Extradition of Julian Assange undermines freedom of speech

[truthatallcost]

Assange is guilty of 'espionage', yet a supposed ally country that receives billions of dollars from taxpayers can use American and British citizens to spy on people who pose no harm to them, and the cowards who want Assange's neck in a noose say nothing.

Israel is Actively Spying on Americans

An investigative documentary by Qatari broadcaster Al Jazeera scheduled for broadcast earlier this year was expected to cause a sensation. Its four 50-minute episodes centred on the young and personable James Anthony Kleinfeld, British, Jewish, an Oxford graduate who speaks six languages...

debatepolitics.com

 

[HonestJoe]

I will not bother answering you if you just ignore what I write.

Your post #114 wasn't even addressed to me and, as I said, isn't relevant to the point of mine you challenged. Even if your direct responses to me you're just scatter-gunning all sorts of different claims and assertions which have nothing to do with the point.

Again, I was addressing a specific statement that Assange is just a well-intentioned whistle-blower and explaining why I don't believe that is the case. That isn't automatically saying he is guilty and should be extradited, only that this particular defence presented on his behalf isn't valid.

The fundamental problem with this kind of discussion is that the extremists on both sides aren't willing or able to accept and acknowledge anything they perceive to be is anyway negative or difficult for their position. The truth is that Assange isn't perfect, Wikileaks isn't perfect, the US judicial system isn't perfect, the British judicial system isn't perfect... nobody and nothing is perfect so if your position relies on presenting anyone or anything as some kind of flawless hero, it is inevitably flawed by definition.

 

[Jean-s]

Your post #114 wasn't even addressed to me and, as I said, isn't relevant to the point of mine you challenged. Even if your direct responses to me you're just scatter-gunning all sorts of different claims and assertions which have nothing to do with the point.

Again, I was addressing a specific statement that Assange is just a well-intentioned whistle-blower and explaining why I don't believe that is the case. That isn't automatically saying he is guilty and should be extradited, only that this particular defence presented on his behalf isn't valid.

The fundamental problem with this kind of discussion is that the extremists on both sides aren't willing or able to accept and acknowledge anything they perceive to be is anyway negative or difficult for their position. The truth is that Assange isn't perfect, Wikileaks isn't perfect, the US judicial system isn't perfect, the British judicial system isn't perfect... nobody and nothing is perfect so if your position relies on presenting anyone or anything as some kind of flawless hero, it is inevitably flawed by definition.

When governments go after individuals it is a David and Goliath scenario.

 

[Ringo Stalin]

They are trying to charge him with the espionage act, which is a US law and he's not a US citizen.
They say the 1st amendment doesn't apply to foreigners.
Either it one way or the other, if the 1st doesn't apply, then neither does the espionage act.
It just goes to show the government can do whatever they want .

 

[Fledermaus]

Assange is guilty of 'espionage', yet a supposed ally country that receives billions of dollars from taxpayers can use American and British citizens to spy on people who pose no harm to them, and the cowards who want Assange's neck in a noose say nothing.

Jonathan Pollard

What happened to him?

 

[truthatallcost]

Jonathan Pollard

What happened to him?

Pollard represents the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Jewish/Israeli espionage against the United States of America. The Soviets got nuclear weapons because of a Jewish spy ring. The ADL has spied on Americans. They weren't punished. The State of Israel uses Americans to spy on other Americans. They're rewarded. The recent revelations that our CIA works out of Sheldon Adelsons properties, and works with his Israeli henchmen should come as no surprise.

 

[Fledermaus]

Pollard represents the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Jewish/Israeli espionage against the United States of America. The Soviets got nuclear weapons because of a Jewish spy ring. The ADL has spied on Americans. They weren't punished. The State of Israel uses Americans to spy on other Americans. They're rewarded. The recent revelations that our CIA works out of Sheldon Adelsons properties, and works with his Israeli henchmen should come as no surprise.

In other words they severely punished someone spying for the Israelis.

 

[truthatallcost]

In other words they severely punished someone spying for the Israelis.

RBG ruled that his sentence was unconstitutional.
The punishment for the crimes Pollard committed should be death, ala the Rosenbergs.

 

[bearpoker]

Hardly.

Sadly, Assange is not POTUS, so his narcissism can't reach the heights that Trump has. Given time, he may overcome this disadvantage.

 

[bearpoker]

Maligning whistle blowers is what governments do when war crimes are brought into the open. Lots of people think as their governments tell them.

Ecuador committed war crimes?

 

[Jean-s]

Ecuador committed war crimes?

I did not accuse Ecuador of committing war crimes.

 

[Evilroddy]

This should throw a great big wrench into the Assange extradition hearing but it didn't. Why?

Mainstream US reporters silent about being spied on by apparent CIA contractor that targeted Assange - The Grayzone

Despite being spied on and having their privacy invaded by the CIA linked UC Global firm that targeted Assange, journalists from major US news outlets have said nothing

thegrayzone.com

UC Global and the CIA were in cahoots spying on Assange and anyone who came to see him while he was holed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. Given that the country which wants him extradited also conspired to kidnap him and to poison him, extradition of Assange by the UK to America should be denied immediately.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Jean-s]

This should throw a great big wrench into the Assange extradition hearing but it didn't. Why?

Mainstream US reporters silent about being spied on by apparent CIA contractor that targeted Assange - The Grayzone

Despite being spied on and having their privacy invaded by the CIA linked UC Global firm that targeted Assange, journalists from major US news outlets have said nothing

thegrayzone.com

UC Global and the CIA were in cahoots spying on Assange and anyone who came to see him while he was holed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. Given that the country which wants him extradited also conspired to kidnap him and to poison him, extradition of Assange by the UK to America should be denied immediately.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

It should be but but wont because the English need to keep in the Trump administration's good books. You might suppose that the English judiciary works independently from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office but this is not so. Evidence of how wicked Julian Assange is will be presented in secret to a judge in London and he will decide to grant extradition. Following this, a better trade deal can be expected by the British now that they are all alone outside the European Union and in need of friends like the Americans.

 

[truthatallcost]

This should throw a great big wrench into the Assange extradition hearing but it didn't. Why?

Mainstream US reporters silent about being spied on by apparent CIA contractor that targeted Assange - The Grayzone

Despite being spied on and having their privacy invaded by the CIA linked UC Global firm that targeted Assange, journalists from major US news outlets have said nothing

thegrayzone.com

UC Global and the CIA were in cahoots spying on Assange and anyone who came to see him while he was holed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. Given that the country which wants him extradited also conspired to kidnap him and to poison him, extradition of Assange by the UK to America should be denied immediately.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Good luck with trying to get people interested in this. I started a thread about this subject, and got 0 replies.

 

[Tigerace117]

This should throw a great big wrench into the Assange extradition hearing but it didn't. Why?

[

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

The Gray Zone? What‘s next, you posting a Pravda article?

“Blumenthal has broadcast on RT (formerly known as Russia Today) on many occasions.[3] In an interview with Tucker Carlson on Fox News in November 2017, Blumenthal defended RT against "the charge that it’s Kremlin propaganda."[3][18] He has also contributed on multiple occasions to Sputnik radio, as well as to Iran's Press TV and China's CGTN.[19][20] Blumenthal founded The Grayzone website a month after his visit to Moscow.[15][2] In an October 2019 article for New Politics magazine, Gilbert Achcarwrote that Blumenthal's Grayzone, along with the World Socialist Web Site, has "the habit of demonizing all left-wing critics of Putin and the likes of Assad by describing them as 'agents of imperialism' or some equivalent".[21] The Grayzone and Blumenthal have rejected mainstream reports concerning the detention of a million Chinese Uyghurs in Xinjiang re-education camps.[22][23] "I don’t have reason to doubt that there’s something going in Xinjiang, that there could even be repression",[24] he told Afshin Rattansi on RT UK's Going Underground in July 2020, adding "we haven’t seen the evidence for these massive claims [of a million people detained]".[25]”

”Blumenthal asserted in October 2016 that the White Helmets were involved in a "false flag conspiracy" to claim an area had been targeted by the Syrian and Russian military. Charles Davis in an article for New Politics stated: "In fact, a White Helmet's member was among the first civilians to appear on camera at the scene of the attack, declaring in English that 'the regime helicopters targeted this place with four barrel [bombs]'."[3] In an article for Grayzone, Blumenthal defended the assault on Aleppo ("one of the greatest losses for the empire since the fall of Saigon") by Syrian and Russia forces in September 2016, which the United Nations (UN) concluded was a war crime. He called for a "war on terror" by the "deep state" against those forces opposing "Russia and Iran, and Syria as well, countries which have really no intention to attack the United States."[15]

Max Blumenthal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Gray Zone is not a credible source...which is probably the reason why it’s article didn’t “derail” anything.

 

[Jean-s]

Good luck with trying to get people interested in this. I started a thread about this subject, and got 0 replies.

Any enemy of the CIA is considered by the average American to be an enemy of the USA.

 

[Tigerace117]

Any enemy of the CIA is considered by the average American to be an enemy of the USA.

That’s because they generally are. Enemies of the CIA rarely, if ever, bother to differentiate between the two.

 

[Evilroddy]

The Gray Zone? What‘s next, you posting a Pravda article?

“Blumenthal has broadcast on RT (formerly known as Russia Today) on many occasions.[3] In an interview with Tucker Carlson on Fox News in November 2017, Blumenthal defended RT against "the charge that it’s Kremlin propaganda."[3][18] He has also contributed on multiple occasions to Sputnik radio, as well as to Iran's Press TV and China's CGTN.[19][20] Blumenthal founded The Grayzone website a month after his visit to Moscow.[15][2] In an October 2019 article for New Politics magazine, Gilbert Achcarwrote that Blumenthal's Grayzone, along

Max Blumenthal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Gray Zone is not a credible source...which is probably the reason why it’s article didn’t “derail” anything.

Quotation cropped for word count.

Tigerace117:

What Blumenthal is reporting is a matter of court record in both Spain, after CU Global's CEO David Morales was tried and convicted for a raft of charges, and from the Assange extradition hearing. The facts are established and are independent of Mr. Blumenthal's biases and agendas. If you don't like Blumenthal's spin then go to another source ... oh that's right, almost no other mainstream media covered the Spanish trial outside of Spain and the Assange hearing is likewise being largely ignored, with access denied to most press and about 40 international watchdog organisations who summarily had their video links cut by the hearing's presiding judge's order. When you are starved for alternative sources, then a Blumenthal will have to do. So as I said, every fact Blumenthal used for a foundation to his article is a part of the public record in Spain, the U.K. and other European jurisdictions. Ignore his spin and take note of the provable facts.

It might be interesting for Spain to demand the extradition of Sheldon Adelson and Mike Pompeo to be tried for real crimes alleged to have occurred against Spain and Ecuador as a counterpoint to the spurious charges and railroaded precedings surrounding the Assange extradition. Those extraditions would produce some very interesting trials indeed. If Spain has something a kin to the RICO laws of America, those prosecutions could become very interesting indeed. And why not spice things up with a few extraordinary renditions when America stonewalls on the legal extradition requests. Umm umm good, eh what?

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Tigerace117]

Quotation cropped for word count.

Tigerace117:

What Blumenthal is reporting is a matter of court record in both Spain, after CU Global's CEO David Morales was tried and convicted for a raft of charges, and from the Assange extradition hearing. The facts are established and are independent of Mr. Blumenthal's biases and agendas. If you don't like Blumenthal's spin then go to another source ... oh that's right, almost no other mainstream media covered the Spanish trial outside of Spain and the Assange hearing is likewise being largely ignored, with access denied to most press and about 40 international watchdog organisations who summarily had their video links cut by the hearing's presiding judge's order. When you are starved for alternative sources, then a Blumenthal will have to do. So as I said, every fact Blumenthal used for a foundation to his article is a part of the public record in Spain, the U.K. and other European jurisdictions. Ignore his spin and take note of the provable facts.

It might be interesting for Spain to demand the extradition of Sheldon Adelson and Mike Pompeo to be tried for real crimes alleged to have occurred against Spain and Ecuador as a counterpoint to the spurious charges and railroaded precedings surrounding the Assange extradition. Those extraditions would produce some very interesting trials indeed. If Spain has something a kin to the RICO laws of America, those prosecutions could become very interesting indeed. And why not spice things up with a few extraordinary renditions when America stonewalls on the legal extradition requests. Umm umm good, eh what?

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Again, by any objective standard Blumenthal is not a credible source. Would you have believed Volksicher Beobacter‘s “reporting“ on the German invasion of Poland? Pravda’s on the Great Purge? North Korea’s state media on South Korea? If all you have is the Gray Zone, then it’s clear that you don’t have anything.

Given that Assange deliberately exposed the identifies of Afghans working against the Taliban, you babbling about “real crimes” is pretty pathetic.

Lol good luck with that. It would be very awkward for the Spanish government to have to explain why a bunch of its operatives wound up captured or killed trying to kidnap an American politician to appease fans of a Russian aligned ”truth teller” who accused Ecuador of violating his rights because they made him clean up after his cat

 

[Evilroddy]

Again, by any objective standard Blumenthal is not a credible source. Would you have believed Volksicher Beobacter‘s “reporting“ on the German invasion of Poland? Pravda’s on the Great Purge? North Korea’s state media on South Korea? If all you have is the Gray Zone, then it’s clear that you don’t have anything.

Given that Assange deliberately exposed the identifies of Afghans working against the Taliban, you babbling about “real crimes” is pretty pathetic.

Lol good luck with that. It would be very awkward for the Spanish government to have to explain why a bunch of its operatives wound up captured or killed trying to kidnap an American politician to appease fans of a Russian aligned ”truth teller” who accused Ecuador of violating his rights because they made him clean up after his cat

Tigerace117:

Don't like Blumenthal, how about the Guardian:

US intelligence sources discussed poisoning Julian Assange, court told

Extradition hearing told spying operation at Ecuador embassy included plot to take baby’s nappy

www.theguardian.com

Regarding extraordinary rendition, use deniable contractors and do it in a third party country, just like the Americans do.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Jean-s]

Tigerace117:

Don't like Blumenthal, how about the Guardian:

US intelligence sources discussed poisoning Julian Assange, court told

Extradition hearing told spying operation at Ecuador embassy included plot to take baby’s nappy

www.theguardian.com

Regarding extraordinary rendition, use deniable contractors and do it in a third party country, just like the Americans do.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Americans do not know the half of what crimes are done covertly in their name by the CIA and the State Department. You couldn't sell a newspaper in America if you reported the facts.

 

[Fledermaus]

RBG ruled that his sentence was unconstitutional.
The punishment for the crimes Pollard committed should be death, ala the Rosenbergs.

And this negates his criminal sentencing how?

And since when could a single SCOTUS judge decide a case?

Wait....

IIts the super jew thing.... Isn't it?

 

[Tigerace117]

Tigerace117:

Don't like Blumenthal, how about the Guardian:

US intelligence sources discussed poisoning Julian Assange, court told

Extradition hearing told spying operation at Ecuador embassy included plot to take baby’s nappy

www.theguardian.com

Regarding extraordinary rendition, use deniable contractors and do it in a third party country, just like the Americans do.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Tigerace117:

Don't like Blumenthal, how about the Guardian:

US intelligence sources discussed poisoning Julian Assange, court told

Extradition hearing told spying operation at Ecuador embassy included plot to take baby’s nappy

www.theguardian.com

Regarding extraordinary rendition, use deniable contractors and do it in a third party country, just like the Americans do.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

So in other words we have anonymous reports from two people which amount to “he said, she said”, and no actual evidence that any actual harm was ever actually planned out against the Russian aligned “truth teller ”.

And none of which changes the fact that there was nothing inherently wrong with monitoring Assange in the first place.

You blithering about me not “liking“ Blumenthal, likewise, doesn’t change the fact that he is completely non-credible.

 

[truthatallcost]

And this negates his criminal sentencing how?

And since when could a single SCOTUS judge decide a case?

Wait....

IIts the super jew thing.... Isn't it?

Fled never met a traitor he didn't like. If you want to trade barbs I can do that all day. The fact remains that his sentence was recommended by Sec of Defense Casper Weinburger, who knew the full extent of Pollard's treason against the USA. You don't.

 

[truthatallcost]

Any enemy of the CIA is considered by the average American to be an enemy of the USA.

Reviewing the CIA's history, it's shocking how quickly they transitioned after the war, into an immoral enterprise that worked on the behalf of shady, if not reprehensible forces.