• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Famed Navy SEAL pushes back after Trump amplifies baseless bin Laden conspiracy theory

truthatallcost said:
I've always found it bizarre that we captured Sheikh Khalid Mohammad (the guy who planned 9/11), and he's still alive, but we decided not to take OBL alive.
Several sources have stated that the dramatic gun battle in the master bedroom of the 3 story house OBL was in was just Pentagon propaganda, much like the Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman fairytales. It would have made more sense to bring OBL back to the USA, extract as much information as possible from him, and then put him on trial. No honest Dem will disagree with that idea I believe.
Click to expand...
joko104 said:
Bin Ladin was already dead. Obama has the body thrown in the ocean so his identity absolutely could never be confirmed.
Click to expand...

Cannot imagine why this party is tanking so hard. WHAT COULD IT BE.
 
a conspiracy kook who would be laughed off of a message board before being banned for perpetually violating the rules is president and has a direct effect on your life every single day. it's a scary thought even years later. it will never be normal.
 
pamak said:
Totally agree!

He senses that he has too many supporters who will swallow whatever BS he says. He has realized that since the time he told us that he can kill somebody in the middle of 5th Avenue and still not lose support.
Click to expand...

Apparently it takes a lot less for that to happen; at least outside of his base.
:)
 
Aunt Antifa said:
Cannot imagine why this party is tanking so hard. WHAT COULD IT BE.
Click to expand...

Not sure, but I have doubted Quasim Soleimani's death as well because I'm almost 100% positive he was the guy in front of a line at my local Whole Foods.
 
Helix said:
a conspiracy kook who would be laughed off of a message board before being banned for perpetually violating the rules is president and has a direct effect on your life every single day. it's a scary thought even years later. it will never be normal.
Click to expand...
And yet our own president gets the benefit of the doubt and not banned on social media like I would be if I did exactly the same thing.

I keep saying this but he's like a British governor in the continental United States where one set of rules apply to him and another set of rules apply to the rest of us.
 
truthatallcost said:
Close jred. The nyt.
The official narrative of the hunt for and killing of bin Laden at first seemed like a clear portrait, but in effect it was more like a composite sketch from multiple perspectives:
Click to expand...


This is not surprising at all. You had multiple people with different perspectives telling a story. Even people during the operation (the pilots vs the insertion team) are going to have a different perspective.


the Pentagon, the White House and the C.I.A. And when you studied that sketch a little more closely, not everything looked quite right. Almost immediately, the administration had to correct some of the most significant details of the raid. Bin Laden had not been ‘‘engaged in a firefight,’’ as the deputy national-security adviser, John Brennan, initially told reporters; he’d been unarmed. Nor had he used one of his wives as a human shield. The president and his senior advisers hadn’t been watching a ‘‘live feed’’ of the raid in the Situation Room; the operation had not been captured on helmet-cams. But there were also some more unsettling questions about how the whole story had been constructed. Schmidle acknowledged after his article was published that he had never actually spoken with any of the 23 SEALs. Some details of Bissonnette’s account of the raid contradicted those of another ex-SEAL, Robert O’Neill, who claimed in Esquire and on Fox News to have fired the fatal bullet. Public officials with security clearances told reporters that the torture scenes that were so realistically depicted in ‘‘Zero Dark Thirty’’ had not in fact played any role in helping us find bin Laden.
Click to expand...

Again, this is nothing surprising. Details of classified military operations are always going to be scarce.

For that matter, bin Laden was hardly ‘‘in hiding’’ at all; his compound in Abbottabad was actually a safe house, maintained by the Pakistani intelligence service (Saudis Arabia paid for the upkeep). When the United States confronted Pakistani intelligence officials with this information, Hersh wrote, they eventually acknowledged it was true and even conceded to provide a DNA sample to prove it.
Click to expand...

Pakistan's uselessness as an ally is a surprise to no one.

What was perhaps most shocking of all, though, was that this elaborate narrative was being unspooled not by some basement autodidact but by one of America’s greatest investigative reporters, the man who exposed the massacre of hundreds of Vietnamese civilians in the village of My Lai (1969), who revealed a clandestine C.I.A. program to spy on antiwar dissidents (1974) and who detailed the shocking story of the abuses at Abu Ghraib (2004). Could the bin Laden article be another major Hersh scoop?
Click to expand...

Not in the scale you're trying to claim it is.

You started off by stating
"I've always found it bizarre that we captured Sheikh Khalid Mohammad (the guy who planned 9/11), and he's still alive, but we decided not to take OBL alive. "
Click to expand...

There are various reasons for this

1. Sheikh Khalid Mohammad was captured by the ISI, most likely with support from the CIA, but not solely.

2. Capturing and putting OBL on trial (as would have been demanded by the American public) would have presented an unimaginable security risk, not to mention historically speaking putting such figures on trial has never been as straight forward as intended.

3. Given OBL's repeated statements on martyrdom, there is very little reason to believe he would allow himself to be taken alive.

4. This is actually a legitimate issue with the American obsession with "decapitation" strikes; the idea if that you kill the main guy the rest of the organization will falter. It's why the Bush Administration tried so hard to pretend like the Iraqi insurgency would dissolve after Saddam was captured, why the Obama Administration thought al Quaida would fade after OBL was killed, and why the Trump Administration insisted that killing Soleimani would cripple the IRGC.
 
CaughtInThe said:
And yet our own president gets the benefit of the doubt and not banned on social media like I would be if I did exactly the same thing.

I keep saying this but he's like a British governor in the continental United States where one set of rules apply to him and another set of rules apply to the rest of us.
Click to expand...

if Twitter is his primary form of internet mass communication, then i'm not going to give it very many more clicks than i give fox.
 
Helix said:
a conspiracy kook who would be laughed off of a message board before being banned for perpetually violating the rules is president and has a direct effect on your life every single day. it's a scary thought even years later. it will never be normal.
Click to expand...

2016 to 2020 will go down in history as the American Twilight zone years...
 
Somerville said:
Looks like Trump is going too far even for some supporters. The former SEAL voted for Trump and has not been a supporter of mask requirements - getting himself banned from Delta Airlines after refusing to wear a mask during a flight.


Why is Trump promoting these conspiracy nutters? Is it just another attack on a president who was far more popular than Trump? The man has enough serious issues to deal with as president and really should be focusing on those matters at this time.
Click to expand...


Strange. Article links to 4 different tweets but none of them to the tweet where "Trump amplifies baseless bin Laden conspiracy theory" Anyone have a link?
 
truthatallcost said:
I've always found it bizarre that we captured Sheikh Khalid Mohammad (the guy who planned 9/11), and he's still alive, but we decided not to take OBL alive.
Several sources have stated that the dramatic gun battle in the master bedroom of the 3 story house OBL was in was just Pentagon propaganda, much like the Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman fairytales. It would have made more sense to bring OBL back to the USA, extract as much information as possible from him, and then put him on trial. No honest Dem will disagree with that idea I believe.
Click to expand...

What useful information did he have by then? OBL hadn't been involved in operational planning for years by the time he was killed. They had to cut him out of the loop as part of trying to keep him secret.
 
truthatallcost said:
I've always found it bizarre that we captured Sheikh Khalid Mohammad (the guy who planned 9/11), and he's still alive, but we decided not to take OBL alive. Several sources have stated that the dramatic gun battle in the master bedroom of the 3 story house OBL was in was just Pentagon propaganda, much like the Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman fairytales. It would have made more sense to bring OBL back to the USA, extract as much information as possible from him, and then put him on trial. No honest Dem will disagree with that idea I believe.
Click to expand...

You just want to throw silly crap around like you have a clue what Osama Been Hiding was worth intl wise years after he went into hiding. He cut off ALL communications to avoid being hunted down. He was worthless as an intel source. Most of the key figures in 9/11 had been hunted down. He was just the most wanted mass murder with a price on his head. A trial had a strong possibility of enflaming extremist reactions. No he was executed. Cold, remorseless execution.

No honest American would disagree with that idea I believe... ✌
 
dixon01767 said:
Strange. Article links to 4 different tweets but none of them to the tweet where "Trump amplifies baseless bin Laden conspiracy theory" Anyone have a link?
Click to expand...



Trump trying to defend his retweet of the conspiracy theory.
 
Aunt Antifa said:
Cannot imagine why this party is tanking so hard. WHAT COULD IT BE.
Click to expand...
Well in your case, you can't find a single inaccurate statement in my post. You don't like the post because you don't know anything about the subject matter. Jredbaron is more knowledgeable about the subject than you, and the best he could do was to say that its completely normal for the Pentagon to release a fabricated version of events to the public, which sounded more like the plot of a dramatic propaganda film than real life.
 
Last edited:
Questerr said:
What useful information did he have by then? OBL hadn't been involved in operational planning for years by the time he was killed. They had to cut him out of the loop as part of trying to keep him secret.
Click to expand...

OBL was the most wanted man in the world. According to the Pentagon's narrative, OBL was responsible for the 1993 WTC Bombing -7 deaths
The USS Cole attack - 17 deaths
9/11-3000 deaths
But he didn't have any useful information? Maybe the truth is that OBL's ties to the Saudi government, coupled with the fact that the Saudi ambassador to the US helped to fund 9/11, are both subjects that the US government would rather not hash out in court. Doing so would necessarily place Bush and Cheney under suspicion once again, because they allowed the funder of 9/11 to remain in the country until he voluntarily left in 2005.
Or perhaps OBL'S lawyers might bring up the thousands of Israels that were suspected of spying on the USA, and were hastily deported, without a clear explanation of what their objectives were? We'll never know, because the government had the #1 terrorist in the world killed, and dumped out of a helicopter, somewhere. Good enough for me!
 
Jredbaron96 said:
This is not surprising at all. You had multiple people with different perspectives telling a story. Even people during the operation (the pilots vs the insertion team) are going to have a different perspective.




Again, this is nothing surprising. Details of classified military operations are always going to be scarce.



Pakistan's uselessness as an ally is a surprise to no one.



Not in the scale you're trying to claim it is.

You started off by stating

There are various reasons for this

1. Sheikh Khalid Mohammad was captured by the ISI, most likely with support from the CIA, but not solely.

2. Capturing and putting OBL on trial (as would have been demanded by the American public) would have presented an unimaginable security risk, not to mention historically speaking putting such figures on trial has never been as straight forward as intended.

3. Given OBL's repeated statements on martyrdom, there is very little reason to believe he would allow himself to be taken alive.

4. This is actually a legitimate issue with the American obsession with "decapitation" strikes; the idea if that you kill the main guy the rest of the organization will falter. It's why the Bush Administration tried so hard to pretend like the Iraqi insurgency would dissolve after Saddam was captured, why the Obama Administration thought al Quaida would fade after OBL was killed, and why the Trump Administration insisted that killing Soleimani would cripple the IRGC.
Click to expand...
No. The Pentagon once again fabricated a cheesy Hollywood storyline to substitute for the truth. They even went so far as to release the photo of Obama, Biden, Hillary Clinton, Brennan, and the top staff pretending to watch the raid on a livestream that didn't exist. The story of OBL's death was a crock of shit, not an honest mistake.
 
how would you like to be in the military during THIS president (who will trash you at the drop of a hat)?
 
When it is a Navy Seal's word against Trump's word ? One is a dedicated patriot and the other is a chronic liar.

I think in golf they call this a gimmie.
 
notquiteright said:
You just want to throw silly crap around like you have a clue what Osama Been Hiding was worth intl wise years after he went into hiding. He cut off ALL communications to avoid being hunted down. He was worthless as an intel source. Most of the key figures in 9/11 had been hunted down. He was just the most wanted mass murder with a price on his head. A trial had a strong possibility of enflaming extremist reactions. No he was executed. Cold, remorseless execution.

No honest American would disagree with that idea I believe... ✌
Click to expand...
Your post is just more of your subjective nonsense. You refuse to ascertain any reliable data that would cause you to have to reassess your understanding of events, motives, and the nature of the people we have governing us.
 
Crosscheck said:
When it is a Navy Seal's word against Trump's word ? One is a dedicated patriot and the other is a chronic liar.

I think in golf they call this a gimmie.
Click to expand...
Obama needed the boost to his campaign for reelection that Osama's death brought to him. That's why he green lighted OBL.
Bush exploited OBL and Al Qaeda to win in 2004, and Obama exploited his death to win in 2012. Bin Laden was more valuable alive to the Bush administration, because it enabled them to wage war against people who had nothing to do with AQ/OBL, and pass draconian laws like the Patriotic Act. By 2011, he was expendable, and Obama needed an accomplishment to make up for 2 lackluster years in the WH.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom