Fellow republicans: explain why the shutdown and default is good fiscal policy.

[Perotista]

I've been hearing mixed messages on the above. I kept seeing reference to the 980 billion, but that it was only for a funding bill that lasts through the Debt Ceiling Crisis and not the level for the full year. In which case it's kind of a disingenuous notion to put out.

Politically speaking, the Republicans would've been far more intelligent to string out the ACA thing right up till the point of no return, and worked on getting a full year CR at lower spending levels as a fall back. Could've gone back to their base and truthfully say they did everything reasonably possible to stop ACA at this point, AND that they managed to cut spending. I think actually going forward with a shutdown over this was amazingly stupid politically.

My sentiments exactly. I couldn't have said it better.

 

[Perotista]

It needs to be about mandatory spending.. Obama punted on it the last go around. Fed lies about working on it.. and here we are.. mandatory spending is SOARING in costs.

Personally I would like to see a freeze at current levels. I think they are around 3.7 trillion, freeze that spending there until the budget is balanced. I mean when total spending equals no more than total revenues. Due to the habit of congress putting certain spending off budget, you can have a balanced budget or even a small surplus there and still spend more than this nation takes in where at the end of the year the deficit goes up, not down.

 

[Linc]

Since polls are cited for ACA, why weren't polls cited for Toomey-Manchin? Those polls were over 90%, not under 60% like ACA, which Repubs know will be coming down, their greatest fear--something Obama will work; again.

Sort of like when dems were in control and passed ACA although the public was against it.

Is that also the role of the President and the Senate who are equally responsible.

 

[joG]

There are many ways of addressing our nation's many serious problems that don't involve undermining our economy further.

That is what one would think. Sorrily both a reduction of the deficit and Obamacare will slow the economy initially.

 

[washunut]

Since polls are cited for ACA, why weren't polls cited for Toomey-Manchin? Those polls were over 90%, not under 60% like ACA, which Repubs know will be coming down, their greatest fear--something Obama will work; again.

Did that bill impact 17% of the economy? Would all democrats vote for it? Silly comparison.

Try this one. Everyone including the President says entitlements are our long term problem. How is adding one part of the solution.

 

[Linc]

How is ignoring 18 pleas for a House-Senate conference before August recess any way to run this govt?
Cantor planned this all along with the Ryan budget, after admitting he got all he wanted.
Want SILLY? Today, right now, they want concessions and can't tell you what they are.

Did that bill impact 17% of the economy? Would all democrats vote for it? Silly comparison.

Try this one. Everyone including the President says entitlements are our long term problem. How is adding one part of the solution.

 

[ARealConservative]

As a republican and a staunch conservative... I really would like those that support the shutdown and the debt limit fight to explain how doing such is in line with fiscal responsibility

what an odd question. First, explain how an ever increasing debt limit amounts to fiscal responsibility?

 

[washunut]

How is ignoring 18 pleas for a House-Senate conference before August recess any way to run this govt?
Cantor planned this all along with the Ryan budget, after admitting he got all he wanted.
Want SILLY? Today, right now, they want concessions and can't tell you what they are.

The media talks about this conference which was on a budget. This has little to do with the appropriation bills that actually fund the government. The house has passed 4 of something like 12 or 13, the senate has taken up ZERO.

As to your last comment, not sure if you are working age, but people do not put out their bottom line before negotiations start.

 

[Linc]

The bottom line was the clean CR that Boehner PROMISED Senate leaders in the last week of September.
Surely you have seen the multiple Dem Senate charges of 'bait-and-switch' which Boehner has not defended.
This is about Cantor against Obama and his 2008 election night battle plan.
I'll bring my centrist budget ideas back up with a clean CR.
Until then, I'll refer to Sen. Coburn's back-in-black plan of July 2011--etc.

The media talks about this conference which was on a budget. This has little to do with the appropriation bills that actually fund the government. The house has passed 4 of something like 12 or 13, the senate has taken up ZERO.

As to your last comment, not sure if you are working age, but people do not put out their bottom line before negotiations start.

 

[Linc]

It doesn't.
But neither does giving a higher interest rate to buyers of Treasury bills, Tuesday night.
Cost of governing just went up unnecessarily.
Then the Koch letter to Senate Repubs yesterday with Christie's visit.
And today, Senate Repubs trying to bail Boehner out vs. Cantor.

what an odd question. First, explain how an ever increasing debt limit amounts to fiscal responsibility?

 

[Linc]

Appropriations Chair Rogers no longer has anything to do on bills either.
I was hoping for his sanity.

The media talks about this conference which was on a budget. This has little to do with the appropriation bills that actually fund the government. The house has passed 4 of something like 12 or 13, the senate has taken up ZERO.

As to your last comment, not sure if you are working age, but people do not put out their bottom line before negotiations start.

 

[ARealConservative]

It doesn't.
But neither does giving a higher interest rate to buyers of Treasury bills, Tuesday night.
Cost of governing just went up unnecessarily.
Then the Koch letter to Senate Repubs yesterday with Christie's visit.
And today, Senate Repubs trying to bail Boehner out vs. Cantor.

the game of chicken apparently includes pretending you can't service the interest on the debt to prevent a default. So long as the democratic side want to lie about fundamental things to the american people, I think we need to let this play out.

 

[jonny5]

As a republican and a staunch conservative... I really would like those that support the shutdown and the debt limit fight to explain how doing such is in line with fiscal responsibility

False premise, no one is planning to use default as a fiscal policy. However, the reasons why shutdown is good policy is obvious. It forces govt to stop spending more than it can afford. Next question.

 

[minnie616]

I agree with Fareed's take which aired on his GPS show last Sunday
explained that the Government Shutdown Ploy by the House
was

extortion, not democracy.

he also went on to explain that

If Democrats had threatened to shut down the government to force the repeal of the Bush tax cuts or defund the Iraq War, I would have hoped Bush would have also been uncompromising.

From this article:

That is what is at stake in Washington this week. The debate going on there
is not trivial, not transitory – and not about Obamacare. Whatever you think about the Affordable Care Act, it is a law that was passed by the House of Representatives and the Senate, then signed by the president, and then validated by the Supreme Court as constitutional.

This does not mean it cannot be repealed. Of course it can be repealed, as can most laws. But to do so, it would need another piece of legislation – one that says quite simply “The Affordable Care Act is hereby repealed in its entirety” – that passes the House and Senate and is then signed into law by the president.

But what cannot be allowed to stand is the notion that if a group of legislators cannot convince a majority in both houses and the president to agree with them, they will shut down the government or threaten to default until they can get their way. That is extortion, not democracy.

I would be happy to see President Barack Obama compromise on the budget, taxes, spending – even health care. But he cannot compromise on the principle that the rules of democracy must be respected, whatever the outcome.

If Democrats had threatened to shut down the government to force the repeal of the Bush tax cuts or defund the Iraq War, I would have hoped Bush would have also been uncompromising.

read more:


How to solve the crisis in Washington – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs

 

[TheNextEra]

once again...the GOP is not holding up the government. They have passed 4 distinct separate options that would allow for a CR and discussion on the future of the ACA. The petulant children in the democrat party are the ones that reuse to consider any other option other than everything they want. Their childish actions at the parks throughout the county quite clearly demonstrate who is the 'problem'. And judging on recent opinion polls, even democrats are seeing it more and more.

The polls have shown BOTH parties are taking a hit by the American people, so obviously people don't give a pass to the GOP either.

 

[Linc]

Ryan will introduce a short-term debt ceiling hike alonside spending cuts, listening to the KOCHs.
Aren't you glad they waited till September for these theatrics.
We don't know what they want from one day to the next. Neither do they.

the game of chicken apparently includes pretending you can't service the interest on the debt to prevent a default. So long as the democratic side want to lie about fundamental things to the american people, I think we need to let this play out.

 

[TheNextEra]

While I disagree with this method, let's be honest here TNE. The supposed "power" of the House is the "power of the purse". The "Power" they are supposed to have in the dichotomy of the government is revolving around budgetary matters. Yet for FIVE YEARS we've not passed a budget, with some years the Senate majority leader not even allowing submitted budget proposals from the House to even REACH the senate floor for debate let alone actually let it reach a final vote.

You're right, one side of the Senate SHOULDN'T "hold up the government". That said, the other side of the Senate shouldn't essentially refuse to even DEAL with anything coming out of the other side simply because they dislike it, effectively "holding up the government" unless they go along with what the Senate wants.

BOTH sides have been playing these games, both sides are attempting to leverage every ounce of capabilities their portion of the government is able to do, and BOTH sides stubbornness and games of one-up's-menship are led to this eventual quagmire we're in currently.

The whole budget thing is another issue and in that I agree with you. But it doesn't excuse one side holding up the government for it either. And while I think the GOP is acting like spoiled brats on the ACA issue, I don't agree with how the Dems have run things that have led up. I have said time and time again, BOTH sides are at fault for the actions that have led up to the government shutdown. I just think on the ACA issue the GOP is acting like spoiled brats. Just because I fault the GOP on the issue of the ACA does not mean I agree to how the Dems have handled things either.

 

[Linc]

apparently Repubs are buying into the meme that only the interest on the debt needs to be paid.
Forget about all the others we owe.
markets are reacting real well to that.

the game of chicken apparently includes pretending you can't service the interest on the debt to prevent a default. So long as the democratic side want to lie about fundamental things to the american people, I think we need to let this play out.

 

[jonny5]

apparently Repubs are buying into the meme that only the interest on the debt needs to be paid.
Forget about all the others we owe.
markets are reacting real well to that.

Who else do we owe that not paying would be considered a financial default?

 

[davidtaylorjr]

As a republican and a staunch conservative... I really would like those that support the shutdown and the debt limit fight to explain how doing such is in line with fiscal responsibility

Well for starters you can't combine the two, they are two separate issues.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

There is NOTHING "staunch conservative" about your message. It is Democrats who shut down the government, not Republicans and it is not staunch conservative to declare it impossible not to endlessly increase the budget and debt. Your message is typical wolf in sheep's clothing.

Riiiiight. "Officer, I'm the husband, but it wasn't me who let the house burn down - it was my wife! It's her fault because all she had to do was to agree to whatever I wanted, and I could have put the fire out. But because she didn't agree to whatever I wanted, the house HAD to burn down! It's HER fault!"

 

[VanceMack]

The polls have shown BOTH parties are taking a hit by the American people, so obviously people don't give a pass to the GOP either.

No, nor should they. At the end of the day there is really not much difference between the two parties, at least in terms of effort and conduct.

 

[ARealConservative]

apparently Repubs are buying into the meme that only the interest on the debt needs to be paid.
Forget about all the others we owe.
markets are reacting real well to that.

you seem confused here. People are buying into facts about what options we have. That isn't a meme, it is a discussion of the actual realities in the world.

the democratic narrative is based on lies. We can continue this shutdown and not default on our debt. Your president is lying again. When do you guys say enough is enough and demand honesty from the administration?

 

[upsideguy]

There is NOTHING "staunch conservative" about your message. It is Democrats who shut down the government, not Republicans and it is not staunch conservative to declare it impossible not to endlessly increase the budget and debt. Your message is typical wolf in sheep's clothing.

:lamo:lamo:lamo

.... and you guys call yourselves the party of personal responsibility.

:lamo:lamo

Please explain how the dems shut down the government; by refusing to negotiate on a rider about Obamacare that was 1) not germane and 2) was an obvious non-starter. Sorry, but its congresses job, particularly the house, to ensure the funding of the government. When they failed to get a budget passed, its their job to come up with the extension.

Keep thinking that this is all the Dems fault.... keep thinking that all the way to political irrelevance. The Cons are rapidly becoming a minority party. They just are good at leveraging their minority and making a lot of noise.

 

[Vern]

you seem confused here. People are buying into facts about what options we have. That isn't a meme, it is a discussion of the actual realities in the world.

the democratic narrative is based on lies. We can continue this shutdown and not default on our debt. Your president is lying again. When do you guys say enough is enough and demand honesty from the administration?

more proof that cons just post any string of words that sound good. Yes, we can continue the shutdown and not default on the debt. what you missed or dont comprehend or your radio masters didnt tell you is that pubs started threatening not to raise the debt ceiling. That would cause a default. when you figure out the simple stuff come back and we can straighten out your misconceptions about who to blame.