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Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

"A child." Old enough to join the Marines. And possibly in the physical condition to do so too.

Nothing illegal about watching and following someone. Not illegal for someone with a conceal-permit to have a "loaded weapon" IF it is not a prohibited weapon.

Whenever you are done dodging my question, please do try to answer it.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Listen to the 911 tapes. Zimmerman openly admits to that. Witness saw it. Martins girlfriend confirmed it. How much more proof do you need? HOw about you show something to contradict it. Or that explains why Zimmerman did anything tht he did that day beginning with following Martin with a loaded handgun.

Well, as I've written many times, in my opinion Zimmerman is bored, lonely, low intelligence, paranoid asshole with emotional and psychological issues.

If you think I've posted anywhere I believe Zimmerman is innocent post a link to it, other than law presumes him innocent until a judge or jury formally declares him guilty in a final verdict.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Whenever you are done dodging my question, please do try to answer it.

That one also was an answer. Your portraying this as a "grown man" following "a child" is a deliberate editorial distortion.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I'm not too sure where you are getting your information from. The latest details on this story, that I saw reported on CNN and Fox News last night, is that not only are their multiple witnesses to the shooting but that the shooting is captured live on Martin's cell phone. He did nothing, saw his attacker watching him, saw his attacker approaching him (all while on the phone describing what was happening to his girlfriend as it was happening) and then he was pushed down by Zimmerman and shot point blank. Martin was simply guilty of walking down the street. The audio recording of the entire incident has been released to the public and there is not one shred of evidence that Martin did anything wrong, much less to justify cold blooded murder.

Over a half million people have signed a petition to have this matter thoroughly investigated and prosecuted. I suspect that very shortly Zimmerman will be arrested and I hope they "throw the book" at him.
you have access to better sources than i have found
how about sharing the cites with us
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

So we have 911 calls from several witnesses who can't clearly see anything that's going on other than what "it looks like". You have Zimmerman's 911 call asking for Police. And you have Martin's girlfriend's account of what he said on the phone( no actual recording of the call, although I'm sure the police have asked the cell company for it ).

Do we know for 100% certain that Zimmerman pushed Martin first? It should be clear that there was a fight, since Zimmerman has a bloodied nose and back of the head and Martin has a fatal gunshot wound to the chest.

Do we know if Zimmerman pulled the gun to start the fight?

We wont know the answers until law enforcement releases a statement indicating what they believe happened, based on the evidence they've collected and interviews, not what is reported in the media. Debating what the media says could have happened, or what witnesses say appeared to have happened, is pointless( but it sure is fun ).
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

That one also was an answer. Your portraying this as a "grown man" following "a child" is a deliberate editorial distortion.

As you continue to troll me and dodge the question, which part of that statement is not true? Was Zimmerman not grown? Was Martin not a child? Was Zimmerman not following Martin?
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

As you continue to troll me and dodge the question, which part of that statement is not true? Was Zimmerman not grown? Was Martin not a child? Was Zimmerman not following Martin?

17..is a child?
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

This wasn't a gang banger. This was a good kid walking home with some Skittles and iced tea from the 711.

"Are you following him?"
"Yes."
"We don't need you to do that."

If no one has posted the complete 911 calls, here's a link: 911 calls paint picture of chaos after Florida teen is shot – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

"This guy looks like he's up to no good."

Really?

Guilty of black-while-walking?

This man may not be prosecuted. But I hope it results in this Stand Your Ground law being tweaked to where private citizens cannot precipitate situations that results in an unarmed man being killed.

Edit: I can tell you this: If I were slowly followed in a car while I was walking at night . . . and then a guy got out of the car and came towards me asking me questions, I'd have been scared to death. If I had a gun, I might pull it out and aim it at the guy. Then I could stand MY ground. Hell, I wouldn't even pull over in my car at night if an unmarked police car with a siren on the dashboard tried to pull me over. Neighborhood Watch = License to Harrass?? What a tragedy.
 
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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

but there is an eyewitness who says the kid assaulted that person who approached the kid, asking him what he was doing in the community
if that eyewitness account is not found to be nonfactual, then we must conclude that the kid did more than walk down the street. he assaulted someone. and that someone defended himself with lethal force

There's also evidence that Zimmerman chased him down and initiated the confrontation.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

This wasn't a gang banger. This was a good kid walking home with some Skittles and iced tea from the 711.

"Are you following him?"
"Yes."
"We don't need you to do that."

If no one has posted the complete 911 calls, here's a link: 911 calls paint picture of chaos after Florida teen is shot – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

"This guy looks like he's up to no good."

Really?

Guilty of black-while-walking?

This man may not be prosecuted. But I hope it results in this Stand Your Ground law being tweaked to where private citizens cannot precipitate situations that results in an unarmed man being killed.

Edit: I can tell you this: If I were slowly followed in a car while I was walking at night . . . and then a guy got out of the car and came towards me asking me questions, I'd have been scared to death. If I had a gun, I might pull it out and aim it at the guy. Then I could stand MY ground. Hell, I wouldn't even pull over in my car at night if an unmarked police car with a siren on the dashboard tried to pull me over. Neighborhood Watch = License to Harrass?? What a tragedy.

seriously, if a guy was following me in a car as I was walking home from the 7-11 after buying Skittles, in the middle of the night and then he got out of his car and approached me, I too would take out my gun and point it right at his heart and tell him to stay the **** away from me.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The sponsors of the bill have both some out and condemned Zimmermans actions and stated that his actions are not protected under Stand Your Ground.

thats good to hear...I read that since this law was passed, deaths due to self defense in Florida is up 200%...
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

There's also evidence that Zimmerman chased him down and initiated the confrontation.

good. post those cites which evidence that actuality
i was aware that he approached the kid and asked him why he was in the neighborhood
and that the kid asked zimmerman why zimmerman was following him
i did not realize that there is actual evidence showing that zimmerman initiated the physical hostility which precipitated the shooting
i look forward to seeing your cites which will prove what you say to be true
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

UPDATE:

The 13 year old witness who heard someone crying out for help says he couldn't see how it started or who was screaming for help. He only knows the only person on the ground was George Zimmerman. A few seconds later came the shot. Police found Zimmerman with a bloody nose, blood on the back of his head, and grass on the back of his wet shirt.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - OrlandoSentinel.com

Zimmerman's father denies that it was Zimmerman who approached Martin. One shot was fired, a 9mm, after Zimmerman was on the ground and someone was screaming for help. It would seem - if the shot was close range - that Martin did not "walk away quickly" after nor was trying to get away - it would seem - after hitting and knocking Zimmerman down. No explanation given for also blood on the back of Zimmerman's head.

Zimmerman is Latino, not white. Both Zimmerman households have moved out of their house for death threats.

The police said they do not have enough evidence to make a summary arrest turning it over to the prosecutor's office. The Prosecutor's office has referred it to the Grand Jury to decide.

Air tight case? This is what the Defense will argue. Yes, Zimmerman maybe goes overboard trying to look out for the neighborhood, but at least he's not apathetic. He maybe went a bit overboard watching Martin, but became concerned when Martin first pulled up his hood on a hot evening to hide his face, then Martin turned to approach Zimmerman angrily glaring at him, then turn again and dashed off.

Zimmerman complied with the police dispatcher, telling him to go over to the mailboxes - we're not sure, but Martin had turned around demanding to know why Zimmerman was watching and following him. Both men approached each other. Martin asking Zimmerman explain why he was watching him and Zimmerman asking Martin, what was he doing there, noting Martin didn't live in the community.
Martin, a champion football player who lifts weights, became enraged, rushed Zimmerman slugging him in the face, knocking Zimmerman to the ground. Martin then did a field goal kick to Zimmerman's head. The gun, which Zimmerman had not displayed by anyone's claim to that point, had come out of his pocket or holster. A struggle started ovMartin over the gun. was too strong, fast and he too injured to keep Martin from successfully taking the gun and shooting Zimmerman with, given the raging violence Martin was inflicting on Zimmerman on the ground.
At this point, Zimmerman while under violent attack on the ground believed Martin was fighting for the gun to shoot Zimmerman with it, since Martin could have just instead left with Zimmerman on the ground. Martin instead grabbed at the gun, Zimmerman knew he couldn't hold Martin off, and fired one shot in self defense.
At any time, Martin could have easily just run to the house if he really felt endangered, and called the police. Martin could have taken his girlfriend's advice and run home, knowing overweight Zimmerman couldn't catch him. Martin could have just walked off after assaulting Zimmerman. But Martin didn't. The football star continued to assault Zimmerman during which Martin tried to get hold of the gun that became known only when Zimmerman hit the ground.
Why didn't Martin, having already beat up Zimmerman, just go home? If Zimmerman had wanted to shoot Martin as his goal, why didn't he just do so at the start?

Name any undisputable fact that contradicts that defense?

MURDER PROSECUTIONS are not easy. The only eye witness, a 13 year old, supports at least part of Zimmerman's claim. And that only Zimmerman was on the ground. Physical injuries to Zimmerman's head tells more. That includes what probably is Zimmerman's claim that Martin was beating and kicking the s...t out of Zimmerman - as I predicted pages ago on this threat the 17 year old football player could easily have done. And it is at least possible it was Zimmerman, not Martin, screaming for help. And it was Martin, not Zimmerman, who not only "stood his ground" but continued to hit/kick Zimmerman beyond necessity to protect himself. Zimmerman didn't stand his ground, he was on the ground being kicked.

Unless the PD is predominately Latino, calling them racist doesn't work. I can see why the police aren't really fond of this case, given they have to prove all that false, when that is what at least some of the evidence points to says its true, including the only living eye witness - an African American boy who openly has empathy for Martin, the injuries to Zimmerman and, maybe, they know it is Zimmerman who was screaming for help.
 
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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

good. post those cites which evidence that actuality
i was aware that he approached the kid and asked him why he was in the neighborhood
and that the kid asked zimmerman why zimmerman was following him
i did not realize that there is actual evidence showing that zimmerman initiated the physical hostility which precipitated the shooting
i look forward to seeing your cites which will prove what you say to be true

The evidence that Zimmerman chased him down has been provided many times during this thread. It starts with Zimmerman getting out of his car to pursue Martin by foot and is further substantiated by Martin himself telling the girl he was on the phone with that he was being chased by someone; and finally, being overheard by a witness as he asked Zimmerman why he was following him. I'd say there is more than ample evidence that Zimmerman chased Martin down.

The next mistake you make is drawing your own [erroneous] conclusion that Zimmerman would have had to throw the proverbial "first punch" in order to forfeit his 'free get out of jail' SYG card. That is not true. Martin could have swung first in self defense, that doesn't necessarily provide Zimmerman legal cover to blow that kid away because the kid punched him in the nose.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

i'll bet a jury sends him to jail. he's despicable.

I wish I could be as confident of that as you, liblady. Remember, this is Florida. And it just takes one person on the jury with the mindset of some of the posters on this forum.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The evidence that Zimmerman chased him down has been provided many times during this thread. It starts with Zimmerman getting out of his car to pursue Martin by foot and is further substantiated by Martin himself telling the girl he was on the phone with that he was being chased by someone; and finally, being overheard by a witness as he asked Zimmerman why he was following him. I'd say there is more than ample evidence that Zimmerman chased Martin down.

The next mistake you make is drawing your own [erroneous] conclusion that Zimmerman would have had to throw the proverbial "first punch" in order to forfeit his 'free get out of jail' SYG card. That is not true. Martin could have swung first in self defense, that doesn't necessarily provide Zimmerman legal cover to blow that kid away because the kid punched him in the nose.

Didn't you know that in Florida apparently the punishment for punching somebody in the nose is summary execution? If in fact any punch took place at all. What we have here are bunch of folks desperately searching for a reason to justify the murder of a 17 year old kid walking down the sidewalk armed with skittles and iced tea. They've invented this supposed punch, as though that makes the subsequent actions by the murderer justified.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

UPDATE:

The 13 year old witness who heard someone crying out for help says he couldn't see how it started or who was screaming for help. He only knows the only person on the ground was George Zimmerman. A few seconds later came the shot. Police found Zimmerman with a bloody nose, blood on the back of his head, and grass on the back of his wet shirt.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - OrlandoSentinel.com

Zimmerman's father denies that it was Zimmerman who approached Martin. One shot was fired, a 9mm, after Zimmerman was on the ground and someone was screaming for help. It would seem - if the shot was close range - that Martin did not "walk away quickly" after nor was trying to get away - it would seem - after hitting and knocking Zimmerman down. No explanation given for also blood on the back of Zimmerman's head.

Zimmerman is Latino, not white. Both Zimmerman households have moved out of their house for death threats.

The police said they do not have enough evidence to make a summary arrest turning it over to the prosecutor's office. The Prosecutor's office has referred it to the Grand Jury to decide.

Air tight case? This is what the Defense will argue. Yes, Zimmerman maybe goes overboard trying to look out for the neighborhood, but at least he's not apathetic. He maybe went a bit overboard watching Martin, but became concerned when Martin first pulled up his hood on a hot evening to hide his face, then Martin turned to approach Zimmerman angrily glaring at him, then turn again and dashed off.

Zimmerman complied with the police dispatcher, telling him to go over to the mailboxes - we're not sure, but Martin had turned around demanding to know why Zimmerman was watching and following him. Both men approached each other. Martin asking Zimmerman explain why he was watching him and Zimmerman asking Martin, what was he doing there, noting Martin didn't live in the community.
Martin, a champion football player who lifts weights, became enraged, rushed Zimmerman slugging him in the face, knocking Zimmerman to the ground. Martin then did a field goal kick to Zimmerman's head. The gun, which Zimmerman had not displayed by anyone's claim to that point, had come out of his pocket or holster. A struggle started ovMartin over the gun. was too strong, fast and he too injured to keep Martin from successfully taking the gun and shooting Zimmerman with, given the raging violence Martin was inflicting on Zimmerman on the ground.
At this point, Zimmerman while under violent attack on the ground believed Martin was fighting for the gun to shoot Zimmerman with it, since Martin could have just instead left with Zimmerman on the ground. Martin instead grabbed at the gun, Zimmerman knew he couldn't hold Martin off, and fired one shot in self defense.
At any time, Martin could have easily just run to the house if he really felt endangered, and called the police. Martin could have taken his girlfriend's advice and run home, knowing overweight Zimmerman couldn't catch him. Martin could have just walked off after assaulting Zimmerman. But Martin didn't. The football star continued to assault Zimmerman during which Martin tried to get hold of the gun that became known only when Zimmerman hit the ground.
Why didn't Martin, having already beat up Zimmerman, just go home? If Zimmerman had wanted to shoot Martin as his goal, why didn't he just do so at the start?

Name any undisputable fact that contradicts that defense?

MURDER PROSECUTIONS are not easy. The only eye witness, a 13 year old, supports at least part of Zimmerman's claim. And that only Zimmerman was on the ground. Physical injuries to Zimmerman's head tells more. That includes what probably is Zimmerman's claim that Martin was beating and kicking the s...t out of Zimmerman - as I predicted pages ago on this threat the 17 year old football player could easily have done. And it is at least possible it was Zimmerman, not Martin, screaming for help. And it was Martin, not Zimmerman, who not only "stood his ground" but continued to hit/kick Zimmerman beyond necessity to protect himself. Zimmerman didn't stand his ground, he was on the ground being kicked.

Unless the PD is predominately Latino, calling them racist doesn't work. I can see why the police aren't really fond of this case, given they have to prove all that false, when that is what at least some of the evidence points to says its true, including the only living eye witness - an African American boy who openly has empathy for Martin, the injuries to Zimmerman and, maybe, they know it is Zimmerman who was screaming for help.
If you wouldn't mind, please provide a link to the details of the fight, particularly, the part where Martin used Zimmerman's head like a place kicker.

Thanks.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

UPDATE:

The 13 year old witness who heard someone crying out for help says he couldn't see how it started or who was screaming for help. He only knows the only person on the ground was George Zimmerman. A few seconds later came the shot. Police found Zimmerman with a bloody nose, blood on the back of his head, and grass on the back of his wet shirt.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - OrlandoSentinel.com

Zimmerman's father denies that it was Zimmerman who approached Martin. One shot was fired, a 9mm, after Zimmerman was on the ground and someone was screaming for help. It would seem - if the shot was close range - that Martin did not "walk away quickly" after nor was trying to get away - it would seem - after hitting and knocking Zimmerman down. No explanation given for also blood on the back of Zimmerman's head.

Zimmerman is Latino, not white. Both Zimmerman households have moved out of their house for death threats.

The police said they do not have enough evidence to make a summary arrest turning it over to the prosecutor's office. The Prosecutor's office has referred it to the Grand Jury to decide.

Air tight case? This is what the Defense will argue. Yes, Zimmerman maybe goes overboard trying to look out for the neighborhood, but at least he's not apathetic. He maybe went a bit overboard watching Martin, but became concerned when Martin first pulled up his hood on a hot evening to hide his face, then Martin turned to approach Zimmerman angrily glaring at him, then turn again and dashed off.

Zimmerman complied with the police dispatcher, telling him to go over to the mailboxes - we're not sure, but Martin had turned around demanding to know why Zimmerman was watching and following him. Both men approached each other. Martin asking Zimmerman explain why he was watching him and Zimmerman asking Martin, what was he doing there, noting Martin didn't live in the community.
Martin, a champion football player who lifts weights, became enraged, rushed Zimmerman slugging him in the face, knocking Zimmerman to the ground. Martin then did a field goal kick to Zimmerman's head. The gun, which Zimmerman had not displayed by anyone's claim to that point, had come out of his pocket or holster. A struggle started ovMartin over the gun. was too strong, fast and he too injured to keep Martin from successfully taking the gun and shooting Zimmerman with, given the raging violence Martin was inflicting on Zimmerman on the ground.
At this point, Zimmerman while under violent attack on the ground believed Martin was fighting for the gun to shoot Zimmerman with it, since Martin could have just instead left with Zimmerman on the ground. Martin instead grabbed at the gun, Zimmerman knew he couldn't hold Martin off, and fired one shot in self defense.
At any time, Martin could have easily just run to the house if he really felt endangered, and called the police. Martin could have taken his girlfriend's advice and run home, knowing overweight Zimmerman couldn't catch him. Martin could have just walked off after assaulting Zimmerman. But Martin didn't. The football star continued to assault Zimmerman during which Martin tried to get hold of the gun that became known only when Zimmerman hit the ground.
Why didn't Martin, having already beat up Zimmerman, just go home? If Zimmerman had wanted to shoot Martin as his goal, why didn't he just do so at the start?

Name any undisputable fact that contradicts that defense?

MURDER PROSECUTIONS are not easy. The only eye witness, a 13 year old, supports at least part of Zimmerman's claim. And that only Zimmerman was on the ground. Physical injuries to Zimmerman's head tells more. That includes what probably is Zimmerman's claim that Martin was beating and kicking the s...t out of Zimmerman - as I predicted pages ago on this threat the 17 year old football player could easily have done. And it is at least possible it was Zimmerman, not Martin, screaming for help. And it was Martin, not Zimmerman, who not only "stood his ground" but continued to hit/kick Zimmerman beyond necessity to protect himself. Zimmerman didn't stand his ground, he was on the ground being kicked.

Unless the PD is predominately Latino, calling them racist doesn't work. I can see why the police aren't really fond of this case, given they have to prove all that false, when that is what at least some of the evidence points to says its true, including the only living eye witness - an African American boy who openly has empathy for Martin, the injuries to Zimmerman and, maybe, they know it is Zimmerman who was screaming for help.

It would appear the issue is becoming - at least from Defense view - is if someone with a Neighborhood Watch rudely watched you, follows you slowly with in his car, then asked you "what are you doing?" after getting out of his car, to you have a legal right to rush that person slugging the person to the ground, kick the person in the head, and if a gun falls out of his pocket you can shoot the neighbor watch person with his own gun - because his following you and challenging you was rude to you?

IF that is what facts support, the police were correct to not summarily arrest Zimmerman, then hold him in jail for a year knowing a guilty verdict all but impossible, only hoping along the way he'd plea out to a short time served manslaughter charge just to get himself out of jail or being intimidated into doing so. If facts even just allow the Defense to assert the Prosecutor can not prove that absolutely didn't happen, under Florida law there is no manslaughter or murder case.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

UPDATE:

The 13 year old witness who heard someone crying out for help says he couldn't see how it started or who was screaming for help. He only knows the only person on the ground was George Zimmerman. A few seconds later came the shot. Police found Zimmerman with a bloody nose, blood on the back of his head, and grass on the back of his wet shirt.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - OrlandoSentinel.com

Zimmerman's father denies that it was Zimmerman who approached Martin. One shot was fired, a 9mm, after Zimmerman was on the ground and someone was screaming for help. It would seem - if the shot was close range - that Martin did not "walk away quickly" after nor was trying to get away - it would seem - after hitting and knocking Zimmerman down. No explanation given for also blood on the back of Zimmerman's head.

Zimmerman is Latino, not white. Both Zimmerman households have moved out of their house for death threats.

The police said they do not have enough evidence to make a summary arrest turning it over to the prosecutor's office. The Prosecutor's office has referred it to the Grand Jury to decide.

Air tight case? This is what the Defense will argue. Yes, Zimmerman maybe goes overboard trying to look out for the neighborhood, but at least he's not apathetic. He maybe went a bit overboard watching Martin, but became concerned when Martin first pulled up his hood on a hot evening to hide his face, then Martin turned to approach Zimmerman angrily glaring at him, then turn again and dashed off.

Zimmerman complied with the police dispatcher, telling him to go over to the mailboxes - we're not sure, but Martin had turned around demanding to know why Zimmerman was watching and following him. Both men approached each other. Martin asking Zimmerman explain why he was watching him and Zimmerman asking Martin, what was he doing there, noting Martin didn't live in the community.
Martin, a champion football player who lifts weights, became enraged, rushed Zimmerman slugging him in the face, knocking Zimmerman to the ground. Martin then did a field goal kick to Zimmerman's head. The gun, which Zimmerman had not displayed by anyone's claim to that point, had come out of his pocket or holster. A struggle started ovMartin over the gun. was too strong, fast and he too injured to keep Martin from successfully taking the gun and shooting Zimmerman with, given the raging violence Martin was inflicting on Zimmerman on the ground.
At this point, Zimmerman while under violent attack on the ground believed Martin was fighting for the gun to shoot Zimmerman with it, since Martin could have just instead left with Zimmerman on the ground. Martin instead grabbed at the gun, Zimmerman knew he couldn't hold Martin off, and fired one shot in self defense.
At any time, Martin could have easily just run to the house if he really felt endangered, and called the police. Martin could have taken his girlfriend's advice and run home, knowing overweight Zimmerman couldn't catch him. Martin could have just walked off after assaulting Zimmerman. But Martin didn't. The football star continued to assault Zimmerman during which Martin tried to get hold of the gun that became known only when Zimmerman hit the ground.
Why didn't Martin, having already beat up Zimmerman, just go home? If Zimmerman had wanted to shoot Martin as his goal, why didn't he just do so at the start?

Name any undisputable fact that contradicts that defense?

MURDER PROSECUTIONS are not easy. The only eye witness, a 13 year old, supports at least part of Zimmerman's claim. And that only Zimmerman was on the ground. Physical injuries to Zimmerman's head tells more. That includes what probably is Zimmerman's claim that Martin was beating and kicking the s...t out of Zimmerman - as I predicted pages ago on this threat the 17 year old football player could easily have done. And it is at least possible it was Zimmerman, not Martin, screaming for help. And it was Martin, not Zimmerman, who not only "stood his ground" but continued to hit/kick Zimmerman beyond necessity to protect himself. Zimmerman didn't stand his ground, he was on the ground being kicked.

Unless the PD is predominately Latino, calling them racist doesn't work. I can see why the police aren't really fond of this case, given they have to prove all that false, when that is what at least some of the evidence points to says its true, including the only living eye witness - an African American boy who openly has empathy for Martin, the injuries to Zimmerman and, maybe, they know it is Zimmerman who was screaming for help.

All of that, if true, is moot.

Zimmerman was told by police to stay put. He did not.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

UPDATE:

Zimmerman's father denies that it was Zimmerman who approached Martin.
Too bad his opinion contradicts Zimmerman's story and the story of the girlfriend on the phone.

The rest of your post is pretty much you blaming Martin for being murdered, so...

Unless the PD is predominately Latino, calling them racist doesn't work.
Also, anybody can be a racist.

Question: If someone follows you, approaches you to rob you, you push them, both of you get in a fight where the robber falls and then the robber shoots you dead, does he get to go free?
 
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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

It would appear the issue is becoming - at least from Defense view - is if someone with a Neighborhood Watch rudely watched you, follows you slowly with in his car, then asked you "what are you doing?" after getting out of his car, to you have a legal right to rush that person slugging the person to the ground, kick the person in the head, and if a gun falls out of his pocket you can shoot the neighbor watch person with his own gun - because his following you and challenging you was rude to you?

IF that is what facts support, the police were correct to not summarily arrest Zimmerman, then hold him in jail for a year knowing a guilty verdict all but impossible, only hoping along the way he'd plea out to a short time served manslaughter charge just to get himself out of jail or being intimidated into doing so. If facts even just allow the Defense to assert the Prosecutor can not prove that absolutely didn't happen, under Florida law there is no manslaughter or murder case.
So...are you George Zimmerman?
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Here is an excellent link from PBS. It contains all the latest details and the actual audio from both Zimmerman and Martin's phone calls.
Killing of Fla. Teen Sheds Light on State's 'Stand Your Ground' Law | PBS NewsHour | March 19, 2012 | PBS

I am curious how Zimmerman arrived at the conclusion that Martin looked like he was "on drugs"? I think there is enough here to warrant at least a thorough investigation. Zimmerman has a history of "going after" people he thinks are up to no good, did it once in a grocery store according to his police records. It is also worth noting that Zimmerman is described as a "neighborhood watch" member, but he was the only member, a self appointed neighborhood watch of one.
 
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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

So the short version of this story in review:

A 17 year-old is walking in a neighborhood in the early evening with candy, Iced Tea, and a cell phone. He is on his way back from the store to watch a basketball game on TV with his father. Before getting back to his father, he is stalked by the retarded wanna-be super hero Zimmerman. Zimmerman, over compensating for small genitalia, wants to pick a fight with this kid, but the kid defends himself and fights back. Zimmerman gets mad that anyone would stand up to him, so he shots the kid with a cheap Kel-Tec 9mm handgun then wrongly claims self-defense.

Is this about right?
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

So the short version of this story in review:

A 17 year-old is walking in a neighborhood in the early evening with candy, Iced Tea, and a cell phone. He is on his way back from the store to watch a basketball game on TV with his father. Before getting back to his father, he is stalked by the retarded wanna-be super hero Zimmerman. Zimmerman, over compensating for small genitalia, wants to pick a fight with this kid, but the kid defends himself and fights back. Zimmerman gets mad that anyone would stand up to him, so he shots the kid with a cheap Kel-Tec 9mm handgun then wrongly claims self-defense.

Is this about right?
Yes and now he a free man who is a threat to every teenager (who looks black probably) walking home with a hood on in that neighborhood.

Even if he isn't guilty of intending to kill Martin initially, he is a threat to community and he needs legal consequences for his behavior.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

So the short version of this story in review:

A 17 year-old is walking in a neighborhood in the early evening with candy, Iced Tea, and a cell phone. He is on his way back from the store to watch a basketball game on TV with his father. Before getting back to his father, he is stalked by the retarded wanna-be super hero Zimmerman. Zimmerman, over compensating for small genitalia, wants to pick a fight with this kid, but the kid defends himself and fights back. Zimmerman gets mad that anyone would stand up to him, so he shots the kid with a cheap Kel-Tec 9mm handgun then wrongly claims self-defense.

Is this about right?

Nailed it on the first try.
 
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