Florida's don't say gay passes House...

[Lovebug]

I was one of those 1st 2nd and 3rd graders; it was a big enough issue that it severely affected my entire 68 year long life, and made so much of my existence miserable (on the inside, I HAD to hide it) for so many years. My parents were so 4-square, dead-set against anything but their anti-LGBT way of thinking, I never trusted them or felt the unconditional love kids (and adults) need, over some thing that is not changeable and out of my hands completely. Instead, I developed a strong (justifiable) distrust for most everyone I have ever known, save for a precious few who understood.

As an outlet for all the pain, rather than kill myself, I beat the hell out of anyone who crossed me, and tried successfully to be the Macho Hard Ass everyone, including my parents thought I should be. Both went to their graves without ever knowing who I truly was or how I truly felt. To this day I still hate them for it. And I'm not alone.

Lots has changed since those days. The fact that so many are protesting this proposal speaks volumes.

 

[The Old Soul]

I am still not understanding how allowing teachers, not parents, as the sounding boards for the children who want and need to have the conversations that you desired is the right call?
Clearly you see that as ok, but I don't.
You needed someone to listen, and I get that however, that someone is one or both of your parents. Grandparents, uncles, aunts, someone not the teachers. Not that they couldn't be that person, but it certainly doesnt need to be a class wide discussion.

The lack of parenting is a big issue, not just here, it is even bigger with education. Are we willing to take kids away from 'parents who cannot or do not parent' so that their child has the best outcome? If not, then they don't need to be replaced with this issue either.

Reality gets in the way of life; I was brought up in a staunch Catholic family, and attended parochial school; there was no one in my home life (parents or relatives) to dare turn to, let alone bring it up with some nun who didn't think kids should even use a bathroom on request - this is not a rare situation. For some reason, the LGBT among us have been an easy target - most of the time the subject is brought up when it has no bearing on anything except as a way to spew hate and negativity. I was reading a post in reply to a news story just a few minutes ago and read this:

WOW!! Pop your head out of Biden’s backside and take a look around. He hired based on race and sexual orientation rather than the ability to do the job (Spelled it out for you rather than just say “merit” cause I know you would not understand that), stuck women back in the basement in favor of men pretending to be women, and appears weak to world leaders hence Putin didn’t give it a second thought on invading . You can keep your perfect world.

What good does ragging on a group of people who have nothing to do with the issue do? Unsolicited vilification of a basically harmless (but easily defined) group does nothing but harm all involved. As a child, I remember similar rhetoric concerning "cripples" that needed special treatment like ramps over stairs, special prking, and bathrooms with grab rails and enough room for wheelchairs; same with "retards" or the poor - sometimes people are unbelievably cruel and hurtful for no reason, thinking they are just 'going with the majority,' and expressing what everybody else thinks anyway. Yea, why should these people deserve any more than the fully functional receive.

Even standing up for a marginalized group or person has repercussions; when I was 15, a bully was picking on a somewhat less than 'masculine' neighbor boy who was a good person and a friend of mine, calling him Fag, Girly Boy, and pushing him around. He was bigger and stronger than either of us, but my dad's rule we always "if the kid you are fighting is bigger than you, have at it." Well, I did, and all the motivation I needed was thinking about all the negativity and hate my life was filled with, and that rage made the fight in the dog stronger than the dog in the fight. Well, I jumped on the Kid (much to his surprise), and unleashed the monster society's distain for those who are different created. It was at that point I gave up violence - I got the best of him, had him by the hair, and knocked him unconscious beating his head on the sidewalk. My friend grabbed my arm and told me to stop before I killed him, even though I would have imagined he should be cheering me on; and that was the point I realized I would have killed him if I kept going. I'll never forget that moment.

Yea, things have changed - for thee and not me. Teaching kids about life (all of it, good or bad) is giving them a solid base to work from for the rest of their lives regardless of personal persuasions; knocking them back and making them the 'problem' by playing hush-hush and treating them like subordinates does not a good and wholesome person make.

 

[element94]

its another GOP wedge issue:


The bill specifically targets kindergarten through third grade classrooms and seeks to bar discussions that are deemed “not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students.” State Rep. Joe Harding (R), who introduced the legislation, said it was about “empowering parents,” adding that students won’t be barred from speaking about LGBTQ issues.

Is "White Power" still OK to say?

 

[Cope]

Reality gets in the way of life; I was brought up in a staunch Catholic family, and attended parochial school; there was no one in my home life (parents or relatives) to dare turn to, let alone bring it up with some nun who didn't think kids should even use a bathroom on request - this is not a rare situation. For some reason, the LGBT among us have been an easy target - most of the time the subject is brought up when it has no bearing on anything except as a way to spew hate and negativity. I was reading a post in reply to a news story just a few minutes ago and read this:

What good does ragging on a group of people who have nothing to do with the issue do? Unsolicited vilification of a basically harmless (but easily defined) group does nothing but harm all involved. As a child, I remember similar rhetoric concerning "cripples" that needed special treatment like ramps over stairs, special prking, and bathrooms with grab rails and enough room for wheelchairs; same with "retards" or the poor - sometimes people are unbelievably cruel and hurtful for no reason, thinking they are just 'going with the majority,' and expressing what everybody else thinks anyway. Yea, why should these people deserve any more than the fully functional receive.

Even standing up for a marginalized group or person has repercussions; when I was 15, a bully was picking on a somewhat less than 'masculine' neighbor boy who was a good person and a friend of mine, calling him Fag, Girly Boy, and pushing him around. He was bigger and stronger than either of us, but my dad's rule we always "if the kid you are fighting is bigger than you, have at it." Well, I did, and all the motivation I needed was thinking about all the negativity and hate my life was filled with, and that rage made the fight in the dog stronger than the dog in the fight. Well, I jumped on the Kid (much to his surprise), and unleashed the monster society's distain for those who are different created. It was at that point I gave up violence - I got the best of him, had him by the hair, and knocked him unconscious beating his head on the sidewalk. My friend grabbed my arm and told me to stop before I killed him, even though I would have imagined he should be cheering me on; and that was the point I realized I would have killed him if I kept going. I'll never forget that moment.

Yea, things have changed - for thee and not me. Teaching kids about life (all of it, good or bad) is giving them a solid base to work from for the rest of their lives regardless of personal persuasions; knocking them back and making them the 'problem' by playing hush-hush and treating them like subordinates does not a good and wholesome person make.

I'm not saying that some outlet may not be needed, as it likely was for you but it just isn't, and shouldn't be teachers. The counselor would probably be my go to suggestion. Especially in today's day and age, someone in your immediate family would most assuredly sympathize with you, even if you couldn't go to your parents.

My stance is still the same since "The lack of parenting is a big issue, not just here, it is even bigger with education. Are we willing to take kids away from 'parents who cannot or do not parent' so that their child has the best outcome? If not, then they don't need to be replaced with this issue either. "

I much prefer we stay consistent throughout for kids.

 

[holbritter]

What a sad state, and a truly sad state of affairs. The GOP there are passing laws from the 20th century not the 21st century. Once again showing they are NOT the party of inclusion, and they don't like minorities other than themselves.

Equality Florida condemned the bill’s passage on Thursday, saying it was done “despite overwhelming public outrage” and claiming the move would turn the state into a bastion of “censorship and surveillance.”
“If signed into law, these bills will have disastrous impacts on classrooms and workplaces,” the group said in a statement. “They will turn Florida into a surveillance state and give the government broad license to censor conversations about American history, the origins of racism and injustice, and the existence of LGBTQ people.”

Florida House Passes ‘Don’t Say Gay’ Bill Despite Nationwide Outcry

“It sends a terrible message to our youth," Democratic Rep. Carlos Guillermo Smith told colleagues.

www.huffpost.com

The bill specifically targets kindergarten through third grade classrooms and seeks to bar discussions that are deemed “not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students.”

I don't have a problem with that.

 

[holbritter]

I seriously wonder if any of these legislators ever talked to any of the actual people they are legislating against? Every gay or trans adult knew they were gay or trans long before reaching the 'legal' age, some came to the realization even before reaching school age.

If these kids do have an issue, how can they have an open, non-judgmental discussion about who they are, with laws against their core convictions and an entire country saying they are sick, demented, mentally ill, when even the topic has even been criminalized?

Who is being harmed besides the child who NEEDS to sort things out? Just remember, with each of these laws passed, the country is gaining the precedence of going after you; you may very well be next - remember that when supporting oppression of who someone is and only want to live their life with the same freedoms as you, but cannot.

Why is a classroom the place for it? Concentrate on reading, writing, math, science.

 

[Simpletruther]

What a sad state, and a truly sad state of affairs. The GOP there are passing laws from the 20th century not the 21st century. Once again showing they are NOT the party of inclusion, and they don't like minorities other than themselves.

Equality Florida condemned the bill’s passage on Thursday, saying it was done “despite overwhelming public outrage” and claiming the move would turn the state into a bastion of “censorship and surveillance.”
“If signed into law, these bills will have disastrous impacts on classrooms and workplaces,” the group said in a statement. “They will turn Florida into a surveillance state and give the government broad license to censor conversations about American history, the origins of racism and injustice, and the existence of LGBTQ people.”

Florida House Passes ‘Don’t Say Gay’ Bill Despite Nationwide Outcry

“It sends a terrible message to our youth," Democratic Rep. Carlos Guillermo Smith told colleagues.

www.huffpost.com

Plenty of progressives would support a "don't say the wrong pronoun" bill. It's a battle out there.

 

[SoCal]

Your source presents a message so biased that it can only be viewed as propaganda.

Children in K-3 really don't have any understanding that would justify the teaching of Gender diversity.

It is ridiculous that our educators, proven to be incapable of teaching the basic 3R's, are even considering teaching this tripe.

A 9 year old isn't ready to understand what a gay person is?? Unless they live in a cave, don't watch TV or have a computer, you might have a point. By 9 years old, if they know the difference between a man and a woman they'll have no problem understanding gender diversity.

They say, “It’s actually providing boundaries and it’s fair to our teachers and our school districts to know what we expect.”, yet the bill is completely nebulous, never defining what is out of bounds that could get a teacher sued by some homophobe. As Rep. Carlos Guillermo Smith (D), said, the first openly LGBTQ Latino to serve in the Florida Legislature, “what topics specifically about myself, LGBTQ Floridians, are not appropriate to teach.”...

 

[dockside]

I am still not understanding how allowing teachers, not parents, as the sounding boards for the children who want and need to have the conversations that you desired is the right call?
Clearly you see that as ok, but I don't.
You needed someone to listen, and I get that however, that someone is one or both of your parents. Grandparents, uncles, aunts, someone not the teachers. Not that they couldn't be that person, but it certainly doesnt need to be a class wide discussion.

The lack of parenting is a big issue, not just here, it is even bigger with education. Are we willing to take kids away from 'parents who cannot or do not parent' so that their child has the best outcome? If not, then they don't need to be replaced with this issue either.

I can't believe that, after reading his post about his own, heart-rending, experience with his parents, that you can be so un-comprehending about what some parents are and how it affects their children. Some people are so anti-gay, anti-anything-they-think-is abnormal, that they would never, ever, support or help a child that is not what they think that child should be. They'll blame the child, try to change him/her. Yes, it would be great if every child had a parent who truly loved them, just the way they are. But, there are not that many parents that do, when it comes to sexuality. Those children need someone to love and accept them, support them and tell them they are o.k. and if it's not the parents, the teacher would be the logical person to turn to.

 

[Court Jester]

So why reef on a bunch of LGBT kids that thinks Marxism has something to do with an antique toy manufacturer?

Keep in mind the only ones being truly suppressed are the children; vilified to the point of actually committing suicide.

Meh....

They end their existence mainly because of crap like these laws and the people supporting them.

Nobody forces anyone to commit suicide.

You, yes you are the main reason these people are committing homicide - against themselves, not the ones who are the actual killers...

Meh...

 

[code1211]

I was one of those 1st 2nd and 3rd graders; it was a big enough issue that it severely affected my entire 68 year long life, and made so much of my existence miserable (on the inside, I HAD to hide it) for so many years. My parents were so 4-square, dead-set against anything but their anti-LGBT way of thinking, I never trusted them or felt the unconditional love kids (and adults) need, over some thing that is not changeable and out of my hands completely. Instead, I developed a strong (justifiable) distrust for most everyone I have ever known, save for a precious few who understood.

As an outlet for all the pain, rather than kill myself, I beat the hell out of anyone who crossed me, and tried successfully to be the Macho Hard Ass everyone, including my parents thought I should be. Both went to their graves without ever knowing who I truly was or how I truly felt. To this day I still hate them for it. And I'm not alone.

I hope you find peace as your life moves forward.

 

[Peter King]

What a sad state, and a truly sad state of affairs. The GOP there are passing laws from the 20th century not the 21st century. Once again showing they are NOT the party of inclusion, and they don't like minorities other than themselves.

Equality Florida condemned the bill’s passage on Thursday, saying it was done “despite overwhelming public outrage” and claiming the move would turn the state into a bastion of “censorship and surveillance.”
“If signed into law, these bills will have disastrous impacts on classrooms and workplaces,” the group said in a statement. “They will turn Florida into a surveillance state and give the government broad license to censor conversations about American history, the origins of racism and injustice, and the existence of LGBTQ people.”

Florida House Passes ‘Don’t Say Gay’ Bill Despite Nationwide Outcry

“It sends a terrible message to our youth," Democratic Rep. Carlos Guillermo Smith told colleagues.

www.huffpost.com

 

[jotathought]

What is it with conservatives and their abject fear of anything sexual?

Talibornagains....

Why would you want to teach a 1st grader boy about pretending to be a woman? Would you support your school system teaching other mature topics as well outside of sex?

 

[code1211]

A 9 year old isn't ready to understand what a gay person is?? Unless they live in a cave, don't watch TV or have a computer, you might have a point. By 9 years old, if they know the difference between a man and a woman they'll have no problem understanding gender diversity.

They say, “It’s actually providing boundaries and it’s fair to our teachers and our school districts to know what we expect.”, yet the bill is completely nebulous, never defining what is out of bounds that could get a teacher sued by some homophobe. As Rep. Carlos Guillermo Smith (D), said, the first openly LGBTQ Latino to serve in the Florida Legislature, “what topics specifically about myself, LGBTQ Floridians, are not appropriate to teach.”...

Why is this curriculum essential to the education of a child in the third grade?

 

[SoCal]

Lots has changed since those days. The fact that so many are protesting this proposal speaks volumes.

True, on the other hand, the fact that this proposal is being proposed also speaks volumes...

 

[Rawley]

Yay freedumb.

Sad that you can't share porn with eight year olds?

 

[SoCal]

Why is this curriculum essential to the education of a child in the third grade?

What curriculum? A curriculum is, 'a course of study', do you think there's a, 'It's Ok to be Gay 101' class? Maybe i missed it, but I haven't heard anyone claim it's essential. It seems conservatives believe teachers are trying to turn children gay, or they don't want their kids discussing homosexuality in anyway, for the same reason they don't want the honest teaching of American history, it makes them, 'uncomfortable'...

 

[Helix]

Sad that you can't share porn with eight year olds?

Have a great weekend.

 

[Rawley]

Have a great weekend.

You too. Just to be clear, this is the type of material your side is advocating that school children have access to.

SHOCKING: Images from book 'Gender Queer,' which is stocked in school libraries across Iowa - The Iowa Standard

Please do not show children these images. These are intended for mature adults so that they understand know exactly what is in “Gender Queer,” a book in schools across Iowa. Scroll down to see the images. If you are not over 18 years old, please close the page. Thank you. You have heard what...

theiowastandard.com

 

[Helix]

You too. Just to be clear, this is the type of material your side is advocating that school children have access to.

SHOCKING: Images from book 'Gender Queer,' which is stocked in school libraries across Iowa - The Iowa Standard

Please do not show children these images. These are intended for mature adults so that they understand know exactly what is in “Gender Queer,” a book in schools across Iowa. Scroll down to see the images. If you are not over 18 years old, please close the page. Thank you. You have heard what...

theiowastandard.com

I don't care about faux outreach. Goodbye.

 

[Rawley]

I don't care about faux outreach. Goodbye.

Closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears doesn't change reality.

This precisely one of the books that your side was trying to push on school children. And what led to legislation like this in Florida. Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't make it go away

SHOCKING: Images from book 'Gender Queer,' which is stocked in school libraries across Iowa - The Iowa Standard

Please do not show children these images. These are intended for mature adults so that they understand know exactly what is in “Gender Queer,” a book in schools across Iowa. Scroll down to see the images. If you are not over 18 years old, please close the page. Thank you. You have heard what...

theiowastandard.com

 

[Rawley]

What curriculum? A curriculum is, 'a course of study', do you think there's a, 'It's Ok to be Gay 101' class? Maybe i missed it, but I haven't heard anyone claim it's essential. It seems conservatives believe teachers are trying to turn children gay, or they don't want their kids discussing homosexuality in anyway, for the same reason they don't want the honest teaching of American history, it makes them, 'uncomfortable'...

Kindergartners through third graders. 6-8 year olds. No, teachers should not be leading discussions on sexual orientation or gender identity.

 

[Subieguy]

censorship comes in many forms eh?

 

[j brown's body]

Can you summarize just what the bill does?

"The bill (HB 1557), officially titled "Parental Rights in Education," seeks to ban discussions surrounding sexual orientation and gender identity in schools, and would give parents the ability to sue violators, such as school districts.

But it might also create cause for a lawsuit if a kid wants a veggie plate without an OK from mom or dad, according to one lawmaker."

Don't say salad? How vegetarian school lunches got pulled into Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' debate

Officially titled "Parental Rights in Education," a Florida bill seeks to ban discussions around sexual orientation and gender identity in schools.

www.usatoday.com

 

[j brown's body]

Kindergartners through third graders. 6-8 year olds. No, teachers should not be leading discussions on sexual orientation or gender identity.

I think it covers more than teachers leading discussions . Any discussion of a family with a two parent household would seem to be prohibited.