Evolution vs. Creationism[W:2571, 3239]

[Manc Skipper]

Why not just wait they might change it again. loleace

No. You either didn't read or understand the explanation.

 

[calamity]

Hopefully .lol

So what does the Red shift do, I heard a rumor that the Red Shift is another theory yet to be confirmed as fact.

Does a the sound of a siren seem to be at a higher pitch as it approaches you than when it is going away? Red shift is the same principle, except with light instead of sound.

Ya see that's a problem for me Atheist say they have all this Microwave radiation, red shift, comic background , the afterglow of the Big Bang wavelengths, but nobody says what was before this Big Bang if it happened nobody knows how.
Of course they know for certain there is no God
So I'd like to know how they know, for before the UNIVERSE we must think about being Nothing a vacuum of nothing , but Atheist seem to know how it started, how can the Atheist be certain there is no God, or do Atheist no all of the unknown there is to know.
A lot of galaxies and solar systems out there ya know , do they know every planets environment I think not.eace

Of course atheists do not know all the unknowns.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Hopefully .lol

So what does the Red shift do, I heard a rumor that the Red Shift is another theory yet to be confirmed as fact.

Ya see that's a problem for me Atheist say they have all this Microwave radiation, red shift, comic background , the afterglow of the Big Bang wavelengths, but nobody says what was before this Big Bang if it happened nobody knows how.
Of course they know for certain there is no God
So I'd like to know how they know, for before the UNIVERSE we must think about being Nothing a vacuum of nothing , but Atheist seem to know how it started, how can the Atheist be certain there is no God, or do Atheist no all of the unknown there is to know.
A lot of galaxies and solar systems out there ya know , do they know every planets environment I think not.eace

Nothing was before the big bang. The universe came into being at that instant. "before" had no space-time to happen in.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

The lack of evidence or explanation of something doesn't automatically make it the act of a higher power. your words.

The lack of hard evidence "confirmed" nor the explanation based on a theory unproven doesn't automatically make the Big Bang truth
I'm just trying to balance the scales here, For it seems that atheist know God does not exist , and know how the universe, and how evolution started.
I seek knowledge of the unknown , are not all of these unknown, , faiths, beliefs , non beliefs yes , but yet in truth unknown. eace

Except you can't legitimately "balance the scales" by trying to claim that lack of explanation for something or some things is some sort of evidence for God or any higher power. It isn't. There is no legitimate verifiable evidence for any God or higher power. There is some evidence for the Big Bang Theory.

What you seem to not understand is that no one but you believes that atheists are the only people arguing with you. I lean toward the existence of a higher power (although I am agnostic), but I also see no real problem with a higher power existing and the Big Bang Theory being what caused the beginning of the universe we currently live in. Not sure why you feel that one has anything to do with the existence of the other. The only thing it possibly changes is the existence of certain Gods or higher powers, as described by certain religious texts.

 

[roguenuke]

At the beginning of evolution, what and how evolution started , no human on earth can say for sure to say they know this would be FALSE
Science has its theories, organized religion has its sermons an churches , but no man knows how, what or where evolution started.
We has humans whether creationist or atheist or faith believers still search for that answer today.eace

It could have been directed or simply happened. Either is possible. But even if we can prove that we can create life through science, without God or any higher power, it wouldn't be any sort of evidence against a generic higher power, only the stories of certain higher powers believed in by certain religions (and even then, many will simply adapt to the new knowledge by explaining it somehow using the texts that this is what those words were saying all the time).

 

[Absentglare]

Hopefully .lol

So what does the Red shift do, I heard a rumor that the Red Shift is another theory yet to be confirmed as fact.

Ya see that's a problem for me Atheist say they have all this Microwave radiation, red shift, comic background , the afterglow of the Big Bang wavelengths, but nobody says what was before this Big Bang if it happened nobody knows how.
Of course they know for certain there is no God
So I'd like to know how they know, for before the UNIVERSE we must think about being Nothing a vacuum of nothing , but Atheist seem to know how it started, how can the Atheist be certain there is no God, or do Atheist no all of the unknown there is to know.
A lot of galaxies and solar systems out there ya know , do they know every planets environment I think not.eace

Red shift is not a theory, it's an observation.

There are explanations of red shift that qualify as theories. Those explanations are not confirmed facts (i'm not sure that's even appropriate terminology for physics- generally we have causal relationships that we can approximate within certain regions of convergence, for example, physicists may use newtonian mechanics for a catapult, while they may use quantum mechanics to calculate the probability spectrum of an electron).

I don't believe that we can prove or disprove the existence of God. I may depart from my fellow science minded peers here. Fine.

I believe that science operates in the physical realm of existence, and religion operates on a spiritual realm of existence (presupposing its existence at all). The sole intersection between these two planes is consciousness. Only through the mind can spirituality manifest. It doesn't change molecular composition, or induce electromagnetic waves, it simply speaks to us.

There are an infinite number of possible explanations for a given observation set. Science operates on particles, waves, on things we can physically observe. Among our observations, there is more than one possible explanation. We generally assume that the explanations that satisfy more criteria are more likely. Such criteria include simplicity, meaning that they make the fewest assumptions, the fewest leaps from what we've come to understand about physical reality.

Simply stated, creationism isn't a reasonable explanation for our given observation set. We should learn the likely explanations for given observations, not the less likely explanations.

Here is where the fundamental problem occurs. Religious folks think creationism is more likely, but objective folks (those who are indifferent to religion) seem to overwhelmingly favor evolution.

 

[DDD]

Let me clear that up for yas , I should never have tried such a hard sentence on an Atheist or is it atheist?

Anyway , to me it is simple what do all Atheist have in common , they don't believe Gods exist, however they have yet to prove with FACTS that he doesn't.

There I even answered the question for you.eace

Thank you for clarifying and illustrating the appealing to the unknown logical fallacy.

 

[DDD]

Uhh, you might want to check some of the post sent to me \
Organized religion = preachers = sermons.
Atheist = intellectuals = theories
Bottom nonconformist individual who would stand against both , for both are wrong in trying to make an Individual believe as they believeeace

Nihilism, okay I guess...

 

[Quag]

I would not want to limit human knowledge
However would you want to limit the advancement of scientific discoveries on Earth?
As far as the scientific problems of Earth being found "out there",; I would think you have to get out there first. That starts on Earth no magic theory of the universe is going to find the right formula for space travel except on Earth. Each scientific victory the human race has , has started here on Earth from Einstein on up. From sputnik to the space shuttle, research started on Earth, and there are more.eace

When you said

To the Atheist I would say stop pushing science into investigating something that happen i billions of years back to prove there is no God, let science take it's own course.

You made 1 error, you claimed it was atheists trying to disprove God(s) investigating the origins of the unvierse, this is untrue as it is scientists and they are trying to udnerstand the origins of the universe NOT disprove God(s).
You also made 1 implication, that we should limit what we try to know as not to offend certain people.
So I ask again why do you want to limit human knowledge?

 

[Quag]

Which of these two would make you happy?
Your services are no longer required or
HA ya get yor rase.
Pick oneeace.

I have no clue what Ha ya get yor rase means.

 

[Quag]

Nothing was before the big bang. The universe came into being at that instant. "before" had no space-time to happen in.

Just a correction on the bolded, the universe as we know it came into being.
Before the big bang we have no idea what there was. There are many guesses that at best make it to the level of hypothesis, not theories.
What Came Before the Big Bang? - Universe Today

 

[presluc]

BBC - GCSE Bitesize: Red-shift

Kids are able to learn this stuff.

To learn about something does not make it fact.eace

 

[presluc]

When someone starts preaching about how we should worship the Big bang and billions begin doing it, you might have a point. Until then, lecturing and writing about the big bang for money is no different than selling tickets to the Super Bowl. Now, if you want to admit that church is there for entertainment purposes only---I'll entertain that idea.

Organized religion or most churches are there for power and money.
Are you willing to admit that the Big Bang theory is but a hobby for men with nothing else to do?eace

 

[presluc]

What atheist makes that claim?



How can a Jew, Christian, Muslim be certain there is a God?

Well i guess that makes me unique for although I have been baptized , since I am now a humble faith believer who seeks knowledge but I keep my faith,That is until someone comes up with FACTS to prove me wrong I research not only to find how God works , but how the universe works , I make no statements unless I can back it up with facts.


Atheist say they know for certain there is no God, based on circumstantial evidence ,hypotheses, and unproven theories
A question; How do Atheist know there is no God?eace

 

[presluc]

No. You either didn't read or understand the explanation.

What I don't understand is theories called fact based on circumstantial evidence, wHAT i DON"'T UNDERSTAND IS HOW A SPECIES ON ONE PLANET WHO AS YET TO LEAVE IT'S PLANET TO ANOTHER PLANET CAN KNOW ALL ABOUT THE UNIVERSE.eace

 

[calamity]

What I don't understand is theories called fact based on circumstantial evidence, wHAT i DON"'T UNDERSTAND IS HOW A SPECIES ON ONE PLANET WHO AS YET TO LEAVE IT'S PLANET TO ANOTHER PLANET CAN KNOW ALL ABOUT THE UNIVERSE.eace

 

[calamity]

Well i guess that makes me unique for although I have been baptized , since I am now a humble faith believer who seeks knowledge but I keep my faith,That is until someone comes up with FACTS to prove me wrong I research not only to find how God works , but how the universe works , I make no statements unless I can back it up with facts.


Atheist say they know for certain there is no God, based on circumstantial evidence ,hypotheses, and unproven theories
A question; How do Atheist know there is no God?eace

Because everything written about him has either been proven false or requires we ignore the observable evidence which contradicts those stories.

 

[winston53660]

Well i guess that makes me unique for although I have been baptized , since I am now a humble faith believer who seeks knowledge but I keep my faith,That is until someone comes up with FACTS to prove me wrong I research not only to find how God works , but how the universe works , I make no statements unless I can back it up with facts.

Okay well that gobbly gook is all well and something. Even though it seems you deny facts like red shift that is a quantifiable and testable fact. But it has nothing to do with what I asked you.

say they know for certain there is no God, based on circumstantial evidence ,hypotheses, and unproven theories
A question; How do Atheist know there is no God?eace

Okay goal post shifting...:roll:

Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
but Atheist seem to know how it started,

ME: What atheist makes that claim?

Now can you answer that?

 

[presluc]

Does a the sound of a siren seem to be at a higher pitch as it approaches you than when it is going away? Red shift is the same principle, except with light instead of sound.


Of course atheists do not know all the unknowns.

Of course you have seen the red shift happening at long distance right , don't think so , the human race of Earth as yet to be that far in the universe.

Finally a statement I can recognize not agree with but recognize, for after all Is there a God, higher power, intelligent design , all are unknown , but atheist say they know none of these exist
Isn't that knowing the unknown.?eace

 

[calamity]

To learn about something does not make it fact.eace

Uh, red shift is a fact. It can be repeated a million times if necessary with the result always being the same: light from objects moving away from us shifts to the red.

 

[presluc]

Nothing was before the big bang. The universe came into being at that instant. "before" had no space-time to happen in.

So you had nothing and through theories made something , wished I could have done that back in my hippie days I had nothing more than once. loleace

 

[calamity]

Of course you have seen the red shift happening at long distance right , don't think so , the human race of Earth as yet to be that far in the universe.

Finally a statement I can recognize not agree with but recognize, for after all Is there a God, higher power, intelligent design , all are unknown , but atheist say they know none of these exist
Isn't that knowing the unknown.?eace

The unknown is unknown. It's believers in god who want to fill in the blanks with easy answers.

I understand waves. I've heard the pitch in sirens change when objects approach verses when they are moving away. So, that light shifts red when objects are moving away is not in doubt. I have many doubts about many things, but red shift is definitely not one of them.

 

[Manc Skipper]

What I don't understand is theories called fact based on circumstantial evidence, wHAT i DON"'T UNDERSTAND IS HOW A SPECIES ON ONE PLANET WHO AS YET TO LEAVE IT'S PLANET TO ANOTHER PLANET CAN KNOW ALL ABOUT THE UNIVERSE.eace

Nobody here is claiming we do, just that we know more than you do, which frankly isn't difficult.

 

[Manc Skipper]

So you had nothing and through theories made something , wished I could have done that back in my hippie days I had nothing more than once. loleace

More gum flapping with zero content.

 

[presluc]

Re: Evolution vs. Creationism

Except you can't legitimately "balance the scales" by trying to claim that lack of explanation for something or some things is some sort of evidence for God or any higher power. It isn't. There is no legitimate verifiable evidence for any God or higher power. There is some evidence for the Big Bang Theory.

What you seem to not understand is that no one but you believes that atheists are the only people arguing with you. I lean toward the existence of a higher power (although I am agnostic), but I also see no real problem with a higher power existing and the Big Bang Theory being what caused the beginning of the universe we currently live in. Not sure why you feel that one has anything to do with the existence of the other. The only thing it possibly changes is the existence of certain Gods or higher powers, as described by certain religious texts.

First of all my faith in God is mine personal , I have stated more than once if my faith is respected ,any belief or non belief or agnostic belief will be respected , but to say my faith is wrong is a challenge to my faith .Might be wrong maybe , I do not agree with you but I respect your faith better but to say I am wrong I would have to have proof I ain't seen any.
I guess atheist think there is no research done by faith believers , yet in 1977 a group of Christians broke from Organized religion because they had found out evolution does exist it is fact. There has been more research done and is till going on today

As far as evidence I have faith in God that is not confirmed not proven, unexplained phenomena has been called miracles , unconfirmed both are not fact.
The Big Bang Theory a Big Bang started the universe unconfirmed, theories in the beginning of evolution unconfirmed, theories "a work in progress" based on the Big Bang circumstantial evidence unconfirmedeace