Expel Turkey from NATO, cancel EU application

joergan · Jun 17, 2010

Now that the Turkish leadership has opted to cater to the worst filth, the pro-terrorist islamist element of the voters, and side with the enemies of the West, namely Iran and Syria, it is time for the West to expel Turkey from NATO as a start.

Turkey no longer serves a legitimate function in the organization, as it has openly sided with the enemies in which the West is engage in a military conflict on the Afghanistan and Iraqi fronts. Since the treaty requires an alliance amongst like-minded nations, and Turkey has opted to choose the enemies of freedom and democracy, there is little reason for it to remain within the treaty.

At this point, it would certainly behoove the Turkish military to conduct yet another coup and remove the cancerous government of the AKP/Erdogan, and possibly place him on trial for violating the Turkish constitution calling for a separation of religion and state.

I would also believe it would be prudent for the EU to finalize its rejection of the Turkish application to the EU, along with the expulsion of Turkey from the WTO. The WTO rules require open trade procedures, which Turkey is violating with its boycotts and blockades of Armenia and Cyprus.

jallman · Jun 18, 2010

joergan said:
Now that the Turkish leadership has opted to cater to the worst filth, the pro-terrorist islamist element of the voters, and side with the enemies of the West, namely Iran and Syria, it is time for the West to expel Turkey from NATO as a start.

Turkey no longer serves a legitimate function in the organization, as it has openly sided with the enemies in which the West is engage in a military conflict on the Afghanistan and Iraqi fronts. Since the treaty requires an alliance amongst like-minded nations, and Turkey has opted to choose the enemies of freedom and democracy, there is little reason for it to remain within the treaty.

At this point, it would certainly behoove the Turkish military to conduct yet another coup and remove the cancerous government of the AKP/Erdogan, and possibly place him on trial for violating the Turkish constitution calling for a separation of religion and state.

I would also believe it would be prudent for the EU to finalize its rejection of the Turkish application to the EU, along with the expulsion of Turkey from the WTO. The WTO rules require open trade procedures, which Turkey is violating with its boycotts and blockades of Armenia and Cyprus.

Funny how it's ok for Israel to blockade Palestine in pursuit of "self defense" (HA!) but the minute Turkey does it, it's time to put them in time out.

The hypocrisy would be astounding except that it's expected from the OP and his ilk.

Simba · Jun 21, 2010

Turkey has always done our nations bidding, from the war in Korea, and beyond. Turkey has never attacked the United States of America. From it's inception, Turkey has been a faithful NATO member.

Besides, I like the Turks. They are great soldiers.

washunut · Jun 21, 2010

Perhaps Israel shold start sending " humanitarian" supplies to the Kurds.

Lord Tammerlain · Jun 21, 2010

washunut said:
Perhaps Israel shold start sending " humanitarian" supplies to the Kurds.

They most likely have been, and in all likelyhood Turkish soldiers have probably died because of it

In Northern Iraq there are three Iranian Kurdish groups that operate and that have compounds and do political organizing. Keep in mind that the Kurdish people of Iran face a great deal of oppression, they’re not allowed to learn in their own language in the schools. They face discrimination. They’re a great deal poorer than the rest of Iran. So the Kurdish people have very legitimate grievances against the government in Tehran. The U.S. has taken advantage of that.

In the case of one group, the P.K.K. or the Kurdistan Workers Party and they are along with Israel sponsoring them to carry out guerrilla raids inside Iran and its part of a much wider plan by the United States to foment discontent and actual terrorist activities by ethnic Iranians in various parts of Iran. And when I was in northern Iraq, I was able to determine that that kind of activity is going on from Iraqi soil under the Kurdish controlled areas of Iraq, into Iran.

Report: U.S. Sponsoring Kurdish Guerilla Attacks Inside Iran

Lord Tammerlain · Jun 21, 2010

Continuation

Mount Qandil: A Safe Haven for Kurdish Militants – Part 1 - The Jamestown Foundation

In recent months, Turkey has renewed its threats to enter Iraqi Kurdistan to attack the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK). Any Turkish attack would focus on the PKK's main base, or series of camps, in the foothills of Mount Qandil (or Kandeel), a 3,500 meter mountain that straddles the Iranian border some 100 kilometers from the Turkish frontier. In August, Mount Qandil was the subject of Iranian artillery attacks as Tehran targeted camps belonging to both the PKK and its Iranian counterpart, the Party for Freedom and Life in Kurdistan (PJAK) (for an in-depth portrait of PJAK, see Terrorism Monitor, June 15). Any attempt by Turkey and Iran to attack the Kurds in northern Iraq will likely involve operations on this strategic mountain.

cont

The PKK's decision to settle in Qandil may have been inspired by the actions of the Kurdish Islamic groups Komala and Jund al-Islam, which by the mid-1990s were starting to coalesce around Halabja where—with Iranian help—they gradually established a shifting zone of control in a dozen villages. Like Mount Qandil, these areas were also mountainous, inaccessible and nestled tightly against the porous Iranian border. The presence of these Kurdish Islamist camps (eventually ruled by Ansar al-Islam) meant that a rigid ideological separation developed among non-Iraqi Kurds; the religious went to Halabja and the secular moved to Qandil [2].

In summer 2003, the U.S. Army surrounded Mount Qandil and established checkpoints on the roads leading to the mountain [3]. The Coalition Provisional Authority refurbished small Saddam-era forts on some of the mountain's approach roads that are now manned by small PUK peshmerga detachments. These men do not interfere with the operations of the PKK or PJAK and their main aim appears to be to prevent non-Kurds from reaching the camps.

Numbers of Fighters and the Role of the Camp

According to their own estimates, the number of PKK fighters in Qandil is around 3,000 [4]. The Turkish government estimates that there are up to 5,000 PKK members in the whole of northern Iraq [5]. The constant migration of people from Qandil makes an exact figure impossible and there is some overlap between PJAK and PKK fighters. Many of the camp's long-term residents are Syrian Kurds who are unable to return to their homeland [6]. The quality of PKK recruits on Qandil compares unfavorably to those of PJAK, the PKK's more urbanized Iranian equivalent. While PJAK's members are young, motivated and highly educated, PKK members on Mount Qandil are largely older, less educated and often from very rural backgrounds.

Heck by the looks of it, Israel and the US have most likely assisted the PKK in killing Turkish soldiers by providing weaponry to terrorists

washunut · Jun 21, 2010

Lord Tammerlain said:
Continuation

Mount Qandil: A Safe Haven for Kurdish Militants – Part 1 - The Jamestown Foundation

Heck by the looks of it, Israel and the US have most likely assisted the PKK in killing Turkish soldiers by providing weaponry to terrorists

Sounds like a reasonable position for them to take.

Lord Tammerlain · Jun 21, 2010

washunut said:
Sounds like a reasonable position for them to take.

You mean supporting terrorists killing Turkish soldiers at least as far back as 2006?

Long before the current floatilla issue

washunut · Jun 21, 2010

Lord Tammerlain said:
You mean supporting terrorists killing Turkish soldiers at least as far back as 2006?

Long before the current floatilla issue

Yup. It was fine with the world community that the Turks sent those terrorists on their flotilla so whatever they get in return is fine by me.

Lord Tammerlain · Jun 21, 2010

washunut said:
Yup. It was fine with the world community that the Turks sent those terrorists on their flotilla so whatever they get in return is fine by me.

Can you not follow a time line?

Israel has most likely been supporting the PJAk, and by default the PKK from around 2004 or 2005, most likely resulting in the deaths of Turkish soldiers long before the Flotilla occured. That support would have been with actual weapons and training. As opposed to food and building supplies.

I do love the fact that in todays world trying to provide food makes you a terrorist. I knew the Red Cross was evil, I just never knew why untill now they are terrorists

washunut · Jun 22, 2010

Lord Tammerlain said:
Can you not follow a time line?

Israel has most likely been supporting the PJAk, and by default the PKK from around 2004 or 2005, most likely resulting in the deaths of Turkish soldiers long before the Flotilla occured. That support would have been with actual weapons and training. As opposed to food and building supplies.

I do love the fact that in todays world trying to provide food makes you a terrorist. I knew the Red Cross was evil, I just never knew why untill now they are terrorists

I understand the alleged timeline very well. If what you say is fact which I do not believe as Israel had close ties with Turkey. If what you say is true Obama would have been all over Israel and made it public.

As to trying to provide food, that is B.S. and I think you know that. You may even understand that the people the Turks loaded onto that ship were there for one reason, to provoke an incident. Israel fell into the trap.

So I could care less if Israel does it's best to help agitators bother Turkey a bit. What is good for the goose...

Lord Tammerlain · Jun 22, 2010

washunut said:
I understand the alleged timeline very well. If what you say is fact which I do not believe as Israel had close ties with Turkey. If what you say is true Obama would have been all over Israel and made it public.

As to trying to provide food, that is B.S. and I think you know that. You may even understand that the people the Turks loaded onto that ship were there for one reason, to provoke an incident. Israel fell into the trap.

So I could care less if Israel does it's best to help agitators bother Turkey a bit. What is good for the goose...

First off

Have you heard of PJAK? A Kurdish militant group that operates in Iraq and targets Iran. You do know who Iran is of course.

The US and Israel are suspected of working with PJAK to help PJAK hurt the Iranian government. PJAK just happens to share a area of operations in Iraq with the PKK (Link posted earlier). The PKK just in case you have been hiding under a rock is a Kurdish militant group that the US government lists as a terrorist group. The PKK of course fights against Turkey, and has caused the death of plenty of Turkish soldiers over the last few years

Turkey brought to attention a few years ago that US weapons were being found on PKK fighters (ie terrorists) that were killed or captured when fighting the Turkish military.

So when you say what is good for the goose, generally means that Turkey is responding to Israeli actions that have probably killed Turkish soldiers, not just in getting beat with a metal rod.

And I know the full intent of the Flotilla, its primary goal was political to highlight the collective punishment that Israel has placed on the population of Gaza. Dont give me any BS about it being about preventing military equipement from getting into Gaza as Mayo and Potato chips are not weapons or dual use items and they were/are banned under the blockade.

Simba · Jun 22, 2010

Lord Tammerlain said:
I do love the fact that in todays world trying to provide food makes you a terrorist. I knew the Red Cross was evil, I just never knew why untill now they are terrorists

Exactly, Lord Tammerlain. Yet, not in today's world. Only in the view of the American media and the politicians held captive by AIPAC lobbyists. The American military is not fooled by such propaganda.

alexa · Jun 22, 2010

washunut said:
As to trying to provide food, that is B.S. and I think you know that. You may even understand that the people the Turks loaded onto that ship were there for one reason, to provoke an incident. Israel fell into the trap.

Absolutely not as to what Lara Lee told the United Nations.

Israeli Navy Attacks Gaza Freedom Flotilla | Cultures of Resistance

(3rd or 4th video down)

Not just her opinion of course. Why do you say as fact things which in reality are disputed?

Apocalypse · Jun 22, 2010

alexa said:
Absolutely not as to what Lara Lee told the United Nations.

Is that supposed to be a rebuttal?

alexa · Jun 22, 2010

Apocalypse said:
Is that supposed to be a rebuttal?

It is a fact. Washnut is stating as 'facts' things which are his opinion and are disputed.

Apocalypse · Jun 22, 2010

alexa said:
It is a fact. Washnut is saying as 'facts' things which are his opinion and are disputed.

Whatever, I don't care, simply wondering how can "That's not what she said" even be considered as a rebuttal.

alexa · Jun 22, 2010

Apocalypse said:
Whatever, I don't care, simply wondering how can "That's not what she said" even be considered as a rebuttal.

actually you will note that what I asked was why he presented as facts things which are disputed and therfore cannot be called 'facts'.

ido_ · Jun 22, 2010

washunut said:
Perhaps Israel shold start sending " humanitarian" supplies to the Kurds.

The fact is that Israel is supporting Turkey in this fight and not the other way around. Just yesterday I saw the Turkish chief of staff praise his Heron UAVs.

kaya'08 · Jun 22, 2010

The OP's lack of knowledge regarding Turkey is outstanding hence the stupid idea's of expelling one of the largest NATO contributors, and active members of European security from EU candidacy.

kaya'08 · Jun 22, 2010

ido_ said:
The fact is that Israel is supporting Turkey in this fight and not the other way around. Just yesterday I saw the Turkish chief of staff praise his Heron UAVs.

The army has no qualms with Israel. TAF (Turkish armed forces) and the IDF maintain exceptional relations and always have. It is the AKP, who is anti-TAF and anti-IDF that is causing the problems, hence why Jews and anti-Turkish posters alike need to re-evaluate there knee jerk views against secular Turkey.

Infinite Chaos · Jun 22, 2010

joergan said:
Now that the Turkish leadership has opted to cater to the worst filth, the pro-terrorist islamist element of the voters, and side with the enemies of the West, namely Iran and Syria, it is time for the West to expel Turkey from NATO as a start.

US blames EU for Turkey's eastward shift
US Defense Secretary Robert Gates stirred the ire of both the European Union and Turkey when he suggested that Turkey was moving east because it was being shut out from the EU. Critics say there is some truth to it. Deutsche Welle

There are probably a range of other decisions as to why Turkey may be looking East.

joergan said:
-- I would also believe it would be prudent for the EU to finalize its rejection of the Turkish application to the EU, along with the expulsion of Turkey from the WTO. The WTO rules require open trade procedures, which Turkey is violating with its boycotts and blockades of Armenia and Cyprus.

As a citizen within the EU, I don't believe in further expansion whether it's Turkey or not (though Turkey should have joined long before some of the Eastern European states like Bulgaria and Romania) but the US has certainly put a lot of pressure on the EU over the last 10-15 years to accept Turkey in. The US isn't about to stop that now unless Turkey decides to walk away.

Efendi · Aug 5, 2010

Speculation about Turkey looking to west has no clear meaning.

What is wrong in increasing economic and politic ties with the neighbouring countries? It is turkeys natural right. Frenks, Germans, and others makes bussines with Iran and other mideastern countries. Do they turn to east. It is sheer absurdity.

Laila · Aug 5, 2010

Turkey is an active and on the whole a brilliant addition to NATO.

No way should it be removed from NATO.
I want Turkey on Europe's side rather than what we can see now occurring, Turkey turning Eastward because Europe has wrongly rejected them.

Efendi · Aug 5, 2010

Laila said:
Turkey is an active and on the whole a brilliant addition to NATO.

No way should it be removed from NATO.
I want Turkey on Europe's side rather than what we can see now occurring, Turkey turning Eastward because Europe has wrongly rejected them.

Turkey is just following her economic benefits that is all. Turkeys strong ties with Syria, Iraq, and other mideastern countries is more favourable than isolation. Besided it is Turkeys right to improve her relationships with these country. Many of the EU member countries do the same, when it comes to Turkey it is regarded in different way. It is not fair aproach.

Turkey will never be in EU.

First of all EU memberships don't have worthy benefit to Turkey besides her potential harm on the economy. I am not sure Turkey won't have problem when she is in with the hatefull face of Christianity and racism of Nazis. It seem to be on rise. Most European define themshelf as Christian club. Turkey is mostly rejected for being muslim. There is no smell of democracy, universalism, humanism....

Expel Turkey from NATO, cancel EU application

joergan

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DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

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Expel Turkey from NATO, cancel EU application

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DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

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