Florida's don't say gay passes House...

[j brown's body]

I am still not understanding how allowing teachers, not parents, as the sounding boards for the children who want and need to have the conversations that you desired is the right call?
Clearly you see that as ok, but I don't.
You needed someone to listen, and I get that however, that someone is one or both of your parents. Grandparents, uncles, aunts, someone not the teachers. Not that they couldn't be that person, but it certainly doesnt need to be a class wide discussion.

The lack of parenting is a big issue, not just here, it is even bigger with education. Are we willing to take kids away from 'parents who cannot or do not parent' so that their child has the best outcome? If not, then they don't need to be replaced with this issue either.

For generations, trusted teachers have served as a sounding board for students who need to talk to an adult but don't feel they can talk to their parents or family. This bill ends that.

 

[Rawley]

I think it covers more than teachers leading discussions . Any discussion of a family with a two parent household would seem to be prohibited.

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate."

"Instruction" to reasonable people means that a teacher is leading.

 

[Rawley]

For generations, trusted teachers have served as a sounding board for students who need to talk to an adult but don't feel they can talk to their parents or family. This bill ends that.

No it doesn't. The bill does nothing to prevent a child from approaching a teacher.

 

[Maccabee]

The bill specifically targets kindergarten through third grade classrooms and seeks to bar discussions that are deemed “not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students.”

I don't have a problem with that.

Ok, what is defined as "not age appropriate" and who gets to decide?

 

[code1211]

What curriculum? A curriculum is, 'a course of study', do you think there's a, 'It's Ok to be Gay 101' class? Maybe i missed it, but I haven't heard anyone claim it's essential. It seems conservatives believe teachers are trying to turn children gay, or they don't want their kids discussing homosexuality in anyway, for the same reason they don't want the honest teaching of American history, it makes them, 'uncomfortable'...

Your beliefs are what they are.

I tutor children in the third grade to help them raise their reading to grade level. In the third grade the children complete the part of their education in which they learn to read.

Following the third grade, children read to learn. This is a huge difference. Through third grade: Give them skills. After third grade: Use those skills.

In the third grade, children are very young. This seems to not need be stated, but to some, the obvious must be stated.

Why is the topic cited even mentioned in a course of study in the third grade in a public school setting?

 

[SoCal]

...In the third grade, children are very young. This seems to not need be stated, but to some, the obvious must be stated.

I don't understand how someone who's read The Old Soul's post #21 experiences in the 3rd grade and continue to claim it's obvious that a teacher shouldn't be able to discuss homosexuality with students. What he went thru is probably experienced by tens of thousands of kids. It was nice of you wishing he find peace going forward, but no comment about his past? No word sympathy for the hell he went through in the 3rd grade?

Freud believed homosexuality was a mental disorder and between 1952 and 1973 it was on the American Psychiatric Association's list of mental disorders. The debate to remove it went on for a couple years and I would give odds that it was conservative psychiatrists who wanted to keep it on the list.

Why is the topic cited even mentioned in a course of study in the third grade in a public school setting?

This doesn't only affect teachers, I believe it can't be mentioned or discussed by anyone. For example, it might be brought up by a student who has two mothers/fathers...

 

[Cope]

I don't understand how someone who's read The Old Soul's post #21 experiences in the 3rd grade and continue to claim it's obvious that a teacher shouldn't be able to discuss homosexuality with students. What he went thru is probably experienced by tens of thousands of kids. It was nice of you wishing he find peace going forward, but no comment about his past? No word sympathy for the hell he went through in the 3rd grade?

Freud believed homosexuality was a mental disorder and between 1952 and 1973 it was on the American Psychiatric Association's list of mental disorders. The debate to remove it went on for a couple years and I would give odds that it was conservative psychiatrists who wanted to keep it on the list.


This doesn't only affect teachers, I believe it can't be mentioned or discussed by anyone. For example, it might be brought up by a student who has two mothers/fathers...

As stated, Old Soul needed that help. What he didn't need was a teacher leading that discussion among his classmates, nor with him (if he was K-3rd grade).
He should have been able to find a trusted confidant, and if not his parents or other family members, then the school counselor would do wonderfully.

 

[code1211]

I don't understand how someone who's read The Old Soul's post #21 experiences in the 3rd grade and continue to claim it's obvious that a teacher shouldn't be able to discuss homosexuality with students. What he went thru is probably experienced by tens of thousands of kids. It was nice of you wishing he find peace going forward, but no comment about his past? No word sympathy for the hell he went through in the 3rd grade?

Freud believed homosexuality was a mental disorder and between 1952 and 1973 it was on the American Psychiatric Association's list of mental disorders. The debate to remove it went on for a couple years and I would give odds that it was conservative psychiatrists who wanted to keep it on the list.


This doesn't only affect teachers, I believe it can't be mentioned or discussed by anyone. For example, it might be brought up by a student who has two mothers/fathers...

Why did you amputate a shred of a thought and post it as if it was a whole thought?

 

[j brown's body]

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate."

"Instruction" to reasonable people means that a teacher is leading.

So no lessons focusing on families with two parents. Crazy.

 

[j brown's body]

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate."

"Instruction" to reasonable people means that a teacher is leading.

That it needs to be inferred speaks to the danger of the law.

Desantis doesn't seem to see it that way. The scenario he provides does not necessarily involve a lesson. One would hope he is familiar with the bill he is going to sign. Or maybe he just doesn't care.

"We've seen instances of students being told by different folks in school, 'Oh, don't worry, don't pick your gender yet, do all this other stuff.' They won't tell the parents about these discussions that are happening. That is entirely inappropriate," DeSantis said at the time.

Link

 

[Rawley]

So no lessons focusing on families with two parents. Crazy.

Why is that crazy? WHat's the lesson?

 

[Rawley]

That it needs to be inferred speaks to the danger of the law.

Desantis doesn't seem to see it that way. The scenario he provides does not necessarily involve a lesson. One would hope he is familiar with the bill he is going to sign. Or maybe he just doesn't care.

"We've seen instances of students being told by different folks in school, 'Oh, don't worry, don't pick your gender yet, do all this other stuff.' They won't tell the parents about these discussions that are happening. That is entirely inappropriate," DeSantis said at the time.

Link

Every law can be interpreted in bizarre ways if you want to create issues. Teachers of these grades should be wary if they start wading into these areas. THe State has clearly told them, this is not your business, these are subjects for the family.

 

[Subieguy]

Every law can be interpreted in bizarre ways if you want to create issues. Teachers of these grades should be wary if they start wading into these areas. THe State has clearly told them, this is not your business, these are subjects for the family.

then if so much concern, why didn't the state do this much much earlier? Answer: GOP wants a wedge issue for 2022. There is NO other answer.

 

[Rawley]

then if so much concern, why didn't the state do this much much earlier? Answer: GOP wants a wedge issue for 2022. There is NO other answer.

Opaqueness of the curriculum. With COVID and remote online learning, parents, some for the first time, had insight to what was being taught in their children's schools.

 

[Subieguy]

Opaqueness of the curriculum. With COVID and remote online learning, parents, some for the first time, had insight to what was being taught in their children's schools.

sorry, I am not buying it. This is a hysteria driven GOP manufactured crisis, wedge issue. If parents were so concerned they should have been more involved from the get go.

 

[Rawley]

sorry, I am not buying it. This is a hysteria driven GOP manufactured crisis, wedge issue. If parents were so concerned they should have been more involved from the get go.

I doubt whether Florida cares whether or not you buy it.

 

[Subieguy]

I doubt whether Florida cares whether or not you buy it.

I could care less. I feel for minorities in Florida.

 

[code1211]

So no lessons focusing on families with two parents. Crazy.

Why is endorsement or condemnation of any family structure needed to teach children to read and write?

 

[SoCal]

As stated, Old Soul needed that help. What he didn't need was a teacher leading that discussion among his classmates, nor with him (if he was K-3rd grade).
He should have been able to find a trusted confidant, and if not hi parents or other family members, then the school counselor would do wonderfully.

No one's suggesting teacher's lead that discussion and if it would have helped Old Soul it will help thousands of others. Kids should have a trusted confidant, should have parents or should have other family members, but you can't always count on "should haves'". And most kids wanting to talk about this aren't going to confide in a counselor, essentially a stranger you see a couple times a year. Although Fox news would have you believe teachers are cranking out gay students by the thousands, there's no justification for this law other than to divide and win primaries...

 

[code1211]

No one's suggesting teacher's lead that discussion and if it would have helped Old Soul it will help thousands of others. Kids should have a trusted confidant, should have parents or should have other family members, but you can't always count on "should haves'". And most kids wanting to talk about this aren't going to confide in a counselor, essentially a stranger you see a couple times a year. Although Fox news would have you believe teachers are cranking out gay students by the thousands, there's no justification for this law other than to divide and win primaries...

Subjecting any children to abuse is a horror.

Children in Grade 3 and younger are very likely incapable of contextualizing the sort of instruction this implies.

As such, the instruction itself borders on abuse.

 

[SoCal]

Subjecting any children to abuse is a horror.

Children in Grade 3 and younger are very likely incapable of contextualizing the sort of instruction this implies.

As such, the instruction itself borders on abuse.

Jeez, who's more likely to know what's more horrific for a child to go through, the experiences Old Soul went through, or your imagined abuse? Lookup the meaning of the phrase, "straight from the horse's mouth"...

 

[code1211]

Jeez, who's more likely to know what's more horrific for a child to go through, the experiences Old Soul went through, or your imagined abuse? Lookup the meaning of the phrase, "straight from the horse's mouth"...

We need to assure that these very young children are constantly supervised and protected from the evil doers.

The goal is noble, but the recommended process is stupidly misdirected.

 

[The Old Soul]

I'm not saying that some outlet may not be needed, as it likely was for you but it just isn't, and shouldn't be teachers. The counselor would probably be my go to suggestion. Especially in today's day and age, someone in your immediate family would most assuredly sympathize with you, even if you couldn't go to your parents.

My stance is still the same since "The lack of parenting is a big issue, not just here, it is even bigger with education. Are we willing to take kids away from 'parents who cannot or do not parent' so that their child has the best outcome? If not, then they don't need to be replaced with this issue either. "

I much prefer we stay consistent throughout for kids.

Sadly, parenting does not come with a handbook to follow, and if it did, few parents would likely agree with it anyway!

The baggage that many parents are carrying can cloud or destroy good judgement, and set kids up for failure by example. Not saying that school is the best place to learn about the intricacies and social constructs of sex, but simply a relaxed and receptive attitude by a kid's teacher, counselor, or even coach might set them on the path to a referral or resource they need to deal with issues that are insurmountable and life defining to them, which may not (or should not) be issues at all.

It seems that rather than take kids away from their parents, the emphasis should be to give the 'misguided' child (or parent) a constructive rather than destructive information or guidance. Many times the root issue is not the circumstance that drives families apart and alienates kids from society, it's just the perceived consequences and parent or guardian enforced prejudices cast on an all-trusting child.

 

[The Old Soul]

I hope you find peace as your life moves forward.

Thank you. My last parent passed away in February (small family, my dad was an only child, and mom outlived all her siblings), and it was a bitter-sweet passing; more sweet than bitter - sadly she left this world not knowing, or wanting to know, a lot of things that were swept under the rug for both our entire lives that would have made all the difference in the world as a child. That weight has now been lifted (a sigh of relief). I managed to reconcile many things once reaching adulthood as many children do (and too many don't) through mostly information, and support of true and lifelong friends.

 

[The Old Soul]

Why is a classroom the place for it? Concentrate on reading, writing, math, science.

How about some life tactics? You can 'teach' a computer to read, write, do math, and apply science, but humans are vastly more complex, and might just need to know about and learn to apply ancillary knowledge beyond the yes/no, true/false of life.