Fellow republicans: explain why the shutdown and default is good fiscal policy.

[jaeger19]

As a republican and a staunch conservative... I really would like those that support the shutdown and the debt limit fight to explain how doing such is in line with fiscal responsibility

 

[joko104]

There is NOTHING "staunch conservative" about your message. It is Democrats who shut down the government, not Republicans and it is not staunch conservative to declare it impossible not to endlessly increase the budget and debt. Your message is typical wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[clownboy]

Well, for me I see the taking on of Obamacare as buying a second house on the credit card while the first house is near forfeiture. AND it's, again for me, delightful to finally see politicians actually represent their constituencies (who want Obamacare gone), even when they're taking hits in the press for it.

 

[WillyPete]

There is NOTHING "staunch conservative" about your message. It is Democrats who shut down the government, not Republicans and it is not staunch conservative to declare it impossible not to endlessly increase the budget and debt. Your message is typical wolf in sheep's clothing.

If your cause is righteous, what's wrong with an honest answer?

Can I presume that you prefer the shutdown to allowing the House to vote on a "clean CR?"

Do you prefer a default?

 

[Comunitee]

Now, the shutdown isn't even good scientific policly.

Government Shutdown Puts A Chill On Scientific Research

 

[VanceMack]

I am a conservative and a registered Libertarian. I dont think the government shutdown and a debt default is a 'good thing'. I think continued failed fiscal responsibility with absolutely no end in sight is a worse thing. Neither the shutdown NOR a default had to occur. The House has passed 4 spending bills so far. Democrats have consistently said the same thing..."why should we negotiate?" Whether you agree that they should or not, it is undeniable those that refuse to negotiate are 'causing' the shutdown.

Re funding of Obamacare...the president and democrats are acting like little children. They got their ass beat at the game hundreds of times and kept coming back only to get their ass beat again and again and again. Then...finally...they 'won'! Yay1 They passed legislation which none of them bothered to read and which carries such dire economic consequence that even the president after offering hundreds of exemptions to his buddies, has decided to suspend the Business mandate. And their response? "We won...thats it...we arent playing anymore. Game Over La la la la we are not listening la la la la la la la ...." Funny how when they lost they didnt just stop...you know..."get over it". And the same people saying..."hey! Its law! back off!!!!" are they 'getting over it" when it cmes to State laws, constitutional amendments, and gay marriage? No...of course not..but thats "different."

The debt ceiling will have to be raised. That part is unavoidable. The question is do we end up in the same place 6 months from now or a year from now doing the same thing?

 

[VanceMack]

Now, the shutdown isn't even good scientific policly.

Government Shutdown Puts A Chill On Scientific Research

How much government funding does it take to falsify your data to make it fit your hypothesis for petes sake...

 

[WillyPete]

Well, for me I see the taking on of Obamacare as buying a second house on the credit card while the first house is near forfeiture. AND it's, again for me, delightful to finally see politicians actually represent their constituencies (who want Obamacare gone), even when they're taking hits in the press for it.

So where's your line? Are you prepared to go into default over this?

Is that what their constituencies want, if it comes down to default or Obamacare?

 

[Neomalthusian]

When I internet search "whose fault is the government shutdown," the flood of partisan rhetoric causes my computer to crash, so honestly I haven't been keeping up with the latest blame game pissing contest rhetoric from D.C.

In terms of what counts as "good fiscal policy" nowadays, there's really no such thing anymore. We've already spent ourselves into a situation where we can't apply fiscally conservative principles without worsening the debt, nor can we apply liberal economic principles without worsening the debt. According to pessimists like Kyle Bass, "it's serious pain now, or apocalyptic pain later." According to liberal demand-siders like, say, Paul Krugman, there are two objectives: 1) promote the Democratic Party and 2) use government spending to give money to poor people which will stimulate demand and cause sufficient inflation to grow the economy because that is the only way we have left to deal with the debt.

That's the only solution, we're told: government spending to make the economy grow to offset government spending. The debt is too large and the economy too dependent on continued massive spending and deep deficits to deal with it any other way.

 

[TheNextEra]

I am a conservative and a registered Libertarian. I dont think the government shutdown and a debt default is a 'good thing'. I think continued failed fiscal responsibility with absolutely no end in sight is a worse thing. Neither the shutdown NOR a default had to occur. The House has passed 4 spending bills so far. Democrats have consistently said the same thing..."why should we negotiate?" Whether you agree that they should or not, it is undeniable those that refuse to negotiate are 'causing' the shutdown.

Re funding of Obamacare...the president and democrats are acting like little children. They got their ass beat at the game hundreds of times and kept coming back only to get their ass beat again and again and again. Then...finally...they 'won'! Yay1 They passed legislation which none of them bothered to read and which carries such dire economic consequence that even the president after offering hundreds of exemptions to his buddies, has decided to suspend the Business mandate. And their response? "We won...thats it...we arent playing anymore. Game Over La la la la we are not listening la la la la la la la ...." Funny how when they lost they didnt just stop...you know..."get over it". And the same people saying..."hey! Its law! back off!!!!" are they 'getting over it" when it cmes to State laws, constitutional amendments, and gay marriage? No...of course not..but thats "different."

The debt ceiling will have to be raised. That part is unavoidable. The question is do we end up in the same place 6 months from now or a year from now doing the same thing?

And the 40 times it was put to a vote, along with a SCOTUS decision, it PASSED. It wasn't just a ONE TIME thing as you claim.

 

[VanceMack]

And the 40 times it was put to a vote, along with a SCOTUS decision, it PASSED. It wasn't just a ONE TIME thing as you claim.

It passed. One time. And yes...the Supreme Court said it was OK to impose a tax. So...Dems won that round. Thats fact. A bunch of morons passed legislation they never read buoyed up and supported by a bunch of morons in the electorate that didnt know what they were supporting...but you bet...you 'won'. That doesnt mean you won and it is over and never to be discussed again. It 'passed' for one reason...at the time, democrats held a majority. So why is it that you think the republicans should do the EXACT same thing democrats did when they had the majority? And we can assume you are as staunch in your support of the states that passed laws and in fact constitutional amendments banning gay marriage, right? Oh...no...wait...thats 'different'....

 

[TheNextEra]

It passed. One time. And yes...the Supreme Court said it was OK to impose a tax. So...Dems won that round. Thats fact. A bunch of morons passed legislation they never read buoyed up and supported by a bunch of morons in the electorate that didnt know what they were supporting...but you bet...you 'won'. That doesnt mean you won and it is over and never to be discussed again. It 'passed' for one reason...at the time, democrats held a majority. So why is it that you think the republicans should do the EXACT same thing democrats did when they had the majority? And we can assume you are as staunch in your support of the states that passed laws and in fact constitutional amendments banning gay marriage, right? Oh...no...wait...thats 'different'....

40 times it has been up for a vote and it PASSED. The simple solution is to win elections. If the GOP can't do that, then to bad, the GOP are the ones acting like spoiled children.

 

[jaeger19]

There is NOTHING "staunch conservative" about your message. It is Democrats who shut down the government, not Republicans and it is not staunch conservative to declare it impossible not to endlessly increase the budget and debt. Your message is typical wolf in sheep's clothing.

Fact. The democrats would pass a clean bill on the debt ceiling. The republicans are the ones saying no.. unless other conditions are met. and that squarely puts the shutdown in the republican corner. (by the way part of being a conservative is taking responsibility for ones actions. and rightly or wrongly.. the republicans are the cause of the shutdown.. fact).


And nowhere.. absolutely no where did I ever say that we need to "endlessly increase the budget and debt"...

I am asking that is shutting down the government.. which is hurting the economy (which reduces our government revenue) and risking default (which again will not only hurt the economy again lowering revenue, but also potentially increasing cost if interest rates have to rise to cover the perception of increased risk) is a sound fiscal policy?

I DON'T think that we need to endlessly increase our debt.. and one of the ways to prevent that is to reduce spending and increase revenue in a fiscally sound manner. So again.. please tell me how shutting down the government and risking default, and hurting the economy and risking higher interest rates on our debt is fiscally sound....

 

[head of joaquin]

It passed. One time. And yes...the Supreme Court said it was OK to impose a tax. So...Dems won that round. Thats fact. A bunch of morons passed legislation they never read buoyed up and supported by a bunch of morons in the electorate that didnt know what they were supporting...but you bet...you 'won'. That doesnt mean you won and it is over and never to be discussed again. It 'passed' for one reason...at the time, democrats held a majority. So why is it that you think the republicans should do the EXACT same thing democrats did when they had the majority? And we can assume you are as staunch in your support of the states that passed laws and in fact constitutional amendments banning gay marriage, right? Oh...no...wait...thats 'different'....

So you're that upset over a conservative piece of legislation, generated by a conservative thinktank, espoused by conservative blow hards like Gingrich and passed by a conservative governor who became the GOP's presidential nominee?

It's almost as if you're totally irrational.

 

[jaeger19]

Well, for me I see the taking on of Obamacare as buying a second house on the credit card while the first house is near forfeiture. AND it's, again for me, delightful to finally see politicians actually represent their constituencies (who want Obamacare gone), even when they're taking hits in the press for it.

Using your example.. then what this is doing is placing the first house IN forfeiture... because you are worried that the second house might bankrupt you in the future.

Its kind of like you are saying that if your wife decides to go add to your debt.. your response will be to quit your job and place your whole fortune at risk to prove a point to her.

Please explain the fiscal responsibility in that.

 

[VanceMack]

40 times it has been up for a vote and it PASSED. The simple solution is to win elections. If the GOP can't do that, then to bad, the GOP are the ones acting like spoiled children.

In case you missed it they DID win an election..an election in RESPONSE to the democrat actions. And guess what...with that win, they were given control of the purse strings. You know...you might even call that a 'mandate'.

How many years did democrats try to pass heath care and 'lose'? And...about that whole gay marriage thing............

 

[TheNextEra]

In case you missed it they DID win an election..an election in RESPONSE to the democrat actions. And guess what...with that win, they were given control of the purse strings. You know...you might even call that a 'mandate'.

How many years did democrats try to pass heath care and 'lose'? And...about that whole gay marriage thing............

Again, the GOP did not win the Senate. And yes, 40 times it was put up to get rid of the ACA and it FAILED. The GOP needs to win elections IN THE SENATE as well if they don't like it. The House does not get to dicate EVERYTHING. The ACA passed, get the GOP to win the House AND the Senate and repeal it. Until then, they are acting like spoiled little brats that can't get their way.

And as for gay marriage? I haven't seen the Dems shutdown the government over gay marriage.

 

[jaeger19]

I am a conservative and a registered Libertarian. I dont think the government shutdown and a debt default is a 'good thing'. I think continued failed fiscal responsibility with absolutely no end in sight is a worse thing. Neither the shutdown NOR a default had to occur. The House has passed 4 spending bills so far. Democrats have consistently said the same thing..."why should we negotiate?" Whether you agree that they should or not, it is undeniable those that refuse to negotiate are 'causing' the shutdown.

Re funding of Obamacare...the president and democrats are acting like little children. They got their ass beat at the game hundreds of times and kept coming back only to get their ass beat again and again and again. Then...finally...they 'won'! Yay1 They passed legislation which none of them bothered to read and which carries such dire economic consequence that even the president after offering hundreds of exemptions to his buddies, has decided to suspend the Business mandate. And their response? "We won...thats it...we arent playing anymore. Game Over La la la la we are not listening la la la la la la la ...." Funny how when they lost they didnt just stop...you know..."get over it". And the same people saying..."hey! Its law! back off!!!!" are they 'getting over it" when it cmes to State laws, constitutional amendments, and gay marriage? No...of course not..but thats "different."

The debt ceiling will have to be raised. That part is unavoidable. The question is do we end up in the same place 6 months from now or a year from now doing the same thing?

Just to point out.. months before this deal.. we (the republicans) had the democrats agreeing to reduce the budget down to BELOW the ryan budget.. in return for no government shutdown, and passing the debt ceiling for a believe a year. The democrats weren't happy, but the president was able to get them to fall in line, in return for no government shutdown, and the passing of the debt ceiling.

Our leadership WALKED AWAY from that deal, because of a few nutjobs and insisted that not only we basically get everything we wanted on the budget but that we ALSO have to go after Obamacare by defunding it.

Now I ask you.. is it fiscally sound.. to throw our economy into a tizzy... and walk away from a chance to further lower the deficit... because of a bill that quite frankly ... YOU and a lot of my fellow republicans haven't read either. (my apologies if you have actually read the bill). I mean.. isn't it interesting that we republicans criticize the democrats for not reading the bill and not knowing whats in it.. while we demogague the bill and yet admit that we haven't read it either?

 

[VanceMack]

Again, the GOP did not win the Senate. And yes, 40 times it was put up to get rid of the ACA and it FAILED. The GOP needs to win elections IN THE SENATE as well if they don't like it. The House does not get to dicate EVERYTHING. The ACA passed, get the GOP to win the House AND the Senate and repeal it. Until then, they are acting like spoiled little brats that can't get their way.

And as for gay marriage? I haven't seen the Dems shutdown the government over gay marriage.

The GOP won the house. The House passes spending legislation. And should they win a majority in the Senate as well as the house, then you will be way cool with them repealing ACA outright? Awesome...in the meantime...they do what they do. Its how the system works.

So...since there have been laws passed and amendments passed...people should just get over it re gay marriage, right?

 

[jaeger19]

When I internet search "whose fault is the government shutdown," the flood of partisan rhetoric causes my computer to crash, so honestly I haven't been keeping up with the latest blame game pissing contest rhetoric from D.C.

In terms of what counts as "good fiscal policy" nowadays, there's really no such thing anymore. We've already spent ourselves into a situation where we can't apply fiscally conservative principles without worsening the debt, nor can we apply liberal economic principles without worsening the debt. According to pessimists like Kyle Bass, "it's serious pain now, or apocalyptic pain later." According to liberal demand-siders like, say, Paul Krugman, there are two objectives: 1) promote the Democratic Party and 2) use government spending to give money to poor people which will stimulate demand and cause sufficient inflation to grow the economy because that is the only way we have left to deal with the debt.

That's the only solution, we're told: government spending to make the economy grow to offset government spending. The debt is too large and the economy too dependent on continued massive spending and deep deficits to deal with it any other way.

Well.. I would submit that the problem is that fiscally conservative policies WOULD work.. its simply that a group of liberals (for example the tea party) has corrupted what conservatism really is. You can't be conservative and then claim that the revenue side of government doesn't matter. You can't be fiscally sound when you say that government spending doesn't matter, just as you can't be fiscally sound by saying that government spending is ALL that matters.

 

[TheNextEra]

The GOP won the house. The House passes spending legislation. And should they win a majority in the Senate as well as the house, then you will be way cool with them repealing ACA outright? Awesome...in the meantime...they do what they do. Its how the system works.

Sure, I'd be fine with it. Until then the GOP is acting like spoiled little brats that can't get their way.

So...since there have been laws passed and amendments passed...people should just get over it re gay marriage, right?

You are so desperate it's funny. I never said a law COULDN'T be repealed, I said that if you wanted it repealed you win elections. You might have a point if the Dems forced a shutdown because of gay marriage, but since it isn't the same your comments are just pathetic.

 

[jaeger19]

In case you missed it they DID win an election..an election in RESPONSE to the democrat actions. And guess what...with that win, they were given control of the purse strings. You know...you might even call that a 'mandate'.

How many years did democrats try to pass heath care and 'lose'? And...about that whole gay marriage thing............

I am sorry.. so your point seems to be that its okay to shut down the government and risk default as a way to get your way in congress, if the normal voting process doesn't work?

How many times did the democrats pass healthcare and lose? A lot...


Tell me... how would you feel about them "standing on principle".. if during those times.. they refused to allow the debt ceiling to be raised until they had a single payer healthcare system in America?

Is that what you think the parties should do? Drive our economy into the ditch unless they get their way?

Should Obama veto a debt ceiling bill because it doesn't include gun control measures that he wants?

I would really like to know if you would support the democrats doing exactly what we republicans are doing.

 

[Neomalthusian]

Well.. I would submit that the problem is that fiscally conservative policies WOULD work.. its simply that a group of liberals (for example the tea party) has corrupted what conservatism really is. You can't be conservative and then claim that the revenue side of government doesn't matter. You can't be fiscally sound when you say that government spending doesn't matter, just as you can't be fiscally sound by saying that government spending is ALL that matters.

It's a problem of partisanship. People will passively accept or even actively defend the very policies they rail against if it's people in their own parties orchestrating it.

Partisan liberals complain about the Bush tax cuts for the rich but suddenly go silent when you remind them of the Clinton/Summers capital gains tax cut of the late nineties (the REAL tax cut for the rich). They complain about financial deregulation but go silent about the fact that Gramm-Leach-Bliley passed the Senate with a 90-8 vote, championed strongly by Democrats, and also go silent about the fact that Obama and the Democrats cowered to the bank lobby and obediently pushed out the one guy in Washington with the balls to actually regulate derivatives. The go silent about non-defensive wars, environmentalism, and a host of other issues as long as their favorite political team is winning.

Partisanship is the disease here.

 

[VanceMack]

Sure, I'd be fine with it. Until then the GOP is acting like spoiled little brats that can't get their way.



You are so desperate it's funny. I never said a law COULDN'T be repealed, I said that if you wanted it repealed you win elections. You might have a point if the Dems forced a shutdown because of gay marriage, but since it isn't the same your comments are just pathetic.

Until then, the GOP will do what it is doing. They passed a funding bill, denied. They passed a funding bill with a suspension of the individual mandate (as with the business mandate), denied. They passed 2 individual funding bills, denied. Denied by democrats in the senate. No negotiation. And you think the GOP looks childish? Yeah...the parks situation pretty much shows who the petulant children are. :lamo

Not desperate at all. Legislation is passed...amendments passed. Opponents should just get over it.

 

[VanceMack]

I am sorry.. so your point seems to be that its okay to shut down the government and risk default as a way to get your way in congress, if the normal voting process doesn't work?

How many times did the democrats pass healthcare and lose? A lot...


Tell me... how would you feel about them "standing on principle".. if during those times.. they refused to allow the debt ceiling to be raised until they had a single payer healthcare system in America?

Is that what you think the parties should do? Drive our economy into the ditch unless they get their way?

Should Obama veto a debt ceiling bill because it doesn't include gun control measures that he wants?

I would really like to know if you would support the democrats doing exactly what we republicans are doing.

the debt ceiling and ACA are two separate issues, both of which need to be addressed and neither of which ARE being addressed. Its funny how you and others think it is only the GOP not addressing it when there is very obvious evidence just how petulant and childish the administration is being (especially funny what with you being a republican and all). The government doesn't have to be shut down. The GOP has to date given the democrats 4 separate options, none of which involve a repeal or elimination of the ACA. The democrats refuse to act on the ACA. Neither party is doing ANYTHING with regard to the debt ceiling other than spending more money. It's laughable to even call it a debt ceiling.