- Joined
- Jan 5, 2007
- Messages
- 9,349
- Reaction score
- 3,947
- Location
- Montana
- Gender
- Female
- Political Leaning
- Undisclosed
Just because someone takes an action that is legal doesn't make their action morally right, and I think we all know that.
Aren't conservatives supposed to be the party of values? Why don't you want to know who these trackers were?
In this case, one person's actions were irrelevant to the others.So one person's actions do excuse another's in your view?
What claims?You also aren't interested in finding out why the claims of the trackers don't make sense?
Sure. Post the context.So you're not interested in additional information that may add context?
It has nothing to do with a Democrat - it has to do with an assault. Unless you're claiming the "whole story" ends in a self-defense claim... the rest of the story is irrelevant.You're not interested in the whole story, but just the story that makes the Democrat look bad?
My own is based on evidence. Not suppostion.Fair enough. Each to their own.
I'm more interested in justice and application of the law equally, no matter the "team".I'm more interested in social progress, truth, and the advancement of humanity than in seeing "my team" "win."
Ok.You're allowed to feel differently, however, and I respect your right to do so.
What right is there to shove a camera in peoples faces and start asking questions? Freedom of the press. Well the press is held accountable for what they report and do. These guys are anon.
Well, thankfully your moral views don't dictate the law. I have no idea as I'm not a conservative. I don't really care who they are. It wouldn't change a single thing about my views on this.
We did get the whole story: two immature kids did an immature thing which resulted in an assault by a congressman. The two immature kids might be part of the exposition, but the climax and conclusion of this story remain the same: the congressman behaved very, very badly and in a totally inappropriate way.
If that were actually the end of the story, I'd agree with you.
However, I think that right now it appears that a competing political interest used some very young people in a very unscrupulous and insidious way, in an attempt to manipulate and control the general population on the merit of emotion rather than the substance of issues. Oh, and yes, the Congressman responded poorly.
I'm more worried about the sneaky, manipulative, lying propagandists that would take advantage of and enlist young people to do their dirty work. Obviously if they could win on the merits of their argument, they would. They can't, so they're using this tactic instead. Logically then, whatever their goal may be is likely not in our best interests as a society.
If that were actually the end of the story, I'd agree with you.
However, I think that right now it appears that a competing political interest used some very young people in a very unscrupulous and insidious way, in an attempt to manipulate and control the general population on the merit of emotion rather than the substance of issues. Oh, and yes, the Congressman responded poorly.
I'm more worried about the sneaky, manipulative, lying propagandists that would take advantage of and enlist young people to do their dirty work. Obviously if they could win on the merits of their argument, they would. They can't, so they're using this tactic instead. Logically then, whatever their goal may be is likely not in our best interests as a society.
What's more important, the temper of a congressman when he's set up for exactly that occurance, or a group of people that are manipulating children, engaging in propaganda, and trying to sneak in policies and agendas that wouldn't be passed if they were dealt with honestly?
And what evidence do you have to back your assertion that these kids were used as pawns?
And if they were - how would that change the reaction of Etheridge or change the result? My point is... it doesn't matter.
Their story doesn't make any sense, that's why.
If they were scared, they'd have said where they were from. If they were students, they'd have said where they were from. They asked a loaded question to start the conversation off. They knew where the Senator would be - he was not at the Capital where one usually finds Senators. They had cameras ready and rolling, and they asked a loaded question.
These were not "just kids."
They had to know where the Senator was, get there at the right time, know what he looked like, asked a loaded question, didn't respond candidly when asked a question about who they were, you argue that they were scared but a scared person would answer the question...
Then they made sure to send the video out to a political Internet site, but made sure to cover their tracks as they did so - they didn't turn it over to their professor or their parents. They sent it to a political site so it would gain attention.
This story doesn't make sense. There's more to it than this.
I don't have to know the truth in order to see the lie.
If that were actually the end of the story, I'd agree with you.
However, I think that right now it appears that a competing political interest used some very young people in a very unscrupulous and insidious way, in an attempt to manipulate and control the general population on the merit of emotion rather than the substance of issues.
Oh, and yes, the Congressman responded poorly.
I'm more worried about the sneaky, manipulative, lying propagandists that would take advantage of and enlist young people to do their dirty work.
Obviously if they could win on the merits of their argument, they would. They can't, so they're using this tactic instead. Logically then, whatever their goal may be is likely not in our best interests as a society.
What's more important, the temper of a congressman when he's set up for exactly that occurance, or a group of people that are manipulating children, engaging in propaganda, and trying to sneak in policies and agendas that wouldn't be passed if they were dealt with honestly?
Their story doesn't make any sense, that's why.
If they were scared, they'd have said where they were from. If they were students, they'd have said where they were from. They asked a loaded question to start the conversation off. They knew where the Senator would be - he was not at the Capital where one usually finds Senators. They had cameras ready and rolling, and they asked a loaded question.
These were not "just kids."
They had to know where the Senator was, get there at the right time, know what he looked like, asked a loaded question, didn't respond candidly when asked a question about who they were, you argue that they were scared but a scared person would answer the question...
Then they made sure to send the video out to a political Internet site, but made sure to cover their tracks as they did so - they didn't turn it over to their professor or their parents. They sent it to a political site so it would gain attention.
This story doesn't make sense. There's more to it than this.
I don't have to know the truth in order to see the lie.
Have any evidence to back up this legitimate statement that their actions don't follow any sense of logic?
I fixed your question for you.
And yes, I've explained myself often enough now that I'm confident you're choosing not to acknowledge it rather than it actually being confusing to you.
Pretending it isn't there doesn't make it go away.
If anything, it's more telling that you're not curious as to why and how the trackers were there as well.
Well here's a deal: you present evidence of this and I will accept it. Until then, this is nothing but some unfounded conspiracy theory on your part. End of discussion.
Even some conservatives acknowledge that it's a set up, and even warn that this is a sign of things to come.
If these are the kinds of politics you really want to have at the forefront of discussions on what's good for our nation and our people, I guess that's your choice.
I'd rather discuss the issues, find logical solutions, and make our nation stronger rather than play at Jerry Springer goes to Washington.
I guess many would rather see their children grow up in a society dictated by who can sling the most mud, rather than one that makes decisions based on integrity and reason.
If you think for a moment that letting our own party get away with it is where it will end, you're mistaken. The Democrats are perfectly willing to engage in this kind of behavior if that door is opened. Only citizens who demand integrity in their political process can prevent what's already a very dishonest and manipulative political machine from becoming even more corrupt and dishonest.
I guess some folks would rather see their team win by cheating and have the result be an even bigger mess of American politics than to hold people accountable.
Bad news guys, know what's wrong with American politics? It's not the politicians. They're doing what they have to do to try to get in there and make some progress. It's the people that dictate the dishonesty - when we condone or allow it. This case is a perfect example.
Get used to ambushing, trackers, and this kind of political engagement. We no longer need to discuss any issues. We just need to engage in smut journalism. Who cares what the issue is, or what's wrong or right with the country or its policies? We needn't be bothered with intelligent discussions. Let's just sling mud and see who comes out dirtiest to decide the winner, the policy, and the future of our children.
Integrity is not a sometimes thing.
So one guy writing an opinion piece in the Washington Post turns into "some conservatives"?
Frankly, I could care less who they are.
Even if they are a part of some big conspiracy, it still doesn't justify what Etheridge did.
No, the guy writing the opinion piece works for the Washington Post. I'd suspect he's pretty liberal. The person he spoke to that is a conservative political avtivist however...
Then you're exactly who I'm calling out.
I never said it did.
I just find it fascinating that the very people who claim that politicians are deceitful are the same people who encourage it, force it to be that way, and cheer when it's done. The reason our political landscape is so full of lies isn't because of the politicians - they're just doing what they have to do to try to get in there and make some progress. The reason our politicians lie, cheat, and manipulate is because the people they work for force them to do so.
Yes, David Weigel works for the Washington Post. He primarily blogs on Libertarian and Conservative issues. Plus, he contributes to a Libertarian magazine, which makes me assume that he himself is a Conservative.
I still fail to see how that turns into "some Conservatives".
Frankly, I'd rather deal with what we do know than theorize about possibilities.
:rofl Are you kidding me? What happened to taking responsibility for your own actions?
Irrelevant to the topic. Our political system is not at risk here, just one guys political career and possibly a criminal fine with probation. There is no dishonesty, no propaganda, no blatant degradation. You make up accusations with no to defend actions of a Congressman who assaults someone in broad daylight on the street and is caught on camera doing it. Where's YOUR accountability? I hope your at least getting paid for such nonsense because as you can tell, your persuasion powers are lacking.On the contrary, what I've called for is some major accountability for Etheridge. I've also called for accountability for the political dishonesty, propaganda, and blatant degradation of our political system in order to try to discredit someone else's personal character rather than engage the issues.
Everyone's a loud conservative or claims to be. The only accountability needed here is for Etheridge and for your calls for that - you're to be commended. The rest of the creative writing story of some cabal of Republicans etc.etc... belongs in the conspiracy theory trash can.If anything, I'm the only loud conservative voice I see in this thread that is calling for accountability. Accountability for every person involved, not just those that sit across the aisle from me.
The only character and integrity at question here is that of Etheridge and no, I for one do not join with fakes who cannot be honest. I hope that "join me" bupkus was some sort of badly executed sarcasm.I'm calling for that because I believe that the issues matter, because I believe character matters, and because to me integrity is not a sometimes thing.
Won't you join me?
You've presented no evidence there is such a context therefore, there's nothing else to consider until such time as that occurs.Fair enough, Ockham.
To me, the entire context of a situation matters. I don't know how one can claim to make good decisions and judgments without knowing the full situation, but if that's your choice so be it.
You claimed to be a conservative... what "party" are you referring to? And let me point out that's exactly the problem and why you've gotten such hard push back ... you're for "party" instead of for "equal justice under the law". Frankly, I find it ironic as hell that you're claiming integrity when your fictional demonization of these kids who asked this Congressman a question has been so broad and conspiracy like. You cannot claim to represent truth, morals and integrity when it's obvious that your words do not represent those same things. That's called "hypocrisy".I also very much stand by the statement that in order for my stance to be strong, for my party to be strong, and to ensure that I'm living up to my responsibility as a citizen, I need to demand integrity. From myself and from my allies, as well as from my adversaries.
Let me break a sad fact to you --- there is no "win" on the internet. There's no final game, this isn't Highlander where "there can be only one" and you claim the prize of the universe. You don't get even a stupid teddy bear for "win" - there's just sharing ideas, opinions and growth as an individual. If you cannot grasp that concept you will be guaranteed failure. Grow up.I'm not here to "win."
Do that by being honest, trustworthy and credible. All three things your posts in this thread have not been. Turn over a new leaf.I'm here to make the world a better place.
I just told you how YOU can do that - you cannot influence "we". Start with yourself.I don't know how we can do that with only parts of the information and without being honest about things.
Frankly, I could care less who they are. Even if they are a part of some big conspiracy, it still doesn't justify what Etheridge did.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?