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E-9s make me feel like a cheater

Sarcogito

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In my current gig the enlisted rank I am most like to encounter is E-9. It usually a very senior E-9, Like the Command Chief Master Sergeant of AFRICOM, the Command Sergeant Major of US Army Pacific, or even the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps.

These men enlisted when I was just a few years old, or before I was even born, in some cases. They are responsible for the support of tens of thousands of service members. And yet , because I am a warrant officer, they salute me and call me “Sir”. It always makes me feel a bit like a heal and that I somehow cheated. I went warrant officer when I was an E-5 in part because, at the time, it was damn near impossible to make E-6 in my MOS. So as an E-5 I go to a seven week Warrant Officer Candidate School, where I didn’t learn ANYTHING, and graduate outranking the most senior enlisted members of the military.

So is the way we do it and outdated class system?
 

cpwill

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In my current gig the enlisted rank I am most like to encounter is E-9. It usually a very senior E-9, Like the Command Chief Master Sergeant of AFRICOM, the Command Sergeant Major of US Army Pacific, or even the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps.

These men enlisted when I was just a few years old, or before I was even born, in some cases. They are responsible for the support of tens of thousands of service members. And yet , because I am a warrant officer, they salute me and call me “Sir”. It always makes me feel a bit like a heal and that I somehow cheated. I went warrant officer when I was an E-5 in part because, at the time, it was damn near impossible to make E-6 in my MOS. So as an E-5 I go to a seven week Warrant Officer Candidate School, where I didn’t learn ANYTHING, and graduate outranking the most senior enlisted members of the military.

So is the way we do it and outdated class system?

At least you did it the right way. They also have to (well, okay, but yeah, technically) salute 23 year old kids right out of college.
 

Risky Thicket

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In my current gig the enlisted rank I am most like to encounter is E-9. It usually a very senior E-9, Like the Command Chief Master Sergeant of AFRICOM, the Command Sergeant Major of US Army Pacific, or even the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps.

These men enlisted when I was just a few years old, or before I was even born, in some cases. They are responsible for the support of tens of thousands of service members. And yet , because I am a warrant officer, they salute me and call me “Sir”. It always makes me feel a bit like a heal and that I somehow cheated. I went warrant officer when I was an E-5 in part because, at the time, it was damn near impossible to make E-6 in my MOS. So as an E-5 I go to a seven week Warrant Officer Candidate School, where I didn’t learn ANYTHING, and graduate outranking the most senior enlisted members of the military.

So is the way we do it and outdated class system?

It is still the US military and you do/did have a choice, as do other service members including NCOs. Your salute respects the rank - and it goes both ways. I doubt E-8s or E-9s feel slighted. No one doubts their experience, skill or authority.
 

Ford289HiPo

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In my current gig the enlisted rank I am most like to encounter is E-9. It usually a very senior E-9, Like the Command Chief Master Sergeant of AFRICOM, the Command Sergeant Major of US Army Pacific, or even the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps.

These men enlisted when I was just a few years old, or before I was even born, in some cases. They are responsible for the support of tens of thousands of service members. And yet , because I am a warrant officer, they salute me and call me “Sir”. It always makes me feel a bit like a heal and that I somehow cheated. I went warrant officer when I was an E-5 in part because, at the time, it was damn near impossible to make E-6 in my MOS. So as an E-5 I go to a seven week Warrant Officer Candidate School, where I didn’t learn ANYTHING, and graduate outranking the most senior enlisted members of the military.

So is the way we do it and outdated class system?


Don't sweat it. I have met an awful lot of stupid E-9's in my time in the military. I expected more from them, maybe too much.

As for you reaching the WO level, you should have been considered an expert in your field prior to attending WOCS. As a Technician, you were expected to bridge the gap between the NCO's and the O's. I have seen a lot of troops go the WO route because of high cutoff scores instead of re-classing.
 

Surtr

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In my current gig the enlisted rank I am most like to encounter is E-9. It usually a very senior E-9, Like the Command Chief Master Sergeant of AFRICOM, the Command Sergeant Major of US Army Pacific, or even the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps.

These men enlisted when I was just a few years old, or before I was even born, in some cases. They are responsible for the support of tens of thousands of service members. And yet , because I am a warrant officer, they salute me and call me “Sir”. It always makes me feel a bit like a heal and that I somehow cheated. I went warrant officer when I was an E-5 in part because, at the time, it was damn near impossible to make E-6 in my MOS. So as an E-5 I go to a seven week Warrant Officer Candidate School, where I didn’t learn ANYTHING, and graduate outranking the most senior enlisted members of the military.

So is the way we do it and outdated class system?

It's just the way it is. My Platoon Leader was younger than me, and had little to no real life experience. It didn't bother me to salute him, or any officer (some were real douchebags) because you aren't saluting the man, you're saluting the rank and position.
 

Goshin

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Often wondered if there ought to be a requirement to do 4 years as enlisted before being eligible for officer. :shrug:


But, on the pragmatic side, that might cut into recruitment from college grads...
 

notquiteright

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Often wondered if there ought to be a requirement to do 4 years as enlisted before being eligible for officer. :shrug:


But, on the pragmatic side, that might cut into recruitment from college grads...

Course with the cost of a college education being what it is and sure to continue to climb perhaps a joint ROTC/National Guard package would be attractive. they are at least doing 4 years worth of weekends and two months total federal service as an enlisted man prior to an act of Congress making them a gentleman... ;)
 

Ford289HiPo

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Often wondered if there ought to be a requirement to do 4 years as enlisted before being eligible for officer. :shrug:

That would be a good idea. At least the "new" Lt would have some actual experience under his/her belt vs the ROTC/West Point commando.
 

Wiseone

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At least you did it the right way. They also have to (well, okay, but yeah, technically) salute 23 year old kids right out of college.

I'm 25 now but you're god damn right you do, and don't think you can do the "turn and burn" where you see LT coming and immediately conduct a right face and power walk off as fast as you can as if you were always headed in that direction.

I will remember you.
I will find you.
And I will get what I'm due.
 

Sarcogito

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I'm 25 now but you're god damn right you do, and don't think you can do the "turn and burn" where you see LT coming and immediately conduct a right face and power walk off as fast as you can as if you were always headed in that direction.

I will remember you.
I will find you.
And I will get what I'm due.

Even if it means you have to drop everything else on your to-do list for the day to track his enlisted ass down. ;)
 

Thrilla

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I'm 25 now but you're god damn right you do, and don't think you can do the "turn and burn" where you see LT coming and immediately conduct a right face and power walk off as fast as you can as if you were always headed in that direction.

I will remember you.
I will find you.
And I will get what I'm due.
saluting is a two way street...enlisted are simply required to salute first

We a boot LT come on board back in the mid 70's.. the man liked to be saluted and let everyone know it was their duty to do so.(which is typical junior officer behavior)
our CWO4 (gunner) had us walk to formation one morning when the LT was walking our way for phone watch... we lined up 10 paces apart for the half mile walk.
by the time he reached the duty hut, he had his salute from each and every Marine.... and of course, he had to return each and every salute.
we continued to harass him for months.... if there were 3 of us walking, we would fall back into line so we all could salute him...and receive our salute in return.

he kinda lost his zeal for saluting after returning thousands of salutes a day...

junior officers are usually intelligent, but it takes some time to train them up right. :lol:



as an senior enlisted Marine, i had no problem saluting junior officers, even butterbars... but lord almighty, the salute they return me better be sat or I'll stand there all ****ing day and instruct the officer on proper saluting technique and etiquette.
 

Wiseone

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Honestly I almost never correct Soldiers who fail to salute, in the 3 years I've been in the military I've done it maybe once or twice. Most times I just don't care, or I know them so we have a more familiar basis. Not that people fail to salute me very often anyway. Especially when I used to smoke, I never liked making everyone around the butt can try to fumble their cig into their left hand so they could salute with their right, and I hated doing that myself to return a salute if I was the one there smoking and someone else was walking up. My unwritten rule was no saluting while smoking, but hey if you're my Soldier and you give me a "morning, sir" or even "what's up, sir" thats good enough for me.

In my limited experience I've found that constantly correcting Soldiers for small issues makes them less likely to pay attention when I actually have something important to correct them on, and when my superiors are constantly correcting everything I do, especially when it doesn't really matter, it just makes me less likely to listen.
 

Thrilla

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In my current gig the enlisted rank I am most like to encounter is E-9. It usually a very senior E-9, Like the Command Chief Master Sergeant of AFRICOM, the Command Sergeant Major of US Army Pacific, or even the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps.

These men enlisted when I was just a few years old, or before I was even born, in some cases. They are responsible for the support of tens of thousands of service members. And yet , because I am a warrant officer, they salute me and call me “Sir”. It always makes me feel a bit like a heal and that I somehow cheated. I went warrant officer when I was an E-5 in part because, at the time, it was damn near impossible to make E-6 in my MOS. So as an E-5 I go to a seven week Warrant Officer Candidate School, where I didn’t learn ANYTHING, and graduate outranking the most senior enlisted members of the military.

So is the way we do it and outdated class system?

you didn't cheat.. you just took a different track.... so stow that trash and be proud of your rank and position.

I put in for WO candidate as a Ssgt...turned it down when I was accepted.
when I got by degree, my CO put me in for OCS.. I told him to rescind when I found out about it.
I was doing exactly what I wanted to do... promoting into WO or officer ranks would have ****ed it all up for me.

we agree on the outdated class/rank structure though.. it's largely bull****.
most of the time , I would get pissed at the rank privileges outside of the duty areas... such as us enlisted having to eat in a sloppy chow hall, while officers are dining in the o-club served on linen tablecloths,with wine glasses and chinaware.
the one thing that sticks out in my mind the most was on my 2nd or 3rd pump to Okinawa ( Camp Hansen).. while a fine young marine ( me) was walking back from Kinville drunk as **** and wobbling to and fro.. I meandered through "officer country" and was soon accosted by some young officers telling me I wasn't welcome in that AO.
it bugged me at first, but i soon came to the realization that he was right.. I was not of the "gentlemen" caliber... I was off the lower class of being.
so I lived up to my part as a lesser being and took a nice long piss in the communal officer BBQ pit...very ungentlemanly behavior, if i do say so myself.:lol:
 

Thrilla

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Honestly I almost never correct Soldiers who fail to salute, in the 3 years I've been in the military I've done it maybe once or twice. Most times I just don't care, or I know them so we have a more familiar basis. Not that people fail to salute me very often anyway. Especially when I used to smoke, I never liked making everyone around the butt can try to fumble their cig into their left hand so they could salute with their right, and I hated doing that myself to return a salute if I was the one there smoking and someone else was walking up. My unwritten rule was no saluting while smoking, but hey if you're my Soldier and you give me a "morning, sir" or even "what's up, sir" thats good enough for me.

In my limited experience I've found that constantly correcting Soldiers for small issues makes them less likely to pay attention when I actually have something important to correct them on, and when my superiors are constantly correcting everything I do, especially when it doesn't really matter, it just makes me less likely to listen.

I've worked for many officers like you... y'all are more of the " get the job done" sort rather than the " pomp and circumstance" sort.
I approve, even though both sorts are important and useful.
 

Wiseone

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I've worked for many officers like you... y'all are more of the " get the job done" sort rather than the " pomp and circumstance" sort.
I approve, even though both sorts are important and useful.

Today I had a conversation with this major I work with/for about an open window in one of our working areas, it went something like this:

Him: Hey why is this window open.
Me: Oh well I guess someone left it open when we were talking through it, sir.
Him: Ya well you know when you leave the window open it it lets the cold air out.
Me: Well its pretty cool out I guess no one noticed.
Him: Ya well you know some people like the cold air and your letting out.
Me: Roger sir I got it.
Him: Ya make sure you do.
Me: Yes sir.

Then I turned around to finish the SIGACT, significant action report, I was working on and he sits stands there and waits for me to make sure I close it. Guy always talk to everyone like they're retarded, real slow and with rising tones on his words like a valley girl, drives me nuts. I basically have a conversation like every day with this dude.
 

Surtr

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I'm 25 now but you're god damn right you do, and don't think you can do the "turn and burn" where you see LT coming and immediately conduct a right face and power walk off as fast as you can as if you were always headed in that direction.

I will remember you.
I will find you.
And I will get what I'm due.

We used to have a similar game. Spot the officers skipping heavy traffic areas to avoid having to return bushels of salutes, and ambush them so they would have to salute.
 

fmw

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It seems to me that arrogance is as unbecoming an officer as it is anyone else. The goal of the officer, or any private sector manager for that matter, should be to gain respect for the man, not just the rank.
 

RabidAlpaca

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In my current gig the enlisted rank I am most like to encounter is E-9. It usually a very senior E-9, Like the Command Chief Master Sergeant of AFRICOM, the Command Sergeant Major of US Army Pacific, or even the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps.

These men enlisted when I was just a few years old, or before I was even born, in some cases. They are responsible for the support of tens of thousands of service members. And yet , because I am a warrant officer, they salute me and call me “Sir”. It always makes me feel a bit like a heal and that I somehow cheated. I went warrant officer when I was an E-5 in part because, at the time, it was damn near impossible to make E-6 in my MOS. So as an E-5 I go to a seven week Warrant Officer Candidate School, where I didn’t learn ANYTHING, and graduate outranking the most senior enlisted members of the military.

So is the way we do it and outdated class system?

I always though that was kinda dumb. A seasoned E-9 calling a freckle faced, 22 year old lieutenant "sir". After the formalities though, there's a kind of unseen rank structure where the E-9 still outranks the O-1. Just let an O-1 try to pull rank on the CSM. See how well that turns out for him. :D
 

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I always though that was kinda dumb. A seasoned E-9 calling a freckle faced, 22 year old lieutenant "sir". After the formalities though, there's a kind of unseen rank structure where the E-9 still outranks the O-1. Just let an O-1 try to pull rank on the CSM. See how well that turns out for him. :D
IMO an E-9 calling a Lt sir is just the nature of the beast. At least the E-9 still gets paid more than an O-1, O-2, and young O-3s. And E-9's have more responsibilities, higher leadership roles, and privileges (sometimes on par with O-6s on occasion).
 

Captain Adverse

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I don't feel all that qualified to speak about current trends in the military, since it's been over 20 years since I served in the U.S. Army

I served 2 years as a enlisted man, and then 8 more after O.C.S. as an officer, and I can say that most of my experiences with senior NCO's (E-8 and E-9) were very positive. Once in a while they could be grumpy, but who wouldn't be after dealing with Field Grade and General Grade officers on a daily basis? :)

Not once did they ever display any rancor at saluting me as a newbie 2LT. Instead they always treated me with utmost respect (which I automatically returned as their due), and happily showed me the ropes helping me over rough spots in the newly-minted officer learning curve. By the time I became a Captain I had excellent working relationships with any I came across.

During my own enlisted period it never crossed my mind to resent saluting any officer, it was just a sign of respect for the rank.

So I wouldn't be uncomfortable if I were you. Just recall the period when you were an E-5 and saluted Warrants that you came across, it's the same thing only in reverse now.
 

Capster78

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In my current gig the enlisted rank I am most like to encounter is E-9. It usually a very senior E-9, Like the Command Chief Master Sergeant of AFRICOM, the Command Sergeant Major of US Army Pacific, or even the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps.

These men enlisted when I was just a few years old, or before I was even born, in some cases. They are responsible for the support of tens of thousands of service members. And yet , because I am a warrant officer, they salute me and call me “Sir”. It always makes me feel a bit like a heal and that I somehow cheated. I went warrant officer when I was an E-5 in part because, at the time, it was damn near impossible to make E-6 in my MOS. So as an E-5 I go to a seven week Warrant Officer Candidate School, where I didn’t learn ANYTHING, and graduate outranking the most senior enlisted members of the military.

So is the way we do it and outdated class system?

I think it is outdated. That is one thing the civilian sector has done much better than we have in the military is to get rid of the workforce hierarchy. We should change to a system that promotes based on performance and not on entitlement. Expirience is, I agree, an important factor in the military. I would take the advice of an 13 year E-5 over a 8 year E-6 or a 20 something lieutenant. But, we should not give away stripes to people just because they have been in so long that if they walk into the testing room and can breathe, they can make the next rank.
 
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