Egypt needs our help now more than ever

[wolfie]

In my view, Egypt is well past the time where help from a third party would be beneficial. Until such time as the hatred among the factions either dies down or ends, the best thing that others can do is document the outrageous activities and hold people to account when the time is right.

The time for the US to help was after the election of Morsi and before he and his henchmen decided to eliminate all inroads to democracy that were developing after the fall of Mubarek. When Obama and his administration decided to sit idly by, continuing to provide funding while watching the hope of a nation crumble, all was lost. A leadership vacuum has led to the situation there now.

Because the population of Egypt are mainly Muslims..it leaves them open to the ranting of radical preachers who want to turn it into a fundamentalist state, they have the idea that if they defy the Imams, they are somehow defying Allah!!

 

[cpwill]

Britain and France aren't rising powers and they weren't since they were empire. Their history is not such as they maintained their position.

In what time period? In the one that was bloodiest between them, England rose to replace France, who then repeated the favor, and back again.

I do not like as well those ideologies but I do not take my gun and pass 2 continents to go there and thrown a regime.
I agree with you that they should be thrown, but I disagree with the fact that always the great powers should be the one to do it.

It's rather hard for rock-chucking protestors to really take on a tank. At some point, a military force is going to have to get involved.

Even in democracy people are forced to live under conditions some do not like and some does.
My country passed a law pro homosexuality because it was a bound condition to continue negotiations to enter the EU. Even tho, more than 90% wouldn't agree on that. There was no referendum, the people will was never in discussion.

:shrug: you'll get no argument from me that the EU is anything but an undemocratic institution designed to impose the ideals of elites on the people whether they like it or not.

Regarding Islamism, many argue for the rights of the women.
C'mon, those people who made those rules,laws or w/e you can call them, have wives and daughters themselves. They chooses to live so.
Why should we interfere on their choices.

For the same reason we should interfere with the choices of people who choose to own slaves.

In ancient times people used to allow marriages from the same tribe, later on from the same religion, same nationality and by ages the world evolved and today the picture is another. It did not came by impose. Ages ago it was called a shame to marry someone from another religion or nationality but people broke up this taboo. They did not made it by impose, nor by war. It came because people were expanded, human relationships & contacts as well and people choose to live different.

That is true. In ancient time, as well, ethnic cleansing and genocide was simply part and parcel of warfare. Today the nations of the world have advanced to the point where they say they are no longer willing to tolerate that - though agreeably they do not always back these words with action.

When CIA brought to power Sadam Hussein, they couldn't impose the democracy because it is impossible to impose the democracy and they can't even now. It should come itself by own people's will.

The CIA did not bring Saddam Hussein to power.

If the democracy came to Japan, it came because Japanese wanted to.

No. Democracy came to Japan because the United States destroyed their navy, invaded Okinawa, burned their cities to the ground, dropped two atomic bombs, and threatened to turn the entire island chain into lifeless ash if they didn't agree to an unconditional surrender; after which we completely took over their government, and literally wrote their Constitution for them before giving self-governance back to them piece by piece over the next three decades. The Japanese at the time were most certainly not desirous of that series of occurrences, and expended many lives in an ultimately vain attempt to keep them from happening.

 

[cpwill]

In my view, Egypt is well past the time where help from a third party would be beneficial. Until such time as the hatred among the factions either dies down or ends, the best thing that others can do is document the outrageous activities and hold people to account when the time is right.

The time for the US to help was after the election of Morsi and before he and his henchmen decided to eliminate all inroads to democracy that were developing after the fall of Mubarek. When Obama and his administration decided to sit idly by, continuing to provide funding while watching the hope of a nation crumble, all was lost. A leadership vacuum has led to the situation there now.

Yup. Egypt and Syria stand as testaments to a world in which America Leads from Behind. How's that Smart Power working out for ya?

 

[MMC]

Yup. Egypt and Syria stand as testaments to a world in which America Leads from Behind. How's that Smart Power working out for ya?

Well.....it wasn't really there in the beginning. To begin with. Either side of the Aisle with our politicians and the ME as well as Asia.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Because the population of Egypt are mainly Muslims..it leaves them open to the ranting of radical preachers who want to turn it into a fundamentalist state, they have the idea that if they defy the Imams, they are somehow defying Allah!!

Radical Muslims as led by the Muslim Brotherhood are not a majority in Egypt, not by a long shot. The only reason Morsi/Mursi was elected was because of the dozens of people/parties running - he got nowhere near a majority of the vote. And when he started to turn Egypt into a fundamentalist Islamic state, the people rose up against him. Egypt is a far more moderate, modern thinking country than a place like Pakistan and it's why it's so important to the west as an ally in the region. Even countries like Saudi Arabia realize this and oppose it moving in more fundementalist ways.

 

[cpwill]

Radical Muslims as led by the Muslim Brotherhood are not a majority in Egypt, not by a long shot. The only reason Morsi/Mursi was elected was because of the dozens of people/parties running - he got nowhere near a majority of the vote.

What portion did the Freedom and Justice Party and the al Nour Party combined get?

 

[CanadaJohn]

Yup. Egypt and Syria stand as testaments to a world in which America Leads from Behind. How's that Smart Power working out for ya?

I hate to say it, but America has lost respect and friends in both Egypt and Syria with the lack of leadership shown by Obama the past several years. America would be better off today had it propped up Mubarek, and that's sad to say.

 

[CanadaJohn]

What portion did the Freedom and Justice Party and the al Nour Party combined get?

In the first vote, 25% Morsi - 24% Shafik - the highest ranking secular candidate. Radical Muslims, including Morsi, got 42% combined, secular candidates 56%.

In the second vote, Morsi beat Shafik 51% to 48% with many boycotting the vote because of irregularities by Morsi's side.

 

[cpwill]

I hate to say it, but America has lost respect and friends in both Egypt and Syria with the lack of leadership shown by Obama the past several years. America would be better off today had it propped up Mubarek, and that's sad to say.

Have you ever read "The Dispensable Nation"? It's from one of the Brains of the Hillary State Department - it basically boils down to "holy crap we have no strategy whatsoever, and that is having disastrous effects".

 

[CanadaJohn]

Have you ever read "The Dispensable Nation"? It's from one of the Brains of the Hillary State Department - it basically boils down to "holy crap we have no strategy whatsoever, and that is having disastrous effects".

No, I haven't - thanks, I'll check it out.

 

[joG]

An op-ed written by former National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft and Eric D.K. Melby who served on the National Security Council staff makes a strong case that the U.S. focus its aid to Egypt with the goal of helping Egypt regain economic and political stability. The op-ed argues that such an outcome is in the interests of the U.S.

Excerpts:

Debating what label to put on the recent events deters from the truly important task: developing a strategy to support the restoration of Egypt’s economic and political stability. President Obama’s call for a reassessment of U.S. aid should focus primarily on how we can help Egypt, rather than on whether we should help...

Egypt remains the most important country in the Arab world because of its history, its population, its economy and its example. Helping it achieve its goals at this critical juncture clearly is in America’s interest and that of the international community. The United States is in a unique position — by virtue of its international influence and time-tested relationship with Egypt — to convene the relevant parties and to stimulate action. It also has a unique responsibility to do so.

Egypt needs our help now more than ever - The Washington Post

IMO, Scowcroft and Melby have made a far more coherent argument than those based on emotional appeals that "democracy" in Egypt was set back and, therefore, the U.S. should suspend assistance. The latter arguments assume that Egypt had become a democracy prior to the recent events. It had not. It held elections, but the deposed President refused to respect separation of powers in unilaterally overriding the nation's high court. He had put the nation on a path of increasing Islamization that ran counter to Egypt's longstanding tradition as a moderate and secular state. Ultimately, what happened in Egypt is strictly an Egyptian affair.

The U.S. can and should play a constructive role in helping Egypt in its period of transition. It should resist the temptation to succumb to emotional appeals that risk damaging U.S. interests with respect to Egypt, interests that are far more compelling and far more critical than anything related to Syria.

I just caught an article that might interest you.

Tarek Osman | The Coming Clash Within the Muslim Brotherhood | Foreign Affairs