• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Factory Farming.

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,978
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It really seems to me that many people must just not realize the barbaric practices used to put meat on their tables.
Please read this and look at the pictures.
I can't imagine- if you actually read this- that continuing to eat factory-farmed meat and dairy products wouldn't cause some sort of cognitive dissonance in your brain.
If you don't want to read it or look at it, that's fine; but at least admit why you don't want to- because it's so monstrous that you would no longer be able to enjoy the diet you're accustomed to if you knew the specifics of it.

Farm Sanctuary | Watkins Glen, NY
 

spud_meister

Veni, vidi, dormivi!
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
36,123
Reaction score
21,523
Location
Didjabringabeeralong
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
i would gladly stop eating factory farmed animals, if free range food products weren't several dollars more expensive, and yes, i am a heartless cave man that cares more about been able to afford to pay my bills than a little piggy stuck in a cage.
 

spud_meister

Veni, vidi, dormivi!
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
36,123
Reaction score
21,523
Location
Didjabringabeeralong
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
You should read this too, while you're at it:

Cancer and the Vegetarian Diet
i read the first paragraph, then stopped taking it seriously

Cancer is not caused by bacteria, faulty diet, inadequate exercise, environmental contaminants, ionizing radiation, tobacco, viruses, nor heredity. Cancer is caused by a series of genetic mutations in DNA which may be either germline (inherited) or somatic (acquired during life). However, the chances of these mutations occurring in sufficient number to result in cancer is affected by all of the preceding factors.
 

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,978
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
i would gladly stop eating factory farmed animals, if free range food products weren't several dollars more expensive, and yes, i am a heartless cave man that cares more about been able to afford to pay my bills than a little piggy stuck in a cage.
Yes, I expect most of you to respond with sarcasm and snide jokes.
If you can't afford not to torture animals in order to get your meat fix, then quit eating meat.
You won't be smirking twenty years from now when they find a big juicy malignant tumor in your colon because a day doesn't go by that you're not toting around a bunch of decomposing cow and pig flesh in there: it's karmic.
Not that these animals mean to hurt you; they never would, if they had a choice.
 

spud_meister

Veni, vidi, dormivi!
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
36,123
Reaction score
21,523
Location
Didjabringabeeralong
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
Yes, I expect most of you to respond with sarcasm and snide jokes.
If you can't afford not to torture animals in order to get your meat fix, then quit eating meat.
You won't be smirking twenty years from now when they find a big juicy malignant tumor in your colon because a day doesn't go by that you're not toting around a bunch of decomposing cow and pig flesh in there: it's karmic.
Not that these animals mean to hurt you; they never would, if they had a choice.
i do think its horrible how animals are factory farmed, i agree that i needs to end, but i can't afford to eat free range products, nor can i afford all the vitamin supplements and extra food i would need to buy if i were to give up meat, and i like meat much more than soy proteins, and plus i'm sure rotting vegetable matter is much better for you than rotting meat :roll:
oh noes, colon cancer, believe me, i'm much more likely to die from a heart attack, complication from diabetes, stroke, and thats just hereditary, and if detected early, colon cancer has one of the highest survival rates of all cancers, so i'm more worried about skin cancer, living where i do.

and given a chance, a pig would love to eat me, being scavenging omnivores.
 
Last edited:

Wiseone

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
12,177
Reaction score
7,550
Location
Ft. Campbell, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I can't wait for the day when we do anyway with the animal all together and just grow chicken breasts, pork ribs, and beef steaks completely independently of an animal. And thats not sarcasm, I'm totally serious.
 

hiswoman

Traditional
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 19, 2009
Messages
3,051
Reaction score
1,486
Location
Cypress, TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative

Factory farming practices are barbaric. Do I feel bad for those animals? Yes. Like spud, can I afford to pay several times what I pay for factory farmed meat for the free range products? No. I do not believe it is wrong to eat animals for food, but I do long for the day when we treat all animals with the basic respect they deserve as sentient beings. This includes raising the animals we use for food in healthy conditions and slaughtering them in the most humane manner possible without causing them distress.


 

hiswoman

Traditional
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 19, 2009
Messages
3,051
Reaction score
1,486
Location
Cypress, TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
colon cancer has one of the highest survival rates of all cancers


Only if you get screened regularly so that it's caught before the benign polyps become malignant.

 

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,978
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Why is it so unthinkable to just quit eating meat?
We're dying of an excess of protein here.
We live in a society that suffers from an obscene overabundance of food.

These animals you're eating are killing you. They are poisoning you to death.
It's not their fault, they don't want to do it.
But such misery, agony, and torture cannot possibly produce anything wholesome or nourishing.
 

hiswoman

Traditional
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 19, 2009
Messages
3,051
Reaction score
1,486
Location
Cypress, TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative

I suppose some of the reason I continue eating meat is because I was raised eating it and it seems like a normal thing to do, but there is also the taste factor. It's good and I like it.


 

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon
Dungeon Master
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
30,822
Reaction score
34,059
Location
Somewhere in Babylon...
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I have to admit 1069 I have tried on multiple occasions to become a vegeterian but I just cannot do it. I am a dirty South African... and we ****ing love meat :) I don't know what it is, but every time I try to quit meat I go out and get a massive steak. Perhaps I should try harder, I love your post #12 and shall try harder next time.
 

Orion

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
8,083
Reaction score
3,918
Location
Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Although I sympathize with animal cruelty, there are much more persuasive reasons for why factory farming practices should be challenged, the main one being the biological threat to human health. The increases in deadly e. coli and salmonella outbreaks we are seeing in the news more and more are the result of an industry that is mindlessly continuing practices that have been proven to create antibiotic resistance. It is an industry so focused on mass production and profit that decontamination practices have not been updated according to modern research.

They still continue to use antibiotics as preventative medicine when an animal isn't even sick; they still continue to use chemical solvents as disinfectants which have been proven to create stronger super bugs; they still turn a blind eye to factory conditions, worker conditions, and are actively destroying the traditional agriculture practices which prevent these problems from occurring, all in the name of efficiency.
 

Orion

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
8,083
Reaction score
3,918
Location
Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I was a vegetarian from ages 14 to 23, and then I had to stop. The deficiencies I was suffering, despite all attempts to maintain a healthy diet, were destroying me. Maybe if I lived in a rural area it would be different, but I'm a urban guy and that means it's a lot harder.

I agree that humans are not meant eat meat, or at least at the levels we are seeing. Animal protein is meant to be a supplement and not a primary food source. Our closest relatives, the primates, all eat meat from time to time, including meat from cannibalism, but they eat it very rarely. Your liver can store essential B vitamins for up to just over a year before needing replenishment. That should give you an indication of how often we actually need meat.

Meat is an undeniable factor in the top three diseases in North America: stroke, heart disease, and cancer. It is undeniable. If you eat meat, your risk for these diseases is automatically much higher.

As for the actual fruits and vegetables... unless you are eating organic and local, you will become malnourished over time, and I don't care what vegetarians claim otherwise. The life force energy of fruits and vegetables that have traveled, even for a day or two within the same region, cannot be compared to the same produce that was just harvested. In order to fully benefit from fruits and veggies and all the micronutrients they contain, they need to be eaten soon after being picked, and I mean within a day or less. I don't think most people in urban areas can really benefit from this unless there are local initiatives to acquire organic produce in a timely way.
 

Orion

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
8,083
Reaction score
3,918
Location
Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I would like to say something about cancer.

Cancer is actually very simple in the way it works, despite all the media hype. The main cause of cancer is inflammation, and 95% of the time it is caused by lifestyle factors. Only a small percentage is caused by unusual phenomenon like radiation or pollution.

Your cells are a micro version of your body. They need nutrition, oxygen, and the ability to remove wastes. If they can do all of these things, then they will be healthy and reproduce normally.

If you decrease any of these factors, the cell can mutate and the new abnormal cell will continue to reproduce, forming growths. Genetic factors only determine how sensitive your cells are to these mutations. For instance, if you are genetically pre-disposed to cancer in your family, then your cells will need less negative stimulation to trigger mutation. Regardless, all people will have mutations eventually if the three factors are cut off.

Most people with cancer have a combination of the below:

They don't have adequate, well-rounded nutrition, so the cells become under nourished. When they are under nourished, they begin to behave abnormally because normal cell functions can't be carried out like energy metabolism and waste elimination.

They don't have adequate oxygen because of inadequate body circulation. Blood stagnates in various areas of the body due to lack of movement - in other words, exercise. Even if all you do is stretch routinely, this can make a big difference. Any pain in the body, regardless of where it is, is the result of inadequate blood supply and inflammation, and is abnormal. If you feel pain routinely even though you have never suffered an injury, the blood in the painful area is greatly reduced.

The third factor, the waste channels, is affected by the previous two. If you don't exercise, then wastes are not circulated away properly from the cell, to the extracellular fluid, and to the blood and lymph channels; if you don't get proper nutrition, then key ingredients used in breaking down or moving wastes will be lacking.

If you eat food that has a lot of artificial ingredients that don't exist in nature, they will block the waste channels and local inflammation will occur, even if nutrition and oxygen are present. The wastes build up, causing inflammation. Once inflammation happens, nutrition and oxygen become depleted in the area, and mutation occurs.

Artificial ingredients in food get stored in the body in excess amounts. If your body has the ability to break down artificial chemical A at a rate of 10 grams per day, and you consume 15 grams that day, then 5 of those grams will be stored in the body tissues. If you consume multiple artificial ingredients per day, the burden on the toxin channels becomes higher and the rate of breakdown weakens. If you want an example, look up aspartame. It, along with a lot of artificial sweeteners, have this fate. When your body stores these chemicals, its waste elimination channels become blocked and masses can form; its nutrition channels become less efficient; less oxygen gets delivered; a lot of people with obesity and especially morbid obesity have this problem. People who suffer from cysts in the body have them for this reason, especially cysts of the liver and the reproductive organs (like ovarian and uterine cysts). This is a primary factor for why infertility is increasing so rapidly in modern times in both men and women: because of toxic buildup and blood stasis.

One of the biggest lies about cancer I have heard and continue to hear is that there is no cure. The cure is actually very simple but it takes diligence to implement.

1) You must improve circulation in the diseased area to eliminate blood stagnation and stasis.

2) You must eat a diet rich in "super foods" that contain all of the necessary phyto-nutrients that were lacking in your body, which caused the mutation.

3) You must engage in some kind of movement.

Chemo therapy is always an option because it will make the body's environment more toxic and in turn reduce cancer growth, but if you are not engaged in the above three activities then you are not addressing the root of the problem.

We cured several cancer cases in the clinic I used to work at. Two of the patients were on chemo therapy, the other was not. If you address the lifestyle factors that contributed to the cancer, it can allow the body's systems to regain balance and finally cause apoptosis in the mutated cells.

With this knowledge, you can prevent cancer. You can be exposed to toxic environments (as long as they aren't radioactive, mind you) and your body's natural elimination channels will kill the affected cells before they have a chance to mutate.

Cancer is not pre-destined and you have control over whether or not you get it, unless of course you are one of the very slim minority that lives next to a source of radioactivity.
 
Last edited:

molten_dragon

Anti-Hypocrite
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,198
Reaction score
4,829
Location
Southeast Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
I tried to look at the little video tour thing in the OP link, but it was annoying as hell, so I gave up on it. However, I grew up in farm country, so I'm well aware of what conditions are like in most farms. I buy non-factory farmed meat when it's available and when it's comparably priced to factory farmed meat. I'm simply not willing to pay much more for it though, and becoming a vegetarian is out of the question.
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
106,945
Reaction score
50,852
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
I think this is a good morning for bacon and eggs.
 

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,978
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I would like to say something about cancer.

Cancer is actually very simple in the way it works, despite all the media hype. The main cause of cancer is inflammation, and 95% of the time it is caused by lifestyle factors. Only a small percentage is caused by unusual phenomenon like radiation or pollution.

Your cells are a micro version of your body. They need nutrition, oxygen, and the ability to remove wastes. If they can do all of these things, then they will be healthy and reproduce normally.

If you decrease any of these factors, the cell can mutate and the new abnormal cell will continue to reproduce, forming growths. Genetic factors only determine how sensitive your cells are to these mutations. For instance, if you are genetically pre-disposed to cancer in your family, then your cells will need less negative stimulation to trigger mutation. Regardless, all people will have mutations eventually if the three factors are cut off.

Most people with cancer have a combination of the below:

They don't have adequate, well-rounded nutrition, so the cells become under nourished. When they are under nourished, they begin to behave abnormally because normal cell functions can't be carried out like energy metabolism and waste elimination.

They don't have adequate oxygen because of inadequate body circulation. Blood stagnates in various areas of the body due to lack of movement - in other words, exercise. Even if all you do is stretch routinely, this can make a big difference. Any pain in the body, regardless of where it is, is the result of inadequate blood supply and inflammation, and is abnormal. If you feel pain routinely even though you have never suffered an injury, the blood in the painful area is greatly reduced.

The third factor, the waste channels, is affected by the previous two. If you don't exercise, then wastes are not circulated away properly from the cell, to the extracellular fluid, and to the blood and lymph channels; if you don't get proper nutrition, then key ingredients used in breaking down or moving wastes will be lacking.

If you eat food that has a lot of artificial ingredients that don't exist in nature, they will block the waste channels and local inflammation will occur, even if nutrition and oxygen are present. The wastes build up, causing inflammation. Once inflammation happens, nutrition and oxygen become depleted in the area, and mutation occurs.

Artificial ingredients in food get stored in the body in excess amounts. If your body has the ability to break down artificial chemical A at a rate of 10 grams per day, and you consume 15 grams that day, then 5 of those grams will be stored in the body tissues. If you consume multiple artificial ingredients per day, the burden on the toxin channels becomes higher and the rate of breakdown weakens. If you want an example, look up aspartame. It, along with a lot of artificial sweeteners, have this fate. When your body stores these chemicals, its waste elimination channels become blocked and masses can form; its nutrition channels become less efficient; less oxygen gets delivered; a lot of people with obesity and especially morbid obesity have this problem. People who suffer from cysts in the body have them for this reason, especially cysts of the liver and the reproductive organs (like ovarian and uterine cysts). This is a primary factor for why infertility is increasing so rapidly in modern times in both men and women: because of toxic buildup and blood stasis.

One of the biggest lies about cancer I have heard and continue to hear is that there is no cure. The cure is actually very simple but it takes diligence to implement.

1) You must improve circulation in the diseased area to eliminate blood stagnation and stasis.

2) You must eat a diet rich in "super foods" that contain all of the necessary phyto-nutrients that were lacking in your body, which caused the mutation.

3) You must engage in some kind of movement.

Chemo therapy is always an option because it will make the body's environment more toxic and in turn reduce cancer growth, but if you are not engaged in the above three activities then you are not addressing the root of the problem.

We cured several cancer cases in the clinic I used to work at. Two of the patients were on chemo therapy, the other was not. If you address the lifestyle factors that contributed to the cancer, it can allow the body's systems to regain balance and finally cause apoptosis in the mutated cells.

With this knowledge, you can prevent cancer. You can be exposed to toxic environments (as long as they aren't radioactive, mind you) and your body's natural elimination channels will kill the affected cells before they have a chance to mutate.

Cancer is not pre-destined and you have control over whether or not you get it, unless of course you are one of the very slim minority that lives next to a source of radioactivity.
Um. :wassat1:

I like you a lot, Orion.... but frankly, all of the above sounds about as credible as your assertion that you needed to eat meat for health reasons.
You know that you can perfectly easily fulfill your requirements for protein and iron with plant foods.
If you think leafy dark greens are ineffective because you live in the city and they aren't as fresh and nutrient-rich as they would be if you lived in the country, there are always nuts, legumes, and soy (not to mention, supplements that contain iron).


As for the rest of your statement about fruits and vegetables, I don't see how that would affect your ability not to eat meat.
I won't dispute it- we all know that fruits and vegetables, once picked, lose some of their nutrients over time- but I fail to see how eating meat solved this problem for you.
Perhaps you could expand on that.
 
Last edited:

Orion

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
8,083
Reaction score
3,918
Location
Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I like you a lot, Orion.... but frankly, all of the above sounds about as credible as your assertion that you needed to eat meat for health reasons.
Why?

You know that you can perfectly easily fulfill your requirements for protein and iron with plant foods.
If you think leafy dark greens are ineffective because you live in the city and they aren't as fresh and nutrient-rich as they would be if you lived in the country, there are always nuts, legumes, and soy (not to mention, supplements that contain iron).

As for the rest of your statement about fruits and vegetables, I don't see how that would affect your ability not to eat meat.
I won't dispute it- we all know that fruits and vegetables, once picked, lose some of their nutrients over time- but I fail to see how eating meat solved this problem for you.
Perhaps you could expand on that.
Because of my constitution I need high density, whole protein, and a lot of it, every day. Vegetable protein does not satisfy this, although I do also eat vegetable protein. When I started eating poultry again, and fish, a lot of the things that were going on with me recovered within a week or so.

I'm sorry but I don't agree that all people are meant to abstain from meat. Many people can and do, others can't so easily. The problem with vegetarian ideology is the same as with what meat eaters usually say, which is that one size fits all. Not all people are meant to eat meat just like not all people are meant to not eat it. It's up to each person to decide what is best for their own constitution, and frankly, if you are eating organic meat and in moderation, you won't have as many health problems.
 

Cochise

Active member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
276
Reaction score
80
Location
Chinle, Arizona
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Irrelevance of individual actions. One person stopping, or all the people here stopping, won't alter production patterns in the slightest because there won't be a sufficient demand shift, meaning that there won't be any signal to suppliers. Factory farming should be attacked from the supply end as a result.
 

Korimyr the Rat

Baby Eating Monster
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
19,553
Reaction score
15,756
Location
Cheyenne, WY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Animals are food. Factory farming is the most efficient means of producing that food. I'm concerned with the effects that hormone-enhanced meat has on our health and I am opposed to it for those reasons, but I don't support limiting our food supply out of concern that the animals we are raising for slaughter are suffering.
 

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,978
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Animals are food. Factory farming is the most efficient means of producing that food. I'm concerned with the effects that hormone-enhanced meat has on our health and I am opposed to it for those reasons, but I don't support limiting our food supply out of concern that the animals we are raising for slaughter are suffering.
Ending factory farming would actually increase our food supply; pound for pound, an acre of land can produce much more grain and plant-based food than animal-based food.
 
Top Bottom