. if your Crazy Uncle is someone else's Crazy Neighbor, there could be duplicate fraudulent votes. As always: The larger the conspiracy, the more powerful it is... and the more likely it is to be uncovered. And of course, people who don't have the wherewithal to get a photo ID might not be the most adept at coordinating a secret undiscovered conspiracy to cast thousands of fraudulent votes.

Machine politics are over. Nucky Johnson can't send hundreds of loyalists to multiple polling stations, over and over again. We don't have millions (or even thousands) of people committing voter fraud, and many of the laws that allegedly target voter fraud are really just designed to suppress minority voters. This includes reducing the number of polling stations, or requiring identification that is difficult to get.

 

[Casca XV]

No you are behind the times. Trump said 3 million illegals DID in fact vote.

Trump, and anylsis from Truethevote and Blackboxvoting.org say that. https://twitter.com/TrueTheVote?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[a777pilot]

Oh Trump, he never says anything crazy. Never.


Oh wait....

25 Of The Dumbest Things Donald Trump Has Ever Said.

LOL! Loved those quotes. What is dumb about them? They sound normal and true.

 

[ttwtt78640]

And you think a voter ID is going to be fraud proof?

No system is perfect but the odds of me having a valid, state issued, photo ID to pass as my crazy uncle or neighbor is fairly slim.

If I vote as my crazy uncle (or neighbor), who is registered but never votes, then what "red flag" gets raised to have that voter fraud checked? The "system" now says that there is "no evidence" of that ever happening.

 

[Casca XV]

Guess we don't need that Voter ID law then.

We definitely need a Federal voter ID Law. With it Liberal democrats could never win another national election. That would be the greatest thing that could ever happen to this nation.

 

[j-mac]

Please point to where someone said there is ZERO voter fraud. Oh yeah, you can't.

stawman....I never said that others said there was "zero"......Are you saying that liberals think that a problem exists?

 

[Visbek]

No system is perfect but the odds of me having a valid, state issued, photo ID to pass as my crazy uncle or neighbor is fairly slim.

So are the odds that you're going to travel 50 miles to pretend to be him at a polling station.

 

[Praxas]

No system is perfect but the odds of me having a valid, state issued, photo ID to pass as my crazy uncle or neighbor is fairly slim.

If I vote as my crazy uncle (or neighbor), who is registered but never votes, then what "red flag" gets raised to have that voter fraud checked? The "system" now says that there is "no evidence" of that ever happening.

The amount of money that will be spent going into voter IDs will be far more wasteful than the paranoia of so called illegal voters.

 

[Praxas]

stawman....I never said that others said there was "zero"......Are you saying that liberals think that a problem exists?

You said that people claimed there was NO voter fraud. That means ZERO. Look at your words dude, words have meaning. Wow taking your cues from Trump I see.

 

[Orly?]

From the article:

"There wasn't evidence of widespread voter fraud before the election. There isn't evidence of widespread voter fraud afterward, either. In fact, there's not evidence of even modest voter fraud."

How would they know this, or is it just their opinion?

Opinion of course..

 

[Dittohead not!]

Exactly, because something is missing from the shelf and in your possession with no receipt.

Unlike shoplifting there is nothing missing with voter fraud and no receipt to check. If I vote as my crazy uncle (or neighbor), who is registered but never votes, then what "red flag" gets raised to have that voter fraud checked?

Since politics is about perception, and not about reality, let's then initiate a voter ID law. If confidence in the electoral process is so low that a successful candidate can claim millions of illegal votes and be believed, then it's time we did something to restore that confidence. There can't be that many people who vote but don't possess a picture ID of some kind.

But, let's not disallow the sorts of ID that minority voters are most likely to have. That's another form of election fraud.

 

[j-mac]

How is this supposed to work? If the same person votes at the same polling station, they are very likely to get busted.

How are they going to know whether that registered voter did, in fact, vote? It's not like that information is publicly available.

Are they supposed to spend all day, traveling from polling station to polling station, and voting as people they hope didn't already vote? How many times do you think someone can do that these days, especially in areas where it can take an hour to vote?

And do you really think it's impossible to make a fake ID that can pass a polling station worker? Heck, I could probably make one in 10 minutes in Photoshop.



Well, let's see.

You have to be sure they never voted, then you have to be absolutely sure they won't vote this year.

If it's your neighbor, you'd have to vote twice at the same polling station. You'll get noticed.

If it's your uncle, you have to travel to his district and vote as him. Or, you'd have to order an absentee ballot in his name, and hope he doesn't show up at the ballot.

And let's say that you do, somehow, get away with this. Congratulations, you've committed voter fraud... for one vote. In order to actually impact an election, though, you'd need to get thousands of people who are coordinating names, polling stations, transportation and more -- e.g. if your Crazy Uncle is someone else's Crazy Neighbor, there could be duplicate fraudulent votes. As always: The larger the conspiracy, the more powerful it is... and the more likely it is to be uncovered. And of course, people who don't have the wherewithal to get a photo ID might not be the most adept at coordinating a secret undiscovered conspiracy to cast thousands of fraudulent votes.

Machine politics are over. Nucky Johnson can't send hundreds of loyalists to multiple polling stations, over and over again. We don't have millions (or even thousands) of people committing voter fraud, and many of the laws that allegedly target voter fraud are really just designed to suppress minority voters. This includes reducing the number of polling stations, or requiring identification that is difficult to get.

Vote busing, and hitting more than one polling place do indeed happen, and have been happening for "fifty years".....So, I think that a time has come where we need to if not have ID to verify that 'one citizen = one vote", then we have to institute automatic recounts nationwide starting immediately after election night.

 

[Casca XV]

Oh Trump, he never says anything crazy. Never.


Oh wait....

25 Of The Dumbest Things Donald Trump Has Ever Said.

Boy, did you just start a losing battle,,, Obama seldom puts two words together without a teleprompter yet in the area of saying stupid things he is far worse than Trump.

No wonder next to Carter Obama consistently polls as the worst modernday President.

 

[americanwoman]

They did vote. Where do you think Queen Kankles so called popular vote lead came from.

Queen kankles, huh? I'm sure you're some kind of ankle model but anyways any proof of millions of illegals voting?

 

[Skeptic Bob]

While I don't believe voter fraud is a significant problem due to the high risk with virtually no reward, we don't know the actual number of cases. Still, if they are only able to find a small number then odds are the number of ones they didn't find is on the small side as well.

 

[ttwtt78640]

How is this supposed to work? If the same person votes at the same polling station, they are very likely to get busted.

1) How are they going to know whether that registered voter did, in fact, vote? It's not like that information is publicly available.

Are they supposed to spend all day, traveling from polling station to polling station, and voting as people they hope didn't already vote? How many times do you think someone can do that these days, especially in areas where it can take an hour to vote?

And do you really think it's impossible to make a fake ID that can pass a polling station worker? Heck, I could probably make one in 10 minutes in Photoshop.



Well, let's see.

You have to be sure they never voted, then you have to be absolutely sure they won't vote this year.

2) If it's your neighbor, you'd have to vote twice at the same polling station. You'll get noticed.

3) If it's your uncle, you have to travel to his district and vote as him. Or, you'd have to order an absentee ballot in his name, and hope he doesn't show up at the ballot.

And let's say that you do, somehow, get away with this. Congratulations, you've committed voter fraud... for one vote. In order to actually impact an election, though, you'd need to get thousands of people who are coordinating names, polling stations, transportation and more -- e.g. if your Crazy Uncle is someone else's Crazy Neighbor, there could be duplicate fraudulent votes. As always: The larger the conspiracy, the more powerful it is... and the more likely it is to be uncovered. And of course, people who don't have the wherewithal to get a photo ID might not be the most adept at coordinating a secret undiscovered conspiracy to cast thousands of fraudulent votes.

Machine politics are over. Nucky Johnson can't send hundreds of loyalists to multiple polling stations, over and over again. We don't have millions (or even thousands) of people committing voter fraud, and many of the laws that allegedly target voter fraud are really just designed to suppress minority voters. This includes reducing the number of polling stations, or requiring identification that is difficult to get.

1) These are people that I know do not vote - some actually boast about it.

2) Early voting in my area makes that easy - varying staff over weeks and different poll locations from election day.

3) Absentee or local travel, especially with weeks of early voting, make that easy.