Election 2010: Quick Thoughts

[jdebate]

LOL, what third world socialist country do you live in and tell us all about your country's successes. This ought to be good

Oh I see now Texas LOL.

 

[German guy]

Maybe jdebate has a point and part of America's misery at the moment is because of a general decline on world scale. Other powers are rising, like China and India, and some more are in the line. Of course the USA will still be important, but not as exclusive anymore. Maybe the time of the USA being the sole superpower has started to be over, and question is just how this transition will look like. Can it be peaceful and gradual, or will there be violence?

At any rate, I hope America will manage to get up its feet once again, as usual, and despite all noise, find back to its old optimism. Accepting at least a relative decline of importance of world scale is probably inevitable. And I hope the result of this election does not mean there will be blockade, and nothing gets done in the next two years. That's not what America can use at the moment.

 

[Conservative]

I'M in Ireland, do you really think Western Europe is Third World .I notice you didn't address any of my points. Just like the trailer trash on Gerry Springer you come out fighting-typical Republican. God help America.

I know Jerry Springer quite well and his record. I didn't respond to your comments because I am smart enough not to watch Jerry Springer which apparently is a show you can relate to. As for being a typical Republican I would just settle for a thank you as I am the son of someone who kept your family from speaking German. Your country is one of the favorite countries my wife visited when single working for the airlines. We got all our Crystal from Ireland. I haven't found many however with your arrogance. If you want me to address any issues then provide some substance and not Jerry Springer references.

 

[jdebate]

Maybe jdebate has a point and part of America's misery at the moment is because of a general decline on world scale. Other powers are rising, like China and India, and some more are in the line. Of course the USA will still be important, but not as exclusive anymore. Maybe the time of the USA being the sole superpower has started to be over, and question is just how this transition will look like. Can it be peaceful and gradual, or will there be violence?

At any rate, I hope America will manage to get up its feet once again, as usual, and despite all noise, find back to its old optimism. Accepting at least a relative decline of importance of world scale is probably inevitable. And I hope the result of this election does not mean there will be blockade, and nothing gets done in the next two years. That's not what America can use at the moment.

Ihr Englisch ist ausgezeichnet, and I of course agree with you.

 

[jdebate]

I know Jerry Springer quite well and his record. I didn't respond to your comments because I am smart enough not to watch Jerry Springer which apparently is a show you can relate to. As for being a typical Republican I would just settle for a thank you as I am the son of someone who kept your family from speaking German. Your country is one of the favorite countries my wife visited when single working for the airlines. We got all our Crystal from Ireland. I haven't found many however with your arrogance. If you want me to address any issues then provide some substance and not Jerry Springer references.

Oh Here we go, typical you ignorant prick, America only came into the war after Pearl Harbour, maybe we should thank the English, The Austrailians they were involved also, long before America. This crap is ancient history .And I do Speak German I studied it at college.

 

[gmeyers1944]

There will be no move to the right...the GOP has zero interest in actually doing anything to change policy. Their entire strategy as evidenced by Mitch McConnell is simply to continue to be the "Party of No'. The Republicans have no ideas.

The Plum Line - Dems rip Mitch McConnell's "one term" remark, but will voters care?

I disagree. The Republicans need to do all they can to defund Obama care and eventually to repeal it after Obama is out of office. The Obama regeme has been a total disaster. Everything they do it bad for America. We need smaller government. We need more personal freedom and lower taxes. The people affected by increased taxes ( due to Bush tax cuts ending) are the people we need to provide more jobs. I have never worked for a poor person.

 

[gmeyers1944]

I expect that the Republicans will continue with their "Party of No" obstructionist tactics and then hope that the electorate simply blames Obama for the failure.
I truly believe that this is the GOP strategy. They are willing to risk losing the house, if they can possibly gain the Senate and the Whitehouse.

How do you compromise food with poison. Obama policies are poison.

 

[jdebate]

I disagree. The Republicans need to do all they can to defund Obama care and eventually to repeal it after Obama is out of office. The Obama regeme has been a total disaster. Everything they do it bad for America. We need smaller government. We need more personal freedom and lower taxes. The people affected by increased taxes ( due to Bush tax cuts ending) are the people we need to provide more jobs. I have never worked for a poor person.

You really swallow the party line hook line and sinker, what do you mean personal freedom and lower taxes.What if you don't have a job, what then, what taxes what healthcare, what freedom, you'r just an idiot.How is the American dream, are you a millionaire yet?What about that pension,if you have one .

 

[TurtleDude]

There will be no move to the right...the GOP has zero interest in actually doing anything to change policy. Their entire strategy as evidenced by Mitch McConnell is simply to continue to be the "Party of No'. The Republicans have no ideas.

The Plum Line - Dems rip Mitch McConnell's "one term" remark, but will voters care?

you sound rather bitter

what the GOP needs to do is to push a bill making the tax cuts permanent. Maybe the dem senate will block it, maybe they will agree and Obama can veto it

also interesting will be how much punitive bills the lame duck libs try to pass before they get the boot in January

but the GOP congress needs to make Obama veto tax cuts for everyone and then blast him on that in 2012

 

[TurtleDude]

You really swallow the party line hook line and sinker, what do you mean personal freedom and lower taxes.What if you don't have a job, what then, what taxes what healthcare, what freedom, your just an idiot.How is the American dream, are you a millionaire yet?What about that pension,if you have one .

_________________________________________________

"your just an idiot? " Oh the irony rings deep

I get it-you operate under the belief that you cannot be free unless someone else pays for your existence

 

[gmeyers1944]

I dont see the US econonmy improving by 2012, in fact I believe it will enter a second recession. Especially if government stimulus is blocked as it most likely would be by the republicans. Local and state governments are on the ropes financially, the federal government has a huge budget deficit (making actual stimulus difficult to afford). The US does not have the foundation of a good economic recovery ( as none of the reasons for the current problems have been resolved, and others are being created).

There will be a second recession. It will not be caused by blocked government stimulus. That has never worked and will not work now. It will be caused by the enormity of the debt caused by President Obama.

 

[jdebate]

_________________________________________________

"your just an idiot? " Oh the irony rings deep

I get it-you operate under the belief that you cannot be free unless someone else pays for your existence

No let me explain -you think you'r free, the point I'm making is that if you don't have a job and 16 million Americans don't, how do you afford healthcare? In Europe nobody pays for your existence, our taxes pays for our existance.We pay tax ,that tax pays for healthcare, education, pensions, unemployment etc.Germany for example is a richer country than America they have free education free healthcare unemployment assistance etc etc etc
I'm willing to explain more to you if you want to be educated about a better system, but I doubt if would be able to listen-because of your brainwashing by corporate America.

 

[jdebate]

_________________________________________________

"your just an idiot? " Oh the irony rings deep

I get it-you operate under the belief that you cannot be free unless someone else pays for your existence

By the way Margaret Thatcher increased the social welfare payments more than any other prime minister of England, it had to be cut quite harshly , by the next government .I think she was joking when she made this statment.She did however go after the unions, they lost allot of power during her reign, most people are happy about that. England is a democratic socialist society and very wealthy.

 

[Conservative]

No let me explain -you think you'r free, the point I'm making is that if you don't have a job and 16 million Americans don't, how do you afford healthcare? In Europe nobody pays for your existence, our taxes pays for our existance.We pay tax ,that tax pays for healthcare, education, pensions, unemployment etc.Germany for example is a richer country than America they have free education free healthcare unemployment assistance etc etc etc
I'm willing to explain more to you if you want to be educated about a better system, but I doubt if would be able to listen-because of your brainwashing by corporate America.

Thanks for joining the forum and coming to America via the internet to tell us how bad we have it here. My family will be sad to here how poor, uneducated, and under priviledged we are. I will take the economic growth, job creation, and freedoms here over anything you have there. Didn't see anyone protesting in the streets over last night's election here but I sure saw a lot of young people protesting in France the increase in the retirement age to 62. Yep, Europeans sure have their priorities right, how much can they get someone else to pay for their own personal responsibility.

Not sure where you get your news but I assure the Jerry Springer show isn't doing you any justice. Both France and Germany are abandoning that socialist model and Britain just agreed to billions in budget cuts which means entitlement cuts. Don't worry, America will be there to bail you out again when you get in over your head like arrogant Europeans are likely to do.

 

[Bassman]

I expect that the Republicans will continue with their "Party of No" obstructionist tactics and then hope that the electorate simply blames Obama for the failure.
I truly believe that this is the GOP strategy. They are willing to risk losing the house, if they can possibly gain the Senate and the Whitehouse.

Actually, you are dead wrong about that, but I expect that from a Liberal, Marco Rubio has stressed that the GOP now has to have ideas, policy, and a decisive platform in order to continue their momentum.

 

[missypea]

There will be a second recession. It will not be caused by blocked government stimulus. That has never worked and will not work now. It will be caused by the enormity of the debt caused by President Obama.

You do realize the catastrophic debt that Bush accumulated during his 8 years, don't you? Bush doubled our debt. I'll even give Bush ownership for some of Obama's debt problem over the last two years. It's impossible to stop an avalanche.

Let's try to have some kind of honesty in our posts, shall we? I'll blame Obama for what's Obama's but you're statement is ridiculous.

 

[Conservative]

Actually, you are dead wrong about that, but I expect that from a Liberal, Marco Rubio has stressed that the GOP now has to have ideas, policy, and a decisive platform in order to continue their momentum.

I do hope that the "party of no" remembers that when California looks for that big bailout

 

[Conservative]

You do realize the catastrophic debt that Bush accumulated during his 8 years, don't you? Bush doubled our debt. I'll even give Bush ownership for some of Obama's debt problem over the last two years. It's impossible to stop an avalanche.

Let's try to have some kind of honesty in our posts, shall we? I'll blame Obama for what's Obama's but you're statement is ridiculous.

LOL, do you understand how the budget process works? Obama has added 3 trillion to the debt in two years. He has put Bush spending on steroids. Please explain to me why the Bureau of Economic Analysis doesn't show the disaster that Obama claims he inherited, a disaster that actually began a year AFTER the Democrats took control of Congress. You seem to have a problem with facts and continue to buy Obama rhetoric. Obama has yet to be accurate on any prediction yet people like you continue to believe him, why? I also wonder how anyone can inherit an economy that they helped create for isn't that what congress does?

 

[jdebate]

Thanks for joining the forum and coming to America via the internet to tell us how bad we have it here. My family will be sad to here how poor, uneducated, and under priviledged we are. I will take the economic growth, job creation, and freedoms here over anything you have there. Didn't see anyone protesting in the streets over last night's election here but I sure saw a lot of young people protesting in France the increase in the retirement age to 62. Yep, Europeans sure have their priorities right, how much can they get someone else to pay for their own personal responsibility.

Not sure where you get your news but I assure the Jerry Springer show isn't doing you any justice. Both France and Germany are abandoning that socialist model and Britain just agreed to billions in budget cuts which means entitlement cuts. Don't worry, America will be there to bail you out again when you get in over your head like arrogant Europeans are likely to do.

Don't believe what Fox news tells you about Europe, were not abandoning the socialist model(see: riots in the streets about increasing free pension retirement age to 62 as proof of that, you missed that one)

There are cuts due to the recession, unemployment is on the rise and people are living longer, so either we pay more tax or we make cuts. Because of the recession we(most of Europe) are going to make cuts to social welfare. That will mean unemployment benefit will be cut and education grants will be cut.

For example my uncle is sending his 3 daughters to university in America it's costing him around $180,000 for the three of them per year, when he was in Ireland he found out that he could send his daughters to college here free that's Law school Free (there's a 3000 dollar registration fee) everything else is free including books and accommodation.His health insurance is 40,000 a year for all the family.You would have to make a lot of money to afford this.He's a doctor so no problem.

The universitys are world class in Ireland , as you will probably know The mayo clinic recruits doctors in Ireland .

Even when I prove you wrong you won't admit it.


The world recession was caused by the collapse of the American banking system a couple of years ago, thank you, but that kind of help we can do without.

 

[German guy]

I disagree. The Republicans need to do all they can to defund Obama care and eventually to repeal it after Obama is out of office. The Obama regeme has been a total disaster. Everything they do it bad for America. We need smaller government. We need more personal freedom and lower taxes. The people affected by increased taxes ( due to Bush tax cuts ending) are the people we need to provide more jobs. I have never worked for a poor person.

Of course this is a matter Americans are supposed to decide on. It's up to you to decide which government you want, which system you like and how you want to live.

But for what it's worth, here my two cents, from the perspective of a non-American: Germany did many things similar to what Obama did. We too bailed out banks, there was a stimulus, and we have a semi-private, semi-public health care system all along. Even more encompassing social systems and higher taxes. But what happened? The economy is booming now, growth is higher than even before 2008, and unemployment has dropped to the lowest level in 18 years. Whoo -- In my wildest dreams, I would not have expected that.

So my impression is that this crisis runs deeper, and has only few to do with Obama's policies. I even believe things would be worse without Obama saving certain banks from collapsing: Their collapse would probably have caused a chain reaction that would have drawn many other, not really bad banks into bankruptcy, due to people storming banks to get back their money. Just imagine the subsequent chaos this would have caused in the "real" economy, if that had happened. So without action to keep the second or third domino stone from falling, and without a stimulus to relieve the downturn, I imagine America might easily see not just 9% unemployment today, but maybe even 20% or more.

Deficit and debts? I agree this is a problem, as it had been before Obama came to office already. Without the burden of Afghanistan and especially Iraq Obama cannot be blamed for, things might look a little better. But I don't think it's the worst problem. In my opinion, I think constantly high unemployment is much worse, also because of its political implications -- broken people are more likely to follow horrible demagogues who bait them with illusionary, dangerous ideas, hatred and scapegoating. If things don't become much worse again, the deficit can be reduced again later, both by an economy finding back to growth, and by moderate inflation.

So from what I can see, I'd say without Obama's policies, things would probably be worse, rather than better. And Obama cannot be blamed for the root of these problems either, they started before he took office. That's why I feel sad for him. He has really an impossible task: He gets the blame for something he didn't start in the first place, and also, people judge him for what is, not for what would have been if I hadn't made his policies. That's only natural, because this alternate timeline is not obvious and a matter of speculation. But the situation Obama is in is really nothing to admire him for.

But those are just my two cents as a non-American. Of course it is and should be up to Americans to decide which policy and government they want, I don't mean to tell you what to do.

 

[pbrauer]

There will be a second recession. It will not be caused by blocked government stimulus. That has never worked and will not work now. It will be caused by the enormity of the debt caused by President Obama.

Humm. Bush doubled the debt and handed Obama a $1.416 trillion deficit. And the Great Recession was caused by Wall Street, The Big banks and the policies of George W. Bush.

 

[Conservative]

Don't believe what Fox news tells you about Europe, were not abandoning the socialist model(see:riots in the streets about increasing free pension retirement age to 62 as proof, you missed that one)

There are cuts due to the recession unemployment is on the rise and people are living longer so either we pay more tax or we make cuts. Because of the recession we(most of Europe) are going to make cuts to social welfare. That will mean unemployment benefit will be cut and education grants will be cut.

For example my uncle is sending his 3 daughters to university in America it's costing him around $180,000 for the three of them, when he was in Ireland he found out that he could send his daughters to college here free that's Law school Free (there's a 3000 dollar registration fee) everything else is free including books and accommodation.

The universitys are world class in Ireland , as you will probably know The mayo clinic recruits doctors in Ireland .

Even when I prove you wrong you won't admit it.


The world recession was caused by the collapse of the American banking system a couple of years ago, thank you but that kind of help we can do without.

As stated, I will take the 14.5 trillion dollar American yearly GDP over anything in Europe plus the incredible opportunities all Americans have over anything in Europe.

I don't need your education about Europe but thanks for the offer. In this country we accept personal responsibility, in your country that personal responsibility is paid for by someone else. Amazing that with Europe being that great your uncle would send his daughters to school in America. Seems that happens a lot on other issues as well as Europeans seem to be coming here for healthcare needs as well. Thanks, but I view myself as one of the lucky ones, I was born in the greatest nation on the face of the earth. All I see from you is jealousy.

 

[Conservative]

Humm. Bush doubled the debt and handed Obama a $1.416 trillion deficit. And the Great Recession was caused by Wall Street, The Big banks and the policies of George W. Bush.

Right pbrauer, Bush created a 1.4 trillion dollar deficit from October 1, 2008 to January 21, 2009. Don't you get tired of looking foolish.

 

[Conservative]

Of course this is a matter Americans are supposed to decide on. It's up to you to decide which government you want, which system you like and how you want to live.

But for what it's worth, here my two cents, from the perspective of a non-American: Germany did many things similar to what Obama did. We too bailed out banks, there was a stimulus, and we have a semi-private, semi-public health care system all along. Even more encompassing social systems and higher taxes. But what happened? The economy is booming now, growth is higher than even before 2008, and unemployment has dropped to the lowest level in 18 years. Whoo -- In my wildest dreams, I would not have expected that.

So my impression is that this crisis runs deeper, and has only few to do with Obama's policies. I even believe things would be worse without Obama saving certain banks from collapsing: Their collapse would probably have caused a chain reaction that would have drawn many other, not really bad banks into bankruptcy, due to people storming banks to get back their money. Just imagine the subsequent chaos this would have caused in the "real" economy, if that had happened. So without action to keep the second or third domino stone from falling, and without a stimulus to relieve the downturn, I imagine America might easily see not just 9% unemployment today, but maybe even 20% or more.

Deficit and debts? I agree this is a problem, as it had been before Obama came to office already. Without the burden of Afghanistan and especially Iraq Obama cannot be blamed for, things might look a little better. But I don't think it's the worst problem. In my opinion, I think constantly high unemployment is much worse, also because of its political implications -- broken people are more likely to follow horrible demagogues who bait them with illusionary, dangerous ideas, hatred and scapegoating. If things don't become much worse again, the deficit can be reduced again later, both by an economy finding back to growth, and by moderate inflation.

So from what I can see, I'd say without Obama's policies, things would probably be worse, rather than better. And Obama cannot be blamed for the root of these problems either, they started before he took office. That's why I feel sad for him. He has really an impossible task: He gets the blame for something he didn't start in the first place, and also, people judge him for what is, not for what would have been if I hadn't made his policies. That's only natural, because this alternate timeline is not obvious and a matter of speculation. But the situation Obama is in is really nothing to admire him for.

But those are just my two cents as a non-American. Of course it is and should be up to Americans to decide which policy and government they want, I don't mean to tell you what to do.

Very civil post and thanks for the insight. I will correct you on one thing, the bank bailout was TARP and that was passed and signed by GW Bush and is credited with saving the banks. I didn't support TARP but it was Bush's program and most of that has been paid back.

 

[jdebate]

Of course this is a matter Americans are supposed to decide on. It's up to you to decide which government you want, which system you like and how you want to live.

But for what it's worth, here my two cents, from the perspective of a non-American: Germany did many things similar to what Obama did. We too bailed out banks, there was a stimulus, and we have a semi-private, semi-public health care system all along. Even more encompassing social systems and higher taxes. But what happened? The economy is booming now, growth is higher than even before 2008, and unemployment has dropped to the lowest level in 18 years. Whoo -- In my wildest dreams, I would not have expected that.

So my impression is that this crisis runs deeper, and has only few to do with Obama's policies. I even believe things would be worse without Obama saving certain banks from collapsing: Their collapse would probably have caused a chain reaction that would have drawn many other, not really bad banks into bankruptcy, due to people storming banks to get back their money. Just imagine the subsequent chaos this would have caused in the "real" economy, if that had happened. So without action to keep the second or third domino stone from falling, and without a stimulus to relieve the downturn, I imagine America might easily see not just 9% unemployment today, but maybe even 20% or more.

Deficit and debts? I agree this is a problem, as it had been before Obama came to office already. Without the burden of Afghanistan and especially Iraq Obama cannot be blamed for, things might look a little better. But I don't think it's the worst problem. In my opinion, I think constantly high unemployment is much worse, also because of its political implications -- broken people are more likely to follow horrible demagogues who bait them with illusionary, dangerous ideas, hatred and scapegoating. If things don't become much worse again, the deficit can be reduced again later, both by an economy finding back to growth, and by moderate inflation.

So from what I can see, I'd say without Obama's policies, things would probably be worse, rather than better. And Obama cannot be blamed for the root of these problems either, they started before he took office. That's why I feel sad for him. He has really an impossible task: He gets the blame for something he didn't start in the first place, and also, people judge him for what is, not for what would have been if I hadn't made his policies. That's only natural, because this alternate timeline is not obvious and a matter of speculation. But the situation Obama is in is really nothing to admire him for.

But those are just my two cents as a non-American. Of course it is and should be up to Americans to decide which policy and government they want, I don't mean to tell you what to do.

Yes, I agree with everything you say.I think it crazy to blame Obama for the problems America-it must be the Bush years that caused the problem.

The first thing is that there is a difference between the individual and the economy. If there wasn’t, economics would be accountancy.

If an individual is living beyond his means, then yes, cut back on spending. But a country is not an individual. An individual’s income comes from an external source (an employer, customers or the dole) but a country’s income comes from itself mainly. Because of this, when a country cuts spending, it ends up cutting its own income.

This might sound like a contradiction, but it can be explained by simple bit of economics called the multiplier.

In a normal functioning economy, when people have money they spend it. The people they give it to when they spend, also spend it, and so on. The money is shunted on throughout the economy.

When you cut, the opposite occurs. The more we cut, the more the economy will shrink because there is in tandem with the cuts a credit crunch — the banks are bust and interest rates are going up, not down. Obama is probably not spending enough!!