Final 2012 Presidential Debate, Foreign Policy

[Velvet Elvis]

I must sacrifice what I want and simply vote for someone that is not Obama that does have a chance at winning.

My sentiments exactly.

When left with a choice of "proven failure" and "potential failure," at least the "potential failure" isn't a 100% probability like it would be with Obama.

 

[Bronson]

He looked like a fool.

On the contrary he looked calm and collected. A sitting president always has an advantage when it comes to FP. All Romney needed to do was look presidential and capable. He accomplished both in spades while Obama at the same time went small and petty.

Obama was expecting a different debate, getting lost in the weeds in benghazi. That debate didn't happen. Romney didn't fall for the trap. Romney's strategy was to purposely not be combative. He didn't need to be nor would he had gained anything by being overly aggressive. Obama's Campaign already walked back the sequestration comment as soon as the debate ended.

White House Already Backpedaling On Obama Sequestration Comments - YouTube

Even Politico said Obama diminished himself tonight

when he said the reason I call it the apology tour is that you said that america has dictated to other nations.
Since when does a statement of truth amount to an apology? Are republicans that semantically challenged - - apparently.

Or do republicans actually believe that America has not dictated to other nations? If so, then there most definitely is a republican version of history and the real version of history.

LOL Obama was in panic mode. Watch him look at the moderator. It's hilarious.

Go ahead and quote the lines from Obama's speech that were broadcast all over Arab TV. It was a national disgrace. We don't have anything to apologize for. Take Benghazi for instance, where you clowns are blaming youtube videos instead of terrorists. Romney outlined coolly how utter fail Obama's FP has been over the last 4 years. When The Iranian Protesters were begging for help Obama threw them under the bus. Going to all these countries while snubbing Israel has done absolutely nothing to get the terrorists to become pacifists, throw down their weapons, and renounce Jihad.

That's the huge 800pd gorilla in the room you laughably ignored. Look I don't really have time to explain this to you. It's not my problem that you are ignorant of the facts.

 

[Pinkie]

yeah class envy has NOTHING to do with Team Obama

start paying my tax bills and we will see how funny you think things are

I have been paying a portion of your tax bill all my life.

Would you like me to eat cat food trying to pay all of it?

 

[Zyphlin]

CNN Poll results:

Who Won
48% Obama
40% Romney

Able to handle being Commander in Chief
Obama: 63% yes / 36% no
Romney: 60% yes / 38% no

Who appeared the stronger leader
51% Obama
46% Romney

Who appeared the more likable
48% Obama
47% Romney

Who did the debate make you more likely to vote for
24% Obama
25% Romney

 

[Pinkie]

Romney probably sealed the deal in VA tonight--he basically assured the Newport News Shipyard lots of business which negates the deepwater port improvements passively attributed to Obama IMO. Maybe he gained some in Ohio a 1/2 point or so on defense spending.

The local news said Ohio was neck and neck at 6 pm. Thoughtful Ohio-based reaction won't be available until tomorrow morning, but this state cares about the economy, first, middle and last.

 

[Pinkie]

CNN Poll results:

Who Won
48% Obama
40% Romney

Able to handle being Commander in Chief
Obama: 63% yes / 36% no
Romney: 60% yes / 38% no

Who appeared the stronger leader
51% Obama
46% Romney

Who appeared the more likable
48% Obama
47% Romney

Who did the debate make you more likely to vote for
24% Obama
25% Romney

Weird, huh?

I don't feel as confident as I did two weeks ago, and I keep trying to convince myself that if Romney wins, he might not be the full-on disaster I think he'll be.

And that I would at least be able to gig Turtle for four years, so "every cloud has a silver lining".

LOL.

 

[Fisher]

The local news said Ohio was neck and neck at 6 pm. Thoughtful Ohio-based reaction won't be available until tomorrow morning, but this state cares about the economy, first, middle and last.

Somone on CNN pre-debate seemed to think Romney may be ahead slightly in OH and CO and Nevada may be going his way as well, with NH's 4 votes being the deciding state.

 

[Pinkie]

Somone on CNN pre-debate seemed to think Romney may be ahead slightly in OH and CO and Nevada may be going his way as well, with NH's 4 votes being the deciding state.

Could be -- the results of these polls probably aren't reliable inside a 5 point margin.

 

[Zyphlin]

Weird, huh?

I don't feel as confident as I did two weeks ago, and I keep trying to convince myself that if Romney wins, he might not be the full-on disaster I think he'll be.

And that I would at least be able to gig Turtle for four years, so "every cloud has a silver lining".

LOL.

Honestly, not weird at all to me.

This is not a foreign policy election. It's just not. It's an economy election. So it doesn't matter really if Obama won this debate on points...the more important thing was that Romney didn't look like he was either 1) To hot headed to be trusted with the nuclear button 2) could handle being Commander in Chief. That was really the big question for this debate, and he primarily passed. I don't think this debate was significantly going to cause people to go "OOO! I'm definitely going Romney/Obama" based on the CONTENT of what they said. I think this was a debate where people who were still mutable in terms of their vote were either going to go "Okay....I can feel okay casting a vote for Romney" or going "Okay...can't trust this guy in this capacity, so I've gotta go Obama".

Unless Romney shat the bed tonight, this was going to at worst be a push politically. He did **** the bed, and the far more telling and important results reflect that in the way I would imagine they would and similar to how they did in the 2nd debate (actually, he possibly arguably polled better in those things during the 2nd debate).

 

[AdamT]

Weird, huh?

I don't feel as confident as I did two weeks ago, and I keep trying to convince myself that if Romney wins, he might not be the full-on disaster I think he'll be.

And that I would at least be able to gig Turtle for four years, so "every cloud has a silver lining".

LOL.

I feel slightly more confident than I was two weeks ago, but certainly less confident than I was a month ago.

 

[Zyphlin]

First...saying Sequestration isn't going to happen was something that I think may have a hail mary type of shot that woo people in Northern Virginia, but I'm not too certain on that. However, it was odd since I believe Obama used the cuts that were negotiated to happen under Sequestration as part of his exploits in terms of lowering the deficit.

Second....the Bayonets and Horses comment will play well over Facebook and Memes and perhaps in general over the US. However, being a Hampton Roads resident for 6 years, I will say that it's not likely to go over very well down in that area of the state. Will it turn it? Probably not on it's own, especially certain portions that are just never going to vote Republican...but it's another straw going on the Virginia Camel's back.

 

[Pinkie]

First...saying Sequestration isn't going to happen was something that I think may have a hail mary type of shot that woo people in Northern Virginia, but I'm not too certain on that. However, it was odd since I believe Obama used the cuts that were negotiated to happen under Sequestration as part of his exploits in terms of lowering the deficit.

Second....the Bayonets and Horses comment will play well over Facebook and Memes and perhaps in general over the US. However, being a Hampton Roads resident for 6 years, I will say that it's not likely to go over very well down in that area of the state. Will it turn it? Probably not on it's own, especially certain portions that are just never going to vote Republican...but it's another straw going on the Virginia Camel's back.

O, Zyphlin.

Who cares how Virginia votes?

LOLOL.

 

[AdamT]

First...saying Sequestration isn't going to happen was something that I think may have a hail mary type of shot that woo people in Northern Virginia, but I'm not too certain on that. However, it was odd since I believe Obama used the cuts that were negotiated to happen under Sequestration as part of his exploits in terms of lowering the deficit.

Second....the Bayonets and Horses comment will play well over Facebook and Memes and perhaps in general over the US. However, being a Hampton Roads resident for 6 years, I will say that it's not likely to go over very well down in that area of the state. Will it turn it? Probably not on it's own, especially certain portions that are just never going to vote Republican...but it's another straw going on the Virginia Camel's back.

I suspect that most of the folks who might take offense at the bayonets comment weren't voting for Obama anyway.

I don't recall Obama dismissing the sequestration before but I think it's fairly well accepted in DC circles that it's not going to happen.

 

[The Giant Noodle]

My sentiments exactly.

When left with a choice of "proven failure" and "potential failure," at least the "potential failure" isn't a 100% probability like it would be with Obama.

I see youre still online so Ill ask..... How is / was Obama a failure? Be SPECIFIC. Thanks

 

[Zyphlin]

Oh, and interesting note in terms of confidence and such using one of Redress's favorite methods of tracking all election long. In Trade

At the end of September, Obama had hit his largest high in inTrade at around 79%. Romney was sitting around 21%

On October 13th Obama fell down to 59%. Romney raised to 41%. That's a 40 point swing.

On 18th Obama got back up to 65%. Romney fell to 35%.

He's now at about 61% with Romney at 39%. Pretty close to that October 13th high point for Romney.

What this tells me? The First debate was a MASSIVE momentum builder. The VP debate initially, followed by Debate 2 and 3, has helped to Slow/Stop the momentum of Romney....but not really reverse it.

Is that stopping of momentum enough? Time will tell. But this is definitely a horse race now.

 

[Zyphlin]

I suspect that most of the folks who might take offense at the bayonets comment weren't voting for Obama anyway.

I don't recall Obama dismissing the sequestration before but I think it's fairly well accepted in DC circles that it's not going to happen.

I've not heard him dismissing it before. What I was saying is I believed I had heard him include it as part of the cuts to the deficit he's helped negotiate and would do over the next 10 years. Which is why when I heard him say it won't happen tonight as a throw away aside I was shocked. I also think that while people think it's possible it won't happen, I've gotten no impression here in NOVA that people are thinking that's a definite.

As far as Hampton Roads...I'd disagree again. The Ship Building community down there touches a lot of lives, and a lot of those are your blue collar types that are as likely to be Democrat voters as Republicans in an area like hampton roads. I think some, maybe even many, may be as you say. But I do think there's a fair bit that are POSSIBLE Obama voters that were rubbed the wrong way by that one in that area.

 

[MaggieD]

I see youre still online so Ill ask..... How is / was Obama a failure? Be SPECIFIC. Thanks

You would feel differently about Obama had his campaign advisers not sewn his lips shut regards the teachers' strike.

 

[tererun]

So the debates were brought to us by the letter B. Big bird, binders, battleships, and bayonettes.

The conservatives tonight remind me of an old nursery rhyme. The wheels on the bus go round and round, and the conservatives on the bus go thump thump thum, driving down the bumpy road underneath it. Obama's policies are so good mitt romney wants to buy them. Which begs the question of why we need to elect romney at all when obama is doing exactly what he would do only Obama doesn't have the tendency to tick off foreign countries when he talks to them. Obama has wiped the floor so bad with romney that romney has jumped into Obama's corner and is pretending to be his coach.

Republicans and conservatives can say what they want, romney has officially endorsed obama for presidency at this point. He has bailed ion all you guys because you don't have enough support. You better pay attention to this because this guy will blow any way the popular opinion takes him, and that means when it comes to real policy making he will not bother with your radical issues that most people don't want. The rest of us don't need him because we already have the person in office who would do everything Romney is claiming he would do today.

Niow i am going out to play my 30 year old copy of battleship. you know the one that has only 1 battleship and a submarine, and an aircraft carrier, and a couple of other ships for fun because a good navy doesn't just have one type of ship. It has many different types of ships for different situations because one ship cannot be everything like mitt romney is trying to be.

 

[AdamT]

Oh, and interesting note in terms of confidence and such using one of Redress's favorite methods of tracking all election long. In Trade

At the end of September, Obama had hit his largest high in inTrade at around 79%. Romney was sitting around 21%

On October 13th Obama fell down to 59%. Romney raised to 41%. That's a 40 point swing.

On 18th Obama got back up to 65%. Romney fell to 35%.

He's now at about 61% with Romney at 39%. Pretty close to that October 13th high point for Romney.

What this tells me? The First debate was a MASSIVE momentum builder. The VP debate initially, followed by Debate 2 and 3, has helped to Slow/Stop the momentum of Romney....but not really reverse it.

Is that stopping of momentum enough? Time will tell. But this is definitely a horse race now.

My long view of this election is that Obama has always had a structural lead in the 1-2% range. The facial lead got jacked up by his superior convention and the subsequent 47% hoohaw, and then it got knocked down again by Romney's big win in the first debate. Now we're essentially back where we were before the conventions and I don't see a lot of change going forward, absent some kind of surprise or dire economic news.

 

[Zyphlin]

So the debates were brought to us by the letter B. Big bird, binders, battleships, and bayonettes.

The conservatives tonight remind me of an old nursery rhyme. The wheels on the bus go round and round, and the conservatives on the bus go thump thump thum, driving down the bumpy road underneath it. Obama's policies are so good mitt romney wants to buy them. Which begs the question of why we need to elect romney at all when obama is doing exactly what he would do only Obama doesn't have the tendency to tick off foreign countries when he talks to them. Obama has wiped the floor so bad with romney that romney has jumped into Obama's corner and is pretending to be his coach.

Republicans and conservatives can say what they want, romney has officially endorsed obama for presidency at this point. He has bailed ion all you guys because you don't have enough support. You better pay attention to this because this guy will blow any way the popular opinion takes him, and that means when it comes to real policy making he will not bother with your radical issues that most people don't want. The rest of us don't need him because we already have the person in office who would do everything Romney is claiming he would do today.

Niow i am going out to play my 30 year old copy of battleship. you know the one that has only 1 battleship and a submarine, and an aircraft carrier, and a couple of other ships for fun because a good navy doesn't just have one type of ship. It has many different types of ships for different situations because one ship cannot be everything like mitt romney is trying to be.

For FFC regulations you forgot the required ending for this type of campaign ad:

I'm Barack Obama, and I approve this message

Wow. There's no debating with that level of talking point spewing hyper partisanship masquerading as analysis

 

[ThePlayDrive]

For FFC regulations you forgot the required ending for this type of campaign ad:

Wow. There's no debating with that level of talking point spewing hyper partisanship masquerading as analysis

Meh, tererun's language is hyperbolic, but his general argument is accurate. Romney pretty much agreed with Obama the entire night and he changes his position on everything depending on what the public likes. There's no way to deny that.

 

[Green Balls]

They have the transcript online for people who want to pick through it.

Transcript: Third presidential debate

 

[GhostlyJoe]

First...saying Sequestration isn't going to happen was something that I think may have a hail mary type of shot that woo people in Northern Virginia, but I'm not too certain on that. However, it was odd since I believe Obama used the cuts that were negotiated to happen under Sequestration as part of his exploits in terms of lowering the deficit.

Second....the Bayonets and Horses comment will play well over Facebook and Memes and perhaps in general over the US. However, being a Hampton Roads resident for 6 years, I will say that it's not likely to go over very well down in that area of the state. Will it turn it? Probably not on it's own, especially certain portions that are just never going to vote Republican...but it's another straw going on the Virginia Camel's back.

The bayonets line was a haymaker, but Romney showed his chin by pointing to historical military staffing levels that weren't really relevant. Obama made him look foolish there.

Overall, I thought Romney missed a lot of opportunities. When given the chance, he didn't really draw a clear distinction between his and Obama's foreign policy stances. On Iran, he agrees with sanctions. On Syria, he agrees with supporting the rebellion. Even on the Israel question, I thought he was set up. Obama left him a big opening to step in and proclaim his support for Israel, and he muffed it. His basic position seems to be whatever Obama's doing, only one step farther.

Edit: I agree on the sequestration part. Obama washed his hands of it tonight, but he played a big role in forming that bastard compromise. His dismissive answer was presumptive.

 

[tererun]

For FFC regulations you forgot the required ending for this type of campaign ad:

I'm Barack Obama, and I approve this message

Wow. There's no debating with that level of talking point spewing hyper partisanship masquerading as analysis

Mitt Romney backed off all of his strong talk. This was the guy who said we cannot tolerate a nuclear Iran and need to protect isreal at all costs and the president was weak. now he thinks that war is the last possible thing and we need to give sanctions time to work? Well why do we need him to do that, we have obama already doing that. This is a guy who would have lollygagged around on gettuing Osama, but wanted to go to war with syria, and now he is all about peace? This is a guy who thinks we were way too soft on libya, but now all of a sudden he wants to be calm and rational? Well right after the attacks o our embassy he wasn't calm and rational. He was up with his bed head yelling at the president for not doing enough. That is great for a pundit or a critic of the president, but that is not the person we want calling strikes real time. We don't want him waking up in the middle of the night thinking he is the only person who can protect freedom in the world and nuking everyone because he thinks god told him to. We don't have christopher walken to try and shoot him way back when he was running for governor.

He has been running on the idea that he is different from Obama the whole time, and now he is almost the same as obama. the only difference is that he does not have obama's diplomatic ability. He has totally backed off of every hard line thing he said, and the conservatives and republicans are giving him a pass on it. They are trusting that the guy who has spent his life doing anything for money is somehow going to stick to the hard line rhetoric he was spouting that went against his old moderate tendencies. The only consistent thing about mitt is he will turn anyway the money tells him to turn, and the middle class and the poor do not have the money his rich friends have. Saudi Arabia, and countries like that are going to pay him to favor them. They will pay him to leave opening for their radicals to get into the US. China will pay him to make our country weaker and their stronger. In the end he will go with their money, and as we see will throw all of us under the bus for his profit. The republicans are going to let him because they are so hell bent on getting Obama out that they will elect anyone other than him. If this guy was on the democrat ticket there would be a landslide against him. there would be no way you could get republicans to cross the aisle for this guy if he was a dem or independent. Romney is the champion of special interest money. He is the champion of buy me politics. He is the champion of say anything to get elected bull.

And you are supporting him. That is fine and it is your right, but you are the one who is putting in a complete sellout into office. You all had a chance to have a real champion of right wing issues. you had santorum, Perry, or bachman. Why are they not there? because you could not win with them so the republicans picked a sellout in hopes he could lie his way into the white house. the only problem is no one can trust him to stand up for their values unless they have the money to buy him. That is the problem with a sell out, and that is why no one can trust them. republicans need to change. they tried running on the issues and failed. this is because no one wants those old school intollerant moral issues anymore. Obama has the integrity of any politician, and the republicans somehow found someone who could slip under that bar. Way to go.

 

[Zyphlin]

Mitt Romney backed off all of his strong talk.

And it seems to have done well for him. CNN's poll showed him with a 1% edge in who the debate ended up making people vote for, was only 3 points back from Obama in terms of being able to handle being CIC, only 5 back on being a strong leader, and only one back on like ability. You can quibble all you want on flip flopping, etch a sketch, etc...but politically, taking a less strong armed stance in this debate likely played better compared to how he's been attempted to be presented during this election.

He has been running on the idea that he is different from Obama the whole time, and now he is almost the same as obama.

I'm guessing you're talking ONLY about Foreign policy? Yes, you're right, he did sound a lot like Obama. Romney went more moderate than he has in the past on foreign policy. As such, it's not surprising that he sounded like Obama once doing that, since one of the big things Liberals complain about (and one of the few places you'll get some Conservatives giving SOME credit to Obama) is that Obama moved very center if not outright to the right on certain portions of Foreign policy.

Drones, Gitmo, Rendition, ignoring sovereign borders, pushing for regime change, etc.

Obama, to a point, also had Romney agreeing with him because OBAMA also shifted. Note Israel went from ONE of our "closest" allies in the Middle East to "greatest" ally in the region.

However...in an election cycle focused on the Economy more than anything else, suggesting that agreeing with Obama on a number of things in Foreign Policy is equal to "endorsing him for President" is laughable. But what can I expect from someone sitting here with a straight face suggesting ANY President is going to literally take money from foreign nations to purposefully weaken our country.