Environmentalism is now primarily about stifling basic human aspiration

[flogger]

.
That's stupid. Paul Newman was an environmentalist. I don't care if you understand that. Perhaps you simply cannot see the big picture, or perhaps you're just totally ignorant - but it's a fact.

Thats patently impossible given this guys so called 'carbon footprint' was bigger than Texas :lol:

 

[ecofarm]

Thats patently impossible given this guys so called 'carbon footprint' was bigger than Texas :lol:

Wow, such ignorance. And willfully displayed too. Impressive.

 

[flogger]

Wow, such ignorance. And willfully displayed too. Impressive.

I'm not trading ad hominems with you. Take it on the chin with a bit more dignity :roll:

 

[Fisher]

The Green and environmental movement has this obsession with limits to everything, we are consuming too much they wail, people in the developed nations need 4 planet Earths to meet their current consumption levels......

I think the Green Party is an absolute joke, but that doesn't extend to the whole environmental movement. I almost went to work for the Sierra Club. I am more of the conservation vein, and even though they have put money into buying and protecting land, they were still too oriented toward lobbying for my taste. Sustainable development, high efficiency, recycling, urban greenspaces, cleaning streams, protecting wildlife, implementing best practices, organic agriculture, and all that are still effective even if not blockbuster pursuits.

What many of the more extreme environmentalist lack is common sense. People will recycle if it is convenient, buy high efficiency/energy star stuff if it saves them money and doesn't cost a fortune, build wildlife micro-habitats in their yards, etc etc etc., but even if we were going to run out of oil in 50 years, they still are not going to stop driving, stop buying plastics, and all the crap the extremist think we should have done 10 years ago but now have to do in the next 24 hours to save the human race. As with most things, there are reasonable approaches that reasonable people take and promote, and then there are the whackadoo's who could use a good dose of lithium.

 

[gslack]

Let's not be stupid. I've given my real name to members, they've confirmed my resume. I have plenty of pics available in my forum album. I've met a member; he can confirm that I'm the guy in the pics. Check out a few pics from the 2 years (my third visit) in rural Africa (alone) working with and researching agricultural development. ecofarm's Album: pics


So, who's that psycho looking ex-con in your avatar?

No thanks, the delusional rantings of a forum narcissist do not interest me. And pictures of such a person inspire me even less.. Oh and too late on the stupid part, you already did that...

 

[ecofarm]

I'm not trading ad hominems with you. Take it on the chin with a bit more dignity :roll:

It's not an ad hom. What are you, a mod? Take off that sheriff's badge there, cowboy. Go cry to someone else.

Your position is staggeringly ignorant. Anyone with any knowledge of environmentalism has heard of Newman and the many things he's done.

 

[ecofarm]

No thanks, the delusional rantings of a forum narcissist do not interest me. And pictures of such a person inspire me even less.. Oh and too late on the stupid part, you already did that...

Well, aren't we getting a bit snotty.

 

[gslack]

You claim it is hypocrisy. I (and let's face it, I know FAR more about this than you) say that your position is full of crap.

LOL, you know more about talking big and playing pretend expert that part is true, the rest, not so much...

You can't defend the hypocrisy, so now you grandstand and troll.. Nice work..Let me know when you have a legitimate argument..

 

[gslack]

Well, aren't we getting a bit snotty.

Nah you just declared yourself king environmentalist of the forum and then proceeded to tell me how you know more about this than I do.. I think the response was fair.. Please continue ranting over your greatness..LOL

 

[ecofarm]

As with most things, there are reasonable approaches that reasonable people take and promote, and then there are the whackadoo's who could use a good dose of lithium.

Strangely enough, it seems the ignorant masses expect all environmentalists to be whackadoos.

 

[ecofarm]

Please continue ranting over your greatness..LOL

I think you're whining about it enough.

 

[ecofarm]

You can't defend the hypocrisy,

There is no hypocrisy. Environmentalism is not about the "bad" one does, it's about the good one does. You're stuck in some kind of cult-like adherence format, perhaps via fundamentalist religion. You expect members of an ideology to march lock-step in every aspect of life but that's clearly stupid, it's counter-productive to the movement. Perhaps you would like environmentalists to be like fundie bible thumpers, all fire and brimstone for the sinners, but that's not how it works.

If you wanna be a cultie, fine. But don't turn other people's movements into your crappy vision of orcs marching.

 

[flogger]

Strangely enough, it seems the ignorant masses expect all environmentalists to be whackadoos.

Well stop giving them the ammunition then .....

 

[ecofarm]

Well stop giving them the ammunition then .....

I could give you millions of rounds and your position would still be an ignorant pile of crap.

 

[Fisher]

Strangely enough, it seems the ignorant masses expect all environmentalists to be whackadoos.

Not really that strange since the word "environmentalist" in mainstream media is largely connected to groups like Greenpeace and ELF. It is why I prefer "conservationist" for reasons beyond just that I am more oriented toward practical solutions that people get as opposed to parts per million of a chemical nobody has ever heard of being regulated as the focus. I am a little conflicted about these new light bulbs though--they save energy but they are going to be adding to mercury levels.

 

[flogger]

I could give you millions of rounds and your position would still be an ignorant pile of crap.

In what way do you feel the usage of this sort of rhetoric is in any way conducive to continued debate or advances your position here ?

 

[ecofarm]

In what way do you feel the usage of this sort of rhetoric is in any way conducive to continued debate or advances your position here ?

I don't think my position requires advancement. I think it's obvious that expecting environmentalists to be "perfect" is a BS tactic used by people completely ignorant regarding the movement in order to demonize others.

 

[flogger]

I am a little conflicted about these new light bulbs though--they save energy but they are going to be adding to mercury levels.

The messy and eco unfriendly processes involved in the mining for and manufacturing of the Lithium batteries for those trendy electric cars leave me with similar reservations with some experts claiming there could be a Lithium shortage in a few decades too.

 

[gslack]

There is no hypocrisy. Environmentalism is not about the "bad" one does, it's about the good one does. You're stuck in some kind of cult-like adherence format, perhaps via fundamentalist religion. You expect members of an ideology to march lock-step in every aspect of life but that's clearly stupid, it's counter-productive to the movement. Perhaps you would like environmentalists to be like fundie bible thumpers, all fire and brimstone for the sinners, but that's not how it works.

If you wanna be a cultie, fine. But don't turn other people's movements into your crappy vision of orcs marching.

Oh so now you are in fact the king of everything got it.. You decide what is and isn't so.. John travolta can fly his 707 as much as he wants, so long as he says the right things and drives a hybrid..Got it.. And that is why fewer people are taking your side seriously...

Good luck king..

 

[ecofarm]

Not really that strange since the word "environmentalist" in mainstream media is largely connected to groups like Greenpeace and ELF. It is why I prefer "conservationist" for reasons beyond just that I am more oriented toward practical solutions that people get as opposed to parts per million of a chemical nobody has ever heard of being regulated as the focus. I am a little conflicted about these new light bulbs though--they save energy but they are going to be adding to mercury levels.

Mercury doesn't become really dangerous until it's organic.

The toxic effects of mercury depend on its chemical form and the route of exposure. Methylmercury [CH3Hg] is the most toxic form. It affects the immune system, alters genetic and enzyme systems, and damages the nervous system, including coordination and the senses of touch, taste, and sight. Methylmercury is particularly damaging to developing embryos, which are five to ten times more sensitive than adults. Exposure to methylmercury is usually by ingestion, and it is absorbed more readily and excreted more slowly than other forms of mercury. Elemental mercury, Hg(0), the form released from broken thermometers, causes tremors, gingivitis, and excitability when vapors are inhaled over a long period of time. Although it is less toxic than methylmercury, elemental mercury may be found in higher concentrations in environments such as gold mine sites, where it has been used to extract gold. If elemental mercury is ingested, it is absorbed relatively slowly and may pass through the digestive system without causing damage. Ingestion of other common forms of mercury, such as the salt HgCl2, which damages the gastrointestinal tract and causes kidney failure, is unlikely from environmental sources.

And we don't get it from lightbulbs.

People are exposed to methylmercury almost entirely by eating contaminated fish and wildlife that are at the top of aquatic foodchains. The National Research Council, in its 2000 report on the toxicological effects of methylmercury, pointed out that the population at highest risk is the offspring of women who consume large amounts of fish and seafood. The report went on to estimate that more than 60,000 children are born each year at risk for adverse neurodevelopmental effects due to in utero exposure to methylmercury. In its 1997 Mercury Study Report to Congress, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency concluded that mercury also may pose a risk to some adults and wildlife populations that consume large amounts of fish that is contaminated by mercury.

And it's not a problem everywhere.

Although mercury is a globally dispersed contaminant, it is not a problem everywhere. Aside from grossly polluted environments, mercury is normally a problem only where the rate of natural formation of methylmercury from inorganic mercury is greater than the reverse reaction. Methylmercury is the only form of mercury that accumulates appreciably in fish. Environments that are known to favor the production of methylmercury include certain types of wetlands, dilute low-pH lakes in Northeast and Northcentral United States, parts of the Florida Everglades, newly flooded reservoirs, and coastal wetlands, particularly along the Gulf of Mexico, Atlantic Ocean, and San Francisco Bay.

Mercury in the Environment


So, basically, no dumping the lightbulbs in wetlands and we'll be ok.

 

[ecofarm]

Oh so now you are in fact the king of everything got it..

Yes, that's what I claimed. :roll:

How old are you?

 

[flogger]

I don't think my position requires advancement. I think it's obvious that expecting environmentalists to be "perfect" is a BS tactic used by people completely ignorant regarding the movement in order to demonize others.

You brought up this twaddle about 'perfection'. I simply alluded to the fact a celebrity had talked the talk without actually walking the walk

 

[ecofarm]

You brought up this twaddle about 'perfection'. I simply alluded to the fact a celebrity talked the talk without actually walking the walk

That's BS. You claim that someone must walk the walk all the time or they're a fake. The environmental movement is not a cult, as much as you may wish it was.

 

[Fisher]

The messy and eco unfriendly processes involved in the mining for and manufacturing of the Lithium batteries for those trendy electric cars leave me with similar reservations with some experts claiming there could be a Lithium shortage in a few decades too.

I don't know a lot about the mining aspect of it, but I know the electric car batteries are pretty toxic and cars have a tendency to wreck. My concern is that stuff getting washed into storm drains or the human exposure aspects for the drivers/EMS and the like. I do not consider electric a realistic avenue anytime in my life......maybe when my kids are 90 they will see it happen. The electric grid cannot support 75 million people cranking on the thermostat, turning all the lights and TV on, plugging in their car, and zapping some lean cuisine all between 5:30 and 6:00 when they get home from work.

 

[flogger]

That's BS. You claim that someone must walk the walk all the time or they're a fake. The environmental movement is not a cult, as much as you may wish it was.

So its all right to be an environmentalist only some of the time then. At other times you can indulge your expensive wasteful polluting hobby ,play with your real life racing cars and your conscience is clear because you think you've already paid your penance by driving your Prius ?

Gotcha