JoeMama
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Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan appears set to milk the popularity he gained in the streets of Turkey and the Middle East after the Marmara crisis in which nine Turks were killed by Israeli forces in a seriously botched up military operation.
It is almost as if he was waiting for a new crisis with Israel to be able to work the streets in order to regain some of the political ground his ruling Justice and Development Party, or AKP, has been loosing over bread and butter issues at home.
He and his party executives are clearly worried that the reinvigorated Republican Peoples Party, or CHP, may make headway given the successful manner in which its new leader, Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu, has been hitting at the government over topics that really matter for the average man on the street. He is also concerned that the Saadet (Felicity) Party, the other Islamist party, may steal votes from the AKP given the rising dissatisfaction among the public.
...
So we see him increasingly turning up the volume of his demagoguery, and hitting at Israel and the United States at every opportunity that presents itself. No doubt he is keeping a close eye on the “political rating meter” as he sends his crowds to paroxysms of delirious applause with his remarks, some of which smack openly of anti-Semitism and reflect a growing anti-Western tendency.
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Over the weekend he went further and openly named the U.S. this time, thus revealing what lies in his heart-of-hearts. This is what he had to say while addressing an adoring crowd in Rize, on the Black Sea coast, where people are not only religious but also ultra-nationalist.
“They are asking us what Turkey is doing in the Middle East, in Palestine. Why is Turkey bothered about Gaza? But could they not be asked in return what America is doing in Iraq? What is it doing in Palestine? Could it not be asked what is it doing in Afghanistan? What are France, Britain, and Holland, and so on, doing in these places?”
I think it's highly cynical to suggest that a head of state expressing outrage at the deaths of nine of his citizens is done solely for political gain...
Would we be saying the same thing if Obama made a speech condemning an attack on American citizens by the Iranian Republican Guard? Would we still think it was solely for political purposes if Israel were condemned for using the identities of foreign citizens in order to assassinate a senior Hamas figure on foreign soil....
Some food for thought....
I think it kind of a hyperbole to say that this for political gain, since all of the people that were killed were Turkish citizens. Would you blame Obama for getting mad at Israel for the duel American citizen that was killed in this fiasco?
Well he didn't get mad at Israel for a reason, I think he knows too well what this American was up to moments before he was shot down.
Would Israeli officials condemn Australia if an Australian soldier was to shoot down an Israeli citizen that was trying to stab him?
Absolutely not.
all this without an inquiry. There surely is no need for one.
No there actually isn't, the facts are way too clear on this one.
The only reason why there is an inquiry is because of the hypocritical international community, mainly Europe.
Europe doen't have much faith in an inquiry. Generally speaking we have learned that when the truth is known before an inquiry happens, there is no point.
Now that's just hilarious, because what you've just said is the complete opposite of the European stance on this issue.
If they'd have been following your guidelines they would have never condemned Israel for the violence created by the activists.
Well that too is hilarious since I didn't declare the results of the inquiry but have declared what is obvious from the facts released so far.Knowing the results of an inquiry before it happens is what is hilarious, or maybe not. We call that a Whitewash.
I don't see a reason to claim that this inquiry is unfair, but of course you're just setting the grounds for when the inquiry's results would be released, and would most likely be completely in contradiction with your version of the incident.Obviously people need to ask for an inquiry and a fair and impartial inquiry and unlike the one Israel is planning one which looks at all who are involved, but I think people are aware this is unlikely to happen.
Well that too is hilarious since I didn't declare the results of the inquiry but have declared what is obvious from the facts released so far.
I don't see a reason to claim that this inquiry is unfair, but of course you're just setting the grounds for when the inquiry's results would be released, and would most likely be completely in contradiction with your version of the incident.
How terrible must the truth be to the ears of those who deny it.
Nope I was going by this The public has a right to know - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
and this Aznar, Trimble to launch new pro-Israel project. 'Friends of Israel | Jerusalem Post Newspaper | Find Articles at BNET
both links I provided in a thread you were in yesterday.
What are you referring to with "I was going by this and this"?
What statements did you base on those articles?
Now that's just hilarious, because what you've just said is the complete opposite of the European stance on this issue.
If they'd have been following your guidelines they would have never condemned Israel for the violence created by the activists.
Alexas reply went right over your head.
The Europeans like many other nations are resigned to this 'type' of inquiry that has lost any impartiality prior to its commencement.
Paul
William Hague, the foreign secretary, said that the naming of Trimble and a Canadian judge to the Israeli panel was a welcome step
This really is Hilarious,Now that's just hilarious, because what you've just said is the complete opposite of the European stance on this issue.
If they'd have been following your guidelines they would have never condemned Israel for the violence created by the activists.
Once more there is absolutely zero reason to claim that the inquiry is not impartial, the people involved in it are credible, we're speaking about an independent inquiry, and it even has two international figures as observers.
It fits international standards and is being leaded by an highly respected Israeli judge, who was the judge of the supreme court.
So far I've only seen alexa showing opposition to the Irish nobel peace winner, but here's a passage from her article:
The truth that Netanyahu wishes to bring out involves the identity of the flotilla's organizers, its sources of funding and the knives and rods that were brought aboard. He does not intend to probe the decision-making process that preceded the takeover of the ship and the shortcomings that were uncovered. As far as Netanyahu is concerned, it will be enough for television channels to broadcast footage of dark-suited jurists, and politicians addressing them, to present the semblance of an "examination."
The disagreements that erupted at the week's end between Netanyahu and his deputy, Strategic Affairs Minister Moshe Ya'alon, over the question of whether Ya'alon was updated in time about the action underscored the suspicion of serious faults in the decision-making process with regard to the flotilla. Instead of being part of the whitewash, Tirkel, whose dodging of his earlier statements does him no honor, should return his mandate to the prime minister and demand that Netanyahu establish a government committee of inquiry with real powers.
But Netanyahu's panel will have no powers, not even those of a government probe, and its proposed chairman does not believe in such a panel. In an interview to Army Radio, Tirkel said there is no choice but to establish a state committee of inquiry. He opposed bringing in foreign observers and made clear that he is not a devotee of drawing conclusions about individuals and dismissing those responsible for failures.
I think that those who reject the inquiry's impartiality simply do so because it's an Israeli inquiry.
Now to our current story, on the 31st of May, 2010, after issuing countless of warnings to the participants of what was declared a "humanitarian flotilla" to stop and let Israeli officials inspect it, and after offering it to even peacefully achieve what initially was declared as their goal, to let Israel deliver the humanitarian aid into the Gaza Strip, Israeli soldiers have boarded the ships.
What those soldiers have discovered the moment they've boarded the ship was, that amongst the activists was a large group of thugs, all Turks, who came there with the intent to kill the soldiers.
Outnumbering them 6 to 1, they have attacked them with crowbars and slingshots, stabbed them with knives, and even opening live fire on them.
................
Now instead of offering his apology for his country's citizens behavior and a regret for the lost of lives and injuries, the Turkish PM has decided to lash out at Israel, attacking it over the operation and saying that it has deliberately murdered the so-called activists.
Apparently you believe that the Turkish PM has something to be outraged on, as if Israeli soldiers have just decided to open fire on his completely innocent citizens whom only sin was that they were trying to murder Israeli soldiers.
Is that not cynical? Is that not hypocritical?
I think it is, and I think it's showing.
No its not to answer your question, in fact I find Turkey's lack of response surprising especially after Israel confiscates evidence and refuse an investigation, such murderous operation targeting Turkish civilians is probably worth more than cancelling a couple of economic/militaristic deals to the murdered mens' families.
Well I have given you the link from where i got the information and I have given you the link and post number to where I gave the quote.
Lack of impartiality
We would expect any of our inquiries to look at this aspect. Missing it out is leaving out half the equation. It is already coming to the conclusion that there was no mistake made there when it may well turn out that this was where the mistake was made or that this was a contributing factor.
Especially when
Further
Here I believe that Israel is following the conditions asked but when the chair does not believe in such a panel, it gives rise for loss of confidence.
Well I have given my reasons. I had given them before in this thread but you ignored them.
Regarding Trimble, he was recommended by Tony Blair. Trimble is a member of a new organisation 'Friends of Israel' which only came into existence after the attack. So, he was not recommended by Israel but by Tony Blair but given that he is a member of this new organisation, his impartiality can easily be questioned. I accept that is not Israeli's doing.
quotes The public has a right to know - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
I'll simply use the words of the BBC reporter Paul Wood, when he said that the Israeli inquiry and its participants are not unfriendly, but are credible.
I do not even find a need to respond to your post.
Considering that, as every three years old (and really any rational person that's not a terrorist-supporter) would tell you, if the IDF wanted to kill those activists, all 1000+ of them would be dead, and not just 9.
Considering that all 9 were Turkish nationals, considering that the only deaths have occurred on board of the Mavi Maramra, and considering that Israel has every right to board and inspect a ship that's trying to run its blockade in international waters according to international law, the reason for the violence is obviously the intention of some of the activists to kill and murder the soldiers.
Unlike some, I have zero sympathy for people who try to murder soldiers(of any country). Self-defense only applies when you're under attack, and as the evidence released shows there are zero doubts that the activists, who are not seen dodging any bullets while they're waiting for the helicopter to come or while they're attacking the Israeli speed boats, have initiated the violence. I can only hope that those thugs' deaths was painful, as I do for any attempted murderer who gets shot down.
:roflAlthough they would have loved to to kill everyone, the blood thirst of the Israeli murderers who were unleashed on the activists had to be subdued at some point
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