• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by


Not illegal, but it is an important part of the story. In my mind, he should be responsible for his own actions. If nothing else, he could have avoided any situation where he needed to "defend himself" by simply staying in the car.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

ThePlayDrive said:
Why would anyone have to "come up with something?" If you're in the right, the truth should be adequate.
Click to expand...
should ≠ is
 
Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman



It is murder-for-hire, clear and simple since Zimmerman is not a fugitive. If the Obama's Justice Department does not act this would be unthinkable.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Gie said:
Again, you don't know what "evidence" there is in the case, only what has been reported as facts and a lot of that is contradictory. The grand jury will have all the "evidence" in the matter and they won't be sharing it with the press.
Click to expand...

Of course. Not only do I agree, i've stated the same thing multiple times. However, we do know, as a fact, that Zim had a head wound and weighed 100 pounds more then Martin.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

TheNextEra said:
Yes, and in the capacity of NW, that is not illegal.
Click to expand...
Did not say it was. I've watched you make this same irrelevant argument about the legality of "following" people and being a NW for days now. The problem with your assertion is one of so what? You think that *point* will really be a viable defense that Zimmerman's lawyers are going to bother using in court? That tangential road to nowhere is hardly the issue being discussed here and sure won't be when the gran jury convenes. The killing of Martin will be the issue, not redundant information about whether Zimmerman was free to follow/stalk Martin before he murdered him.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

rocket88 said:
Not illegal, but it is an important part of the story. In my mind, he should be responsible for his own actions. If nothing else, he could have avoided any situation where he needed to "defend himself" by simply staying in the car.
Click to expand...


You're right in that it will be an important part of the story, however, you cannot lay claim to guilt by that action.

For instance, if I take a shortcut home and I get attacked by a gangbanger and I shoot him, you could then say if I didn't take the shortcut home I wouldn't have been attacked and had to kill him.

Yes, we are responsible for our own actions, but until right after he got out of his car, Zimmerman's actions were LEGAL. Legal being the important word there.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Excon said:
It is subjective isn't it?
How long do you think it takes a person who suffers through multiple traumas like he did to regain his wits and concoct a lie that fits the evidence, even that which is unknown to him?
Click to expand...
I have no idea. That's why I am not putting a limit on it saying that it was or was not enough time.

Those're all possible.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Gie said:
You think that *point* will really be a viable defense that Zimmerman's lawyers are going to bother using in court?
Click to expand...

Yes, I do, because I think the prosecution is going to try to lay that part out as a motive.
 
Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

AdamT said:
A little different, insofar as there was no intimidation or crime in the election case.
Click to expand...

If two dudes wearing bed sheets and hoods were standing outside a polling house, you would be cool with it? I'm quite sure it wouldn't have been, "different", in that scenario.



This, OTOH, seems like it should be a police matter. btw, the New Black Panther Party has no connection to the original Black Panthers. The NBPP is as racist as any white supremacist group.
Click to expand...

Actually, this is a bounty being offered for the kidnapping of a citizen. Kidnapping is a federal crime. This falls under the jurisdiction of the FBI. The FBI is a part of the Department of Justice. And, who is the head honcho of the DOJ?
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Gie said:
The killing of Martin will be the issue, not redundant information about whether Zimmerman was free to follow/stalk Martin before he murdered him.
Click to expand...

Again, he wasn't stalking, you keep using that word and it's not valid. He was following a suspicious person.

You have already said Zimmerman is guilty of murder without knowing what for sure happened after he got out of his car.

That is not, thankfully, how the justice system works.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

buck said:
Of course. Not only do I agree, i've stated the same thing multiple times. However, we do know, as a fact, that Zim had a head wound and weighed 100 pounds more then Martin.
Click to expand...
Yeah, after following Martin and then approaching Martin, he got into a fight with Martin. Then he shot Martin. Afterwards, Martin is dead and Zim has a broken nose and head wound. I'm pretty sure this will explain why he shot Martin come Zim's court day. IMO Zim got into a fight, started to lose it and pulled his gun because he did not want to take an ass kicking. Reminds me of a speech by John Witherspoon at the end of "Friday".
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

rocket88 said:
rather than just let the police play judge.
Click to expand...
The police didn't "play judge". They forwarded their investigation to teh DA who determined their was not enough to charge Zim with a crime.

Here's another piece of contradictory evidence. Not going to change anybody's mind, but here it is:
Click to expand...
While I can see that the first line may have confused you, that is not the least bit contradictory. One witness discussed what was happening prior to the shooting. The other witness indicated what she saw after Martin was already shot.
 
Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

This entire case has spiraled too far out of control. It is no longer about guilt vs innocence. It is not about truth. This case is now about race and only race. About a two weeks ago I started following this story. I was calling for more information, more of an investigation. It was pretty clear that all the facts were not known. I thought Zimmerman was guilty of something (still do) based on the information made public. My only hope was that a grand jury be convened and that all the facts were made clear. At this point none of that matters any more. Trayvon's family, the NBPP are using the tragic death of this young man to fuel their own racial hatred. They are exhibiting everything they are condemning in Zimmerman. Even if the justice department and a grand jury come back and state the Zimmerman acted in self defense and that he violated no laws, and even if they very thoroughly explain why, they will not be happy. They will continue to view this as a racial cover up. They have no interest in justice. They only want to promote hate.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by


Yes, I understand your conjecture. However, I find it highly unlikely that a 260 pound man is going to lose a fight to a 140 pound man (who allegedly has no history of fighting) in which the bigger man starts it.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Neither one of those things is actually evidence which bears on who started the fight imho

TheNextEra said:
You're right in that it will be an important part of the story, however, you cannot lay claim to guilt by that action.
Click to expand...
This is true
This is minding you own business. What Z did was to go mind M's business. If it can be shown that M had reason to fear Z or some other thing in one of those veins, the pursuit might make a difference.
I have read attorneys weighing in on both sides of the issue--most all of it "learned pontification" because there're too many facts missing.
But apparently, there're some conceivable scenarios where it could make a difference to the case, but not because of the legality or illegality of getting out of his car etc.
 
Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

This bounty is definitely a crime. The leaders, or at the bare minimum this spokesperson, should be charged with a crime for this.
 
Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

apdst said:
If two dudes wearing bed sheets and hoods were standing outside a polling house, you would be cool with it? I'm quite sure it wouldn't have been, "different", in that scenario.
Click to expand...

That's a horrible analogy. KKK garb clearly implies a racist agenda. The two NBPP guys were dressed like security guards.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Crosscheck said:
A very serious situation? A kid walking down the street is a serious situation?

Life must be hard for you.
Click to expand...

Listen and you might learn something from this thread, ok?

By the look on his face (eyes, hands, etc aka body language) at the initial interrogation

Many times at the scene of a crime ones experience, training and what you learn from your and others past mistakes will teach you a lot if you have the desire to learn from them. Most perps or victims will telegraph their thoughts and intents with subtle movements only seen by those who know what to look for. It's an ancient language called body language aka cop speak.

No magic, voodoo, ESP or bull**** 6th sense about it. Situational awareness lets you see it

Bad guys/victims act a certain way. Who's bull****ting and whos not
 
Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

If Obama had a son, he would look like a Black Panther.
 
Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman


According to your link, they have offfered a $10,000 reward for his capture. There is no law against that:

Members of the New Black Panther Party are offering a $10,000 reward for the "capture" of George Zimmerman, the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who shot Trayvon Martin.
Click to expand...

Also from your link:

New Black Panther leader Mikhail Muhammad announced the reward during a protest in Sanford Saturday. And when asked whether he was inciting violence, Muhammad replied defiantly: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."
Click to expand...

Free speech and all that...

Unless this:


Fighting words - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

buck said:
Yes, I understand your conjecture. However, I find it highly unlikely that a 260 pound man is going to lose a fight to a 140 pound man (who allegedly has no history of fighting) in which the bigger man starts it.
Click to expand...
Has anyone tracked down where Z's weight comes from?

I don't see it in the police report.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I've used the word "stalk" once, in my last post. But I am free to use the word because I actually understand what it means in English. Regardless if I use "stalk" or "followed" Zimmerman was doing both, but neither of those descriptors are what the crux of the matter here is.

Now let me share something with you.
Stalk | Define Stalk at Dictionary.com

Stalk:
verb (used with object)

5. to pursue (game, a person, etc.) stealthily.
6. to proceed through (an area) in search of prey or quarry: to stalk the woods for game.
7. to proceed or spread through in a steady or sinister manner: Disease stalked the land.

Which brings me back to what I said to you before and you tried to step around it with your "stalk" point, which is ignorant owing to English. I've watched you make this same irrelevant argument about the legality of "following" people and being a NW for days now. The problem with your assertion is one of so what? You think that *point* will really be a viable defense that Zimmerman's lawyers are going to bother using in court? That tangential road to nowhere is hardly the issue being discussed here and sure won't be when the gran jury convenes. The killing of Martin will be the issue, not redundant information about whether Zimmerman was free to follow/stalk Martin before he killed him.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.