Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

[mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Not hard at all to prove that Zimmerman initiation the confrontation (not necessarily physically) given Trayvon was a stone's throw away from his home while Zimmerman was following him, first by car, then by foot.

all the more reason to understand that Tray had every right to be where he was and that this "Neighborhood Watchman" was so incompetent that he didn't even know who lived in his neighborhood.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Not hard at all to prove that Zimmerman initiation the confrontation (not necessarily physically) given Trayvon was a stone's throw away from his home while Zimmerman was following him, first by car, then by foot.

but that is the point
there is nothing preventing zimmerman or you or me from going up to someone and asking them questions
zimmerman says he shot in self defense after being physically assaulted by the kid. he has the broken/bloody nose and scalp wound to show for it
now, what do you have which proves that was not the circumstance

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Zimmerman had as much right to be there as did Tray, what he didn't have a right to do is accost Tray or interrogate him. He was walking down the street, he had a right to do that, and did not need to justify his presence to Zimmerman. Zimmerman had no right to mess with him at all...even verbally.

I respectfully disagree. Zimmerman did not have the right to be there. I'm not saying he didn't have the right to be on common grounds of the property. I am saying under the act of being a neighborhood watchman, he did not have the right to follow, no less approach, Trayvon. And I am talking in terms of the Stand Your Ground law. The law is not intended to allow people to voluntarily put themselves into confrontational situations and then say their life was in jeopardy. And it's certainly not intended to grant people the excuse to resort to deadly force with a firearm against an unarmed law-abiding citizen. If it were, anyone who wanted to murder someone needs only to provoke that person into "throwing the first punch."

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

but that is the point
there is nothing preventing zimmerman or you or me from going up to someone and asking them questions
zimmerman says he shot in self defense after being physically assaulted by the kid. he has the broken/bloody nose and scalp wound to show for it
now, what do you have which proves that was not the circumstance

Its a well settled legal tenet that if Zimmerman provoked the boy and the boy retaliated with non lethal force Zimmerman cannot defend his use of lethal force.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Its a well settled legal tenet that if Zimmerman provoked the boy and the boy retaliated with non lethal force Zimmerman cannot defend his use of lethal force.

and in what was was the kid provoked?

 

[poweRob]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

but that is the point
there is nothing preventing zimmerman or you or me from going up to someone and asking them questions
zimmerman says he shot in self defense after being physically assaulted by the kid. he has the broken/bloody nose and scalp wound to show for it
now, what do you have which proves that was not the circumstance

A dead kid who was significantly smaller therefore not as likely to be the aggressor, feet from home who was the one being chased, 911 recordings, and lots of witnesses saying that it was the kid that was screaming. What exactly do you expect a tiny kid smothered by a much larger guy holding a gun to do? Lay down and wait to be shot or fight back?

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

and in what was was the kid provoked?

being prevented from walking forward, while being questioned by a non-LEO, is a provocation.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

A dead kid who was significantly smaller therefore not as likely to be the aggressor, feet from home who was the one being chased, 911 recordings, and lots of witnesses saying that it was the kid that was screaming. What exactly do you expect a tiny kid smothered by a much larger guy holding a gun to do? Lay down and wait to be shot or fight back?

IF zimmerman's story is accurate, the kid inflicted bodily damage and had him at a disadvantage
the younger person may have been much more agile, fit and (as a football player) inclined to physical contact
that he assaulted zimmerman as zimmerman has insisted is not an impossibility

 

[mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

but that is the point
there is nothing preventing zimmerman or you or me from going up to someone and asking them questions
zimmerman says he shot in self defense after being physically assaulted by the kid. he has the broken/bloody nose and scalp wound to show for it
now, what do you have which proves that was not the circumstance

There is nothing making the person you are asking-answer. And you do not have the right to attempt to coerce or threaten to get an answer.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

And with the witnesses and 911 calls piling up, it's not looking good for him.

Including the girl Trayvon was on the phone with as Zimmerman approached him.

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," the girl told ABC News. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run. Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for?' and the man said, 'What are you doing here?' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the headset just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."​

Complete opposite of Zimmerman's initial version of events where he claimed Martin jumped him from behind.

 

[poweRob]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

IF zimmerman's story is accurate, the kid inflicted bodily damage and had him at a disadvantage
the younger person may have been much more agile, fit and (as a football player) inclined to physical contact
that he assaulted zimmerman as zimmerman has insisted is not an impossibility

Well if only Treyvon could tell his story. Of course Zimmerman's story is he was a victim. He doesn't want to go to jail. He was a small kid near his house with a much larger and mature guy following him in a car carrying a gun. Everything so far is not looking good for the self appointed captain.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

There is nothing making the person you are asking-answer. And you do not have the right to attempt to coerce or threaten to get an answer.

and what evidence do you have that zimmerman threatened or coerced the kid

 

[mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I respectfully disagree. Zimmerman did not have the right to be there. I'm not saying he didn't have the right to be on common grounds of the property. I am saying under the act of being a neighborhood watchman, he did not have the right to follow, no less approach, Trayvon. And I am talking in terms of the Stand Your Ground law. The law is not intended to allow people to voluntarily put themselves into confrontational situations and then say their life was in jeopardy. And it's certainly not intended to grant people the excuse to resort to deadly force with a firearm against an unarmed law-abiding citizen. If it were, anyone who wanted to murder someone needs only to provoke that person into "throwing the first punch."

Yeah, but the problem is that there was apparently no organized neighborhood watch except in Zimmermans mind. So, he was basically just a vigilante with a gun roaming the streets looking for trouble. Unfortunately, as a private citizen, he had as much right to be there as did Tray. Again, though, he had not right or authority to accost Tray.

 

[mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

and what evidence do you have that zimmerman threatened or coerced the kid

Not the point. I'm addressing what you said. Just because you have a right to ask a question doesn't mean anyone had to give you a minute of their time.

 

[poweRob]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

and what evidence do you have that zimmerman threatened or coerced the kid

The sheik just posted that evidence last post of last page:

Including the girl Trayvon was on the phone with as Zimmerman approached him.

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," the girl told ABC News. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run. Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for?' and the man said, 'What are you doing here?' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the headset just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."​

Complete opposite of Zimmerman's initial version of events where he claimed Martin jumped him from behind.

 

[ric27]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

After reading about Zimmerman's actions, what jumps out is he was a crusader; on a warped mission, knows more than cops...

The gun is...or was the answer.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

IF zimmerman's story is accurate, the kid inflicted bodily damage and had him at a disadvantage
the younger person may have been much more agile, fit and (as a football player) inclined to physical contact
that he assaulted zimmerman as zimmerman has insisted is not an impossibility

ZImmerman clearly provoked it. I cannot go up and hassle someone and if they take a swing at me, shoot them down claiming they assaulted me.

The kid had done nothing illegal that justified this guy who apparently was looking for a scalp from hassling him.

 

[poweRob]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

After reading about Zimmerman's actions, what jumps out is he was a crusader; on a warped mission, knows more than cops...

The gun is...or was the answer.

He also was arrested before for assaulting a cop.

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

ZImmerman clearly provoked it. I cannot go up and hassle someone and if they take a swing at me, shoot them down claiming they assaulted me.

The kid had done nothing illegal that justified this guy who apparently was looking for a scalp from hassling him.

Nor had Zimmerman done anything "illegal." "Hassling" isn't a crime. I think I have now read 50 claimed illegalities that aren't illegal at all. Some people believe everyone is guilty and believe everything they don't like someone else doing is criminal.

I am not hearing hearsay by a lawyer of hearsay by his girl friend of what Martin said.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

but that is the point
there is nothing preventing zimmerman or you or me from going up to someone and asking them questions
zimmerman says he shot in self defense after being physically assaulted by the kid. he has the broken/bloody nose and scalp wound to show for it
now, what do you have which proves that was not the circumstance

And the kid has a bullet hole in him. Zimmerman's bloody nose and scalp only proves he was getting his ass kicked. But he had no right to resort to deadly force by acting as a neighborhood watchman but then breaking all of the relevant procedures which are in place to avoid exactly what occurred.

My wife joined a neighborhood watch once and received police training where the key point they drove home was that no one on neighborhood watch was to confront anyone they suspected of whatever it was they suspected them of. They were to be the "eyes and ears of the police" and that they were under no circumstance to confront a suspect. They were taught to call police and report what they saw -- that's it.

Zimmerman chose to be a vigilante instead and that resulted in the unnecessary death of a 17 year old who was unarmed and heading home from 7-11 with an iced tea and a bag of Skittles.

 

[mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Nor had Zimmerman done anything "illegal." "Hassling" isn't a crime. I think I have now read 50 claimed illegalities that aren't illegal at all. Some people believe everyone is guilty and believe everything they don't like someone else doing is criminal.

I am not hearing hearsay by a lawyer of hearsay by his girl friend of what Martin said.

Harassment is a crime.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

IF zimmerman's story is accurate, the kid inflicted bodily damage and had him at a disadvantage
the younger person may have been much more agile, fit and (as a football player) inclined to physical contact
that he assaulted zimmerman as zimmerman has insisted is not an impossibility

Zimmerman's story (that he was jumped from behind) is already inconsistant with the person on the phone with Trayvon who heard Zimmerman approach Trayvon and ask him what he was doing there. While she's not an eye witness and she could be lying about what she heard, Zimmerman too has reason to lie about the events that took place.

 

[ric27]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

He also was arrested before for assaulting a cop.

A recipe for failure...a watch captain/CJ major/pistol license and a collar for fighting with cops

The calling in and following someone based on....what?

The dispatcher told Zimmerman to stand down and let police take over, but didn't

Zimmernan was forcing an issue in which he was way, the **** off base.

 

[poweRob]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Nor had Zimmerman done anything "illegal." "Hassling" isn't a crime. I think I have now read 50 claimed illegalities that aren't illegal at all. Some people believe everyone is guilty and believe everything they don't like someone else doing is criminal.

I am not hearing hearsay by a lawyer of hearsay by his girl friend of what Martin said.

Two people. One is dead from a gun shot. One was the shooter. The gun didn't go off on accident. Therefore something illegal happened.

1) Shooter illegally killed the other
2) The other provoked the shooter and got killed

You've laid your lot in with choice 2. Either way, something illegal happened.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

ZImmerman clearly provoked it. I cannot go up and hassle someone and if they take a swing at me, shoot them down claiming they assaulted me.

what causes you to insist it is clear that zimmerman provoked the incident
are you telling us that zimmerman did not have the right to walk the same street as the kid
that it is not illegal to approach someone to ask a question - even a bold question
if the kid lost his composure and assaulted zimmerman, then zimmerman did have the right to defend himself against such physical aggression

The kid had done nothing illegal that justified this guy who apparently was looking for a scalp from hassling him.

how do you know this
he behaved in such a way as to cause zimmerman to be alarmed to the point to report that to the police via 911 call
it could have been a false alarm, but zimmerman would only learn that by monitoring his activities in a lawful way
nothing has been shown to prove zimmerman acted unlawfully