Europe is abandoning Trump on the world stage as it turns away from the US toward China

[Conservative]

And what did the last president start with? Since the numbers are so important.

See, we can throw them about as much as we like but numbers mean little without a coherent explanation.

Here are official results enjoy

Table 1.1.5. Gross Domestic Product
[Billions of dollars]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: April 29, 2020 - Next Release Date May 28, 2020

Line 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019
Line
1 Gross domestic product 14712.8 14448.9 14992.1 15542.6 16197 16784.9 17527.3 18224.8 18715 19519.4 20580.2 21427.7

 

[Chomsky]

Again I'd like to think it will be a more decentralized matter. Perhaps coalitions of the more like minded countries will shift over time. Other G8 or G20 nations may roll in and out at times, such as Canada, Japan, Australia. There may not be one country we can point to anymore and call 'the leader of the free world,' as much as a handful of 'torchbearers'.

Ah, got it. Yeah, I agree. Yes, Trump, if elected again, will cause a realignment of the word order, the first major realignment in 70 years since the Marshall Plan.

But first we have the very real effects of coronavirus, and how it will effect business & tourism via international travel. Already AU & NZ have established a travel zone between the two, and are looking to expand it to other "safe" countries. If we (America) don't get this virus under control, we may get left out. We are currently the pandemic epicenter. What eradicated country is going to open up travel with us, under these virulent conditions?

Or Trump loses and all this MAGA nonsense is forgoten, America gets back on track - flawed yes, but preferable to chaos.

"democracy is a messy thing"

 

[Conservative]

And what did the last president start with? Since the numbers are so important.

See, we can throw them about as much as we like but numbers mean little without a coherent explanation.

More results for you, enjoy

Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
Original Data Value

Series Id: LNS13327709
Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (seas) Total unemployed, plus all marginally attached workers plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of all civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers
Labor force status: Aggregated totals unemployed
Type of data: Percent or rate
Age: 16 years and over
Percent/rates: Unemployed and mrg attached and pt for econ reas as percent of labor force plus marg attached
Years: 2008 to 2019

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2008 9.2 9.0 9.1 9.2 9.7 10.1 10.5 10.8 11.0 11.8 12.6 13.6
2009 14.2 15.2 15.8 15.9 16.5 16.5 16.4 16.7 16.7 17.1 17.1 17.1
2010 16.7 17.0 17.1 17.1 16.6 16.4 16.4 16.5 16.8 16.6 16.9 16.6
2011 16.2 16.0 15.9 16.1 15.8 16.1 15.9 16.1 16.4 15.8 15.5 15.2
2012 15.2 15.0 14.5 14.6 14.7 14.8 14.8 14.6 14.8 14.4 14.4 14.4
2013 14.6 14.4 13.8 14.0 13.8 14.2 13.8 13.6 13.5 13.6 13.1 13.1
2014 12.7 12.6 12.6 12.3 12.2 12.0 12.1 12.0 11.7 11.5 11.4 11.2
2015 11.3 11.0 10.8 10.8 10.9 10.4 10.3 10.2 10.0 9.8 10.0 9.9
2016 9.8 9.7 9.8 9.7 9.9 9.5 9.7 9.6 9.7 9.6 9.4 9.2
2017 9.3 9.1 8.7 8.6 8.5 8.5 8.5 8.6 8.3 8.0 8.0 8.1
2018 8.2 8.2 7.9 7.8 7.7 7.8 7.5 7.4 7.5 7.5 7.6 7.6
2019 8.1 7.3 7.3 7.3 7.1 7.2 7.0 7.2 6.9 7.0 6.9 6.7
2020 6.9

 

[sanman]

So what? Trump lies more, and he's a moronic incompetent. You seriously expect the world to put their faith in that?

Everything is "so what" to you - more absurdities from the blind leading the blind

 

[ClaraD]

for those of you who think we don't need China or Europe...explain why it is that every iphone in the country is on backorder? Not a single iphone able to be replaced by the insurance companies...all of them are on backorder, not just 2 or 3 models.

Also, many other cell phone replacements have become on bko and aren't available and there are no comperable models either. So, beware, don't break your phone, let it get stolen or have it malfunction....there just might not be a replacement right now.

 

[Conservative]

for those of you who think we don't need China or Europe...explain why it is that every iphone in the country is on backorder? Not a single iphone able to be replaced by the insurance companies...all of them are on backorder, not just 2 or 3 models.

Also, many other cell phone replacements have become on bko and aren't available and there are no comperable models either. So, beware, don't break your phone, let it get stolen or have it malfunction....there just might not be a replacement right now.

For those of you that have no understanding of the U.S. economy this is nothing more than red meat totally focused on being liked versus being respected. The U.S. basically feeds the world and that is a lot of economic power. think that S. Korea is going to cut off making phones for us? Communism has a way of creeping up all over the world and when finally realizing what a failure it is, it is too late. Let Europe get bought and paid for by China and see what happens when they actually need help

 

[Herkamer63]

Let them. Their people are gonna get screwed, just like how China screwed us, and they can't afford to pay the bills that the communist country is going to demand of them. Ultimately, if they do this, China will buy the EU, which means they'll buy the vast majority of Europe. Right now, Europe's main bills payer, the UK, is out of the EU, so they won't be there to bail them out.

 

[uptower]

Here are official results enjoy

No you were boasting about how 'Trump' brought black unemployment down from 8% to 6%. What was the figure when Obama started? Don't deflect, don't introduce other stats. Just that one please.

 

[Conservative]

No you were boasting about how 'Trump' brought black unemployment down from 8% to 6%. What was the figure when Obama started? Don't deflect, don't introduce other stats. Just that one please.

When the Democrats took control of the Congress, January 2007?? 7.9%

Why would you judge Obama's record at the low point ignoring basic civics and Congressional control by Democrats who wanted the WH more than they wanted to prevent a recession knowing people like you would buy the rhetoric and blame it on Bush?

9.1% when the recession started, 12.1 when Obama took office

8.0% when he left office

6.0% Pre pandemic which is lower than it was when the Democrats took Congress, lower than when Obama left office and historic low pre pandemic

 

[uptower]

When the Democrats took control of the Congress, January 2007?? 7.9%

Why would you judge Obama's record at the low point ignoring basic civics and Congressional control by Democrats who wanted the WH more than they wanted to prevent a recession knowing people like you would buy the rhetoric and blame it on Bush?

9.1% when the recession started, 12.1 when Obama took office

8.0% when he left office

6.0% Pre pandemic which is lower than it was when the Democrats took Congress, lower than when Obama left office and historic low pre pandemic

Dunno where these figures are pulled from but they're still covered in s***.

The real numbers are here. Obama inherited the recession - even 'basic civics' cannot deflect from that - and from the height of the recession two years later to the time Trump took office African American unemployment dropped by more than half: from 16% to 7.5%. Since Trump took office it has dropped a 'massive' 1.4 percent, or like a sixth of the drop under Obama. That's math by the way not 'basic civics'.



Now I do not really see the relevance here except that whenever someone criticizes Trump you cry about statistics and 'basic civics' in an attempt to deflect and move the goalpost. Furthermore I do not credit Obama with all of the jobs gained under his presidency any more than I attribute to Trump all the jobs gained since then (which I will remind you looks like about a sixth of those gained under Obama). Moreover I do not believe all those jobs were necessarily good or stable, as we've seen how easily a recession can wipe them out, and how the minimum wage has not measurably improved for many years. But if you want to d**k measure who got more jobs, so far Obama is ahead - almost six times as many as President Mushroom C**k to be precise.

Now back to the business that started all this, race relations are poorer, discrimination is worse, hate groups more numerous, especially white supremacists, and divisions deeper since Trump took office because he has led by a poor example. This has helped diminish America's role in the world and it is largely down to trump's white nationalist MAGA crap. The politics cannot be separated from the personality in this case - or at least the persona - because that's what Trump bases much of his platform and most of his decisions on.

 

[Conservative]

Dunno where these figures are pulled from but they're still covered in s***.

The real numbers are here. Obama inherited the recession - even 'basic civics' cannot deflect from that - and from the height of the recession two years later to the time Trump took office African American unemployment dropped by more than half: from 16% to 7.5%. Since Trump took office it has dropped a 'massive' 1.4 percent, or like a sixth of the drop under Obama. That's math by the way not 'basic civics'.

View attachment 67281164

Now I do not really see the relevance here except that whenever someone criticizes Trump you cry about statistics and 'basic civics' in an attempt to deflect and move the goalpost. Furthermore I do not credit Obama with all of the jobs gained under his presidency any more than I attribute to Trump all the jobs gained since then (which I will remind you looks like about a sixth of those gained under Obama). Moreover I do not believe all those jobs were necessarily good or stable, as we've seen how easily a recession can wipe them out, and how the minimum wage has not measurably improved for many years. But if you want to d**k measure who got more jobs, so far Obama is ahead - almost six times as many as President Mushroom C**k to be precise.

Now back to the business that started all this, race relations are poorer, discrimination is worse, hate groups more numerous, especially white supremacists, and divisions deeper since Trump took office because he has led by a poor example. This has helped diminish America's role in the world and it is largely down to trump's white nationalist MAGA crap. The politics cannot be separated from the personality in this case - or at least the persona - because that's what Trump bases much of his platform and most of his decisions on.

you have brought race into this forum and no racist would have generated the 6% unemployment Trump generated for African Americans. You make it about race, Trump has made it about creating jobs regardless of race

 

[uptower]

you have brought race into this forum and no racist would have generated the 6% unemployment Trump generated for African Americans. You make it about race, Trump has made it about creating jobs regardless of race

Well unless we could say that this 1.4 shift was specifically jobs earmarked for African Americans by a Trump administration policy, I don't think we can lay it at Trump's feet. The economy improved for a while, jobs increased, some of those went to black people. This is not a stroke of Trump's magic sharpie.

On the other hand his blatant racism and xenophobia, erosion of social safety nets, as well as his support for white supremacist groups and GOP minority vote suppression tactics have all set people of color back as well.

 

[Conservative]

Well unless we could say that this 1.4 shift was specifically jobs earmarked for African Americans by a Trump administration policy, I don't think we can lay it at Trump's feet. The economy improved for a while, jobs increased, some of those went to black people. This is not a stroke of Trump's magic sharpie.

On the other hand his blatant racism and xenophobia, erosion of social safety nets, as well as his support for white supremacist groups and GOP minority vote suppression tactics have all set people of color back as well.

Why on earth would a job be earmarked just for African Americans? Sounds very racist to me. blatant racism seems to exist with you but more importantly why are you letting the liberal ideology make African Americans dependent? African Americans that I know want equal opportunity and that is what Trump and Conservative economic policies create and what the left hates. Sounds like you do as well

 

[JustHanging]

On the other hand his blatant racism and xenophobia, erosion of social safety nets, as well as his support for white supremacist groups and GOP minority vote suppression tactics have all set people of color back as well.

Trump wanted to get elected, so he had to create a campaign that would appeal to his base. In Trump's opinion they are mostly cowardly racists.

Trump and G.O.P. Candidates Escalate Race and Fear as Election Ploys


Then they attack us for agreeing with Trump. LOL, crazy times.

 

[uptower]

Why on earth would a job be earmarked just for African Americans? Sounds very racist to me.

Well then Trump didn't hand them those jobs. Thanks.

If you want to make it about the numbers, bring some stronger ones. On the wider social issues, it is not possible to claim just because some more black people have jobs that Trump's obvious pandering to the racist right has had no effect. It has. The number of Jobs, like the Dow, is not the only measure of a healthy society.

 

[JustHanging]

Sounds very racist to me. blatant racism...

Dude, he's only agreeing with Trump's opinion of his base. If you have a problem with Trump thinking his base is largely composed of cowardly racists, take it up with him.

 

[ataraxia]

Noticed that you refuse to discuss policies and issues and continue to promote the politics of personal destruction. Trump's economic policies have blown Obama's 8 year results out of the water and his recovery from the pandemic will show you how it is done vs. Obama's worst recovery from a major recession in modern history

Results are something you refuse to research or acknowledge

You know, I keep hearing this. Here are the DOW and unemployment graphs from Obama to Trump's time. Show me at which point in the graph "Trump's economices policies have blown Obama's 8 year results out of the water". I suspect this is just something you have heard somewhere.

 

[uptower]

You know, I keep hearing this. Here are the DOW and unemployment graphs from Obama to Trump's time. Show me at which point in the graph "Trump's economices policies have blown Obama's 8 year results out of the water". I suspect this is just something you have heard somewhere.

View attachment 67281177View attachment 67281178

Please don't ruin a perfectly good talking point with actual statistics...

 

[Conservative]

Well then Trump didn't hand them those jobs. Thanks.

If you want to make it about the numbers, bring some stronger ones. On the wider social issues, it is not possible to claim just because some more black people have jobs that Trump's obvious pandering to the racist right has had no effect. It has. The number of Jobs, like the Dow, is not the only measure of a healthy society.

No, Trump created the economic policies that provided the incentive for businesses to do the hiring. Now are you going to answer the question? Why do you support an ideology that keeps African Americans dependent?

 

[Conservative]

Dude, he's only agreeing with Trump's opinion of his base. If you have a problem with Trump thinking his base is largely composed of cowardly racists, take it up with him.

Biased, partisan and void of data supporting the claims, that is liberalism and that is what is wrong with liberals, they buy rhetoric and ignore results

 

[uptower]

No, Trump created the economic policies that provided the incentive for businesses to do the hiring. Now are you going to answer the question? Why do you support an ideology that keeps African Americans dependent?

Tell me the ideology you think I support and how that makes African Americans dependent, and I'll tell you if I agree with either.

As for hard data, we've already wiped the floor with your claims: Trump's presidency alone has not improved jobs, in fact all he's done is comparatively put the cherry on top. I agree economic policies provide the incentive to do the hiring then as far as African American jobs go, Obama's admin oversaw six times more of that than Trump has managed.

 

[JustHanging]

Obama's admin oversaw six times more of that than Trump has managed.

Obama was an intelligent hard working POTUS. Obviously he did a far better job than Trump could even imagine.

To keep the Obama ball rolling, Trump has had to allow corporations to increase their pollution, cut their taxes, and drastically increase the deficit. Trump has turned the American economy into the equivalent of a crackhead party, where your children and grandchildren get stuck with the massive debt and cleanup bills so America can party on Trump's watch.

 

[Conservative]

Please don't ruin a perfectly good talking point with actual statistics...

Pretty charts no context but very pretty. Thanks for showing nothing but partisan ignorance of context. You want to start when Obama took office not when he announced he was running for President, February 2007 and when the Democrats took Control and worked to make that happen. You blame Bush for a recession when Democrats had control of the purse strings and legislative policies and they knew people like you would buy the rhetoric.

Obama was an economic disaster due to a resume that predicted that disaster, You continue to support an ideology that talks but never generates the promised results except to the rich liberal elites who benefit from the dependence liberalism creates.

You talk statistics but don't understand statistics, only pretty colors and lines on a chart that you believe tells you what you want to here. The reality is the electorate got it, you probably never will

Obama added 9.3 trillion to the debt and what did we get for that money?

1. The worst recovery from a major recession in modern history. 4.0 trillion in GDP growth or 500 billion a year
2. 9.3% U-6
3. 8.0% African American unemployment and was 7.9% when the Democrats took control of Congress
4.. Record numbers of part time employees for economic reasons which impacted the official unemployment rate
5. An 842 billion dollar shovel ready job stimulus that saw employment go from 142 million when Obama took office to 141 million three years later
6. Supposed jobs saved but no new taxpayers to fund the spending
7. 14.7 trillion GDP to 18.7 trillion GDP including the Gov't stimulus spending, 4 trillion dollar growth

What did we get in three years of Trump, pre pandemic

1. 900 Billion dollars a year annual GDP growth 2017-2018-2019. 487 billion dollar growth 2016 inherited, to over 800 billion 2017, one trillion in 2018
2 6.9% U-6 vs. 9.2% when the recession started and 9.3% when Obama left office
3 6.0% African American unemployment vs 7.9% when the Democrats took Congress and 21.1% when Obama left office
3. 1.4 million fewer part time jobs for economic reasons than what he inherited
4. 6.6 million jobs in 3 years whereas 6 million jobs were created the prior 9 years in office prior to Trump

Tell us we got our money's worth out of the Obama debt and aren't getting a return on the Trump debt?

 

[Conservative]

Obama was an intelligent hard working POTUS. Obviously he would do a far better job than Trump in every aspect. Except at being a social media troll of course.

LOL, based upon what?? You have zero credibility and I used to think a lot of liberals were book smart and street stupid, now I am questioning the book smarts

 

[JustHanging]

LOL, based upon what??

Facts and reality.

And Obama did it starting with an economy on the brink of collapse. Trump on the other hand started with a record breaking economy, and had to give huge tax cuts and cut environmental laws to keep the Obama ball rolling. Everyone knows Trump is lazy know nothing. Even his own party ignores him on important issues.

‘Too soon’: Trump disagrees with Georgia governor’s decision to reopen businesses | World news | The Guardian

Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment - BBC News

Governors: Trump making ‘delusional’ comments on testing and restrictions | World news | The Guardian
“The administration I think is trying to ramp up testing, they are doing some things with respect to private labs,” said Republican governor Larry Hogan of Maryland during a CNN interview. “But to try to push this off, to say the governors have plenty of testing and they should just get to work on testing, somehow we aren’t doing our jobs, is just absolutely false.”


On the plus side, soon I won't have to pay for overseas shipping on cheap imported goods from countries like Laos and Cambodia. I'll be able to drive across the border and pick them up myself.