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Extradition of Julian Assange undermines freedom of speech

Jean-s

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What do that have to do with my metaphor? It is a really simple point; Do you understand and accept the difference between releasing specific information about alleged criminal behaviour and releasing vast tranches of data, most of which is entirely unrelated to any wrongdoing?
Editors decide what information is in the public interest such as war crimes.
 

joluoto

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Editors decide what information is in the public interest such as war crimes.
Wikileaks don't have an editor. They just dump swathes of information for anyone to see. Most of it just data about normal people.
 

Jean-s

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Yes, but that doesn't mean Wikileaks should make that easier for them (which they do). Just because Intelligence Agencies (and let's be honest, this is ALL Intelligence Agencies) gathers a horrifying amount of information about people (usually with the thelp of social media platforms) that Wikileaks has any rights to do the same. They can both be bad, you know.
Wikileaks does not gather information but relies on whistle blowers. Julian Assange has protected his sources.
 

joluoto

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Wikileaks does not gather information but relies on whistle blowers. Julian Assange has protected his sources.
Wikileaks just dump data on the internet. They basically have been caught several times of dumping personal information for anyone to see. Because they don't care. They don't go through the data and removes things like medical information or credit car details or just anything that can hur normal, innocent people. As I said, Wikileaks has no editors, they just dump large swathe of data and don't care who they hurt. And Intelligence Agencies love it. Makes their job easier.
 

Jean-s

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Wikileaks don't have an editor. They just dump swathes of information for anyone to see. Most of it just data about normal people.
Wikileaks just dump data on the internet. They basically have been caught several times of dumping personal information for anyone to see. Because they don't care. They don't go through the data and removes things like medical information or credit car details or just anything that can hur normal, innocent people. As I said, Wikileaks has no editors, they just dump large swathe of data and don't care who they hurt. And Intelligence Agencies love it. Makes their job easier.
Not for anyone to see in this case. Julian Assange provided the information to several respectable newspapers in democracies. The editors decided what was in the public interest to publish. It is called freedom of the press and autocratic and criminal governments are petrified of the public finding our their dirty secrets.
 

joluoto

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Not for anyone to see in this case. Julian Assange provided the information to several respectable newspapers in democracies. The editors decided what was in the public interest to publish. It is called freedom of the press and autocratic and criminal governments are petrified of the public finding our their dirty secrets.
No, everything Wikileaks get their hand of they just publish on their website. They had in this case given some journalists a sneak peak to the material, but they publish every document they get striaght to their website. Journalists of course pick the newsworthy stories and leave out the rest. But EVERYTHING is there. They have for example a leaked collection of internal Sony emails from 2006-2010. Sure there are definitely probably corruption to be uncovered there, but also loads of just emails between colleagues that has no business being public. The Iraq war logs are still up on their site with almost 400.000 reports, as well as the Afghan war logs with 90.000 documents. Among these documents are data about civilian contacts in Iraq and Afghanistan revealed and doxed. Their big AKP document leak that was supposed to reveal "the truth about the Gulen coup" had almost no information about Gulen (which is telling in itself that he was a scapegoat, but anyways) but instead their document dump included a datbase of female voters from several provinces, and also alot of random chat logs from different Turkish discussion boards. That document dump is still up on wikileaks.
 

HonestJoe

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Editors decide what information is in the public interest such as war crimes.
Wikileaks published the material on it's own website in addition to working with mainstream media to develop specific stories. The media editors are responsible for what they publish (and they were generally selective) and Wikileaks is responsible for what it publishes (and it was not).
 

Jean-s

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No, everything Wikileaks get their hand of they just publish on their website. They had in this case given some journalists a sneak peak to the material, but they publish every document they get striaght to their website. Journalists of course pick the newsworthy stories and leave out the rest. But EVERYTHING is there. They have for example a leaked collection of internal Sony emails from 2006-2010. Sure there are definitely probably corruption to be uncovered there, but also loads of just emails between colleagues that has no business being public. The Iraq war logs are still up on their site with almost 400.000 reports, as well as the Afghan war logs with 90.000 documents. Among these documents are data about civilian contacts in Iraq and Afghanistan revealed and doxed. Their big AKP document leak that was supposed to reveal "the truth about the Gulen coup" had almost no information about Gulen (which is telling in itself that he was a scapegoat, but anyways) but instead their document dump included a datbase of female voters from several provinces, and also alot of random chat logs from different Turkish discussion boards. That document dump is still up on wikileaks.
Good. The public need to be informed of war crimes, even those the American government wants to be hushed up.
 

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Rather, it is the American government's actions which make it a dead-easy target for criticism. Secrets will out.
Assange set out against the United States from his day one while he gave a free ride to Russia in particular and China too along with Iran.

Putin gave Assange a television talk show in Moscow broadcast nationally. The last show occurred only because Assange was fleeing Sweden.

It's Assange, Russia and you against the United States almost exclusively while you give Russia a free ride. Assange, Russia and You have no pretensions about it, you have only pretext.

All the evidence says you are anti-American and pro Russian. The body of this evidence is overwhelming and clear as you give Putin only the pleasures of ice cream cake and candles for his birthdays.
 

Jean-s

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Wikileaks published the material on it's own website in addition to working with mainstream media to develop specific stories. The media editors are responsible for what they publish (and they were generally selective) and Wikileaks is responsible for what it publishes (and it was not).
The English court need to release this man and shame on MI5 and the Foreign Office for their collusion with the American government. Originally arrested in England because the Swedish stooges issued a European arrest warrant in connection to have him sent to Sweden for something Assange was not even charged with relating to an investigation which has since been dropped. We all know the English judge has his orders not to upset the American government. The English public have allowed their citizens to be extradited to the USA because the CIA made a complaint for hacking while the American government routinely hacks into their own citizens online activity and emails. As for European arrest warrants, they have been used by the English to persecute perfectly innocent people such as the parents who took their child to Spain on their way to get medical help for him. It was embarrassing to see the Spanish police locking up a parent because an English court believed they had a right to withhold medical care in England. Thankfully, they have left the European Union and they will no longer be allowed to harass innocent people all over Europe. They want to put themselves in the Trump good books. You can tell the character of people by the company they keep.
 

Jean-s

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Assange set out against the United States from his day one while he gave a free ride to Russia in particular and China too along with Iran.

Putin gave Assange a television talk show in Moscow broadcast nationally. The last show occurred only because Assange was fleeing Sweden.

It's Assange, Russia and you against the United States almost exclusively while you give Russia a free ride. Assange, Russia and You have no pretensions about it, you have only pretext.

All the evidence says you are anti-American and pro Russian. The body of this evidence is overwhelming and clear as you give Putin only the pleasures of ice cream cake and candles for his birthdays.
You are the one fixated on Russia. I am writing about press freedom in democracies whose citizens need to be informed in order to hold their governments to account, including the Americans.
 

Tangmo

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The English court need to release this man and shame on MI5 and the Foreign Office for their collusion with the American government. Originally arrested in England because the Swedish stooges issued a European arrest warrant in connection to have him sent to Sweden for something Assange was not even charged with relating to an investigation which has since been dropped. We all know the English judge has his orders not to upset the American government. The English public have allowed their citizens to be extradited to the USA because the CIA made a complaint for hacking while the American government routinely hacks into their own citizens online activity and emails. As for European arrest warrants, they have been used by the English to persecute perfectly innocent people such as the parents who took their child to Spain on their way to get medical help for him. It was embarrassing to see the Spanish police locking up a parent because an English court believed they had a right to withhold medical care in England. Thankfully, they have left the European Union and they will no longer be allowed to harass innocent people all over Europe. They want to put themselves in the Trump good books. You can tell the character of people by the company they keep.
Nash wasn't the only people to produce a Rambler.
 

Tangmo

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You are the one fixated on Russia. I am writing about press freedom in democracies whose citizens need to be informed in order to hold their governments to account, including the Americans.
Assange, Putin and You are against the Untied States while you and your Mob shelter and ignore Russia and believe you can benefit by it when you cannot.
 

Jean-s

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Assange, Putin and You are against the Untied States while you and your Mob shelter and ignore Russia and believe you can benefit by it when you cannot.
Let the Russian people worry about Putin. Americans need to know what their government is up to. The American government want Assange because he embarrassed them. They are selective in whom they go after. "US authorities have never asked a WikiLeaks rival to take down unredacted cables that have been among those at the centre of the legal battle to send Julian Assange to the US, his extradition hearing has been told. The evidence was given by a veteran internet activist whose website, Cryptome, published more than 250,000 classified documents a day before WikiLeaks began placing them online."
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ptome-remove-leaked-cables-court-told-assange
 

joluoto

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Good. The public need to be informed of war crimes, even those the American government wants to be hushed up.
They could have just leaked it to the press instead of dumping it all on the Internet. 99% of those documents has NOTHING to do with war crimes and definitely shouldn't be open for anyone. An organization that dox people and has no regars for human rights are not worthy of praise.
 

Jean-s

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They could have just leaked it to the press instead of dumping it all on the Internet. 99% of those documents has NOTHING to do with war crimes and definitely shouldn't be open for anyone. An organization that dox people and has no regars for human rights are not worthy of praise.
Says you.
 

HonestJoe

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The English court need to...
OK. Do you have any comment on what we were actually discussing; the difference between someone publishing selected extracts directly related to alleged crimes and someone publishing an entire set of data regardless of what it contains? If Assange and Wikileaks had only done the former, I very much doubt he'd be in the position he now is.
 

Jean-s

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OK. Do you have any comment on what we were actually discussing; the difference between someone publishing selected extracts directly related to alleged crimes and someone publishing an entire set of data regardless of what it contains? If Assange and Wikileaks had only done the former, I very much doubt he'd be in the position he now is.
Julian Assange would not get a fair trial in America.
 

HonestJoe

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Julian Assange would not get a fair trial in America.
OK. Do you have any comment on what we were actually discussing; the difference between someone publishing selected extracts directly related to alleged crimes and someone publishing an entire set of data regardless of what it contains? If Assange and Wikileaks had only done the former, I very much doubt he'd be in the position he now is.
 

Jean-s

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OK. Do you have any comment on what we were actually discussing; the difference between someone publishing selected extracts directly related to alleged crimes and someone publishing an entire set of data regardless of what it contains? If Assange and Wikileaks had only done the former, I very much doubt he'd be in the position he now is.
Wikileaks is not a publisher but Le Monde is.
 

HonestJoe

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Wikileaks is not a publisher but Le Monde is.
Debatable but that's irrelevant. The fact remains that Wikileaks behaved very differently with the material than the media outlets, which is why they're being treated differently. Assange didn't only whistle-blow on alleged criminality, he sought out, obtained and released vast swathes of data that had nothing to do with any kind of criminal behaviour. That is one of the core reasons he is in the mess he currently finds himself.

That is the only point I was seeking to make. In all your evasion and distraction, to avoid admitted that Assange could have possibly done some bad things as well as good ones, you seem to have forgotten to point you initially challenged.
 

Jean-s

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Debatable but that's irrelevant. The fact remains that Wikileaks behaved very differently with the material than the media outlets, which is why they're being treated differently. Assange didn't only whistle-blow on alleged criminality, he sought out, obtained and released vast swathes of data that had nothing to do with any kind of criminal behaviour. That is one of the core reasons he is in the mess he currently finds himself.

That is the only point I was seeking to make. In all your evasion and distraction, to avoid admitted that Assange could have possibly done some bad things as well as good ones, you seem to have forgotten to point you initially challenged.
You neglected to read my post #114 above.
 

HonestJoe

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You neglected to read my post #114 above.
I saw it, I just ignored it because, like everything you've responded directly to me with, it's irrelevant to the actual point that you initially challenged me on. That other sources copied Wikileaks data doesn't remove Assange's responsibility for it being public in the first place and I doubt the US government tried to get anyone to take the data down since once it was out that would be pointless.

My point here remains this and this alone; There is a fundamental moral and legal difference between reporting selected extracts of data directly related to alleged criminal offenses and seeking out and releasing vast swathes of data regardless of what was in it or any consequences of it being in the public domain. Assange can't defend himself as a heroic whistle-blower out to reveal criminal acts because that is far from all that he did. End of point.
 

Jean-s

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I saw it, I just ignored it because, like everything you've responded directly to me with, it's irrelevant to the actual point that you initially challenged me on. That other sources copied Wikileaks data doesn't remove Assange's responsibility for it being public in the first place and I doubt the US government tried to get anyone to take the data down since once it was out that would be pointless.

My point here remains this and this alone; There is a fundamental moral and legal difference between reporting selected extracts of data directly related to alleged criminal offenses and seeking out and releasing vast swathes of data regardless of what was in it or any consequences of it being in the public domain. Assange can't defend himself as a heroic whistle-blower out to reveal criminal acts because that is far from all that he did. End of point.
I will not bother answering you if you just ignore what I write.
 

truthatallcost

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Wikileaks just dump data on the internet. They basically have been caught several times of dumping personal information for anyone to see. Because they don't care. They don't go through the data and removes things like medical information or credit car details or just anything that can hur normal, innocent people. As I said, Wikileaks has no editors, they just dump large swathe of data and don't care who they hurt. And Intelligence Agencies love it. Makes their job easier.
Assange must receive 175 years in prison, because medical information and credit card details were leaked. Something that routinely happens due to the lackadaisical security practices of American corporations, and no one is held accountable. I had my credit card information stolen in one of these breeches, and it occurred because the large bank my card was issued from failed to protect my private data. Nothing happened to them, no repercussions.
Assange scares the pants off of government and it's sycophants.
 
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