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Whatever. I'm angry because I expect better of you guys, not because I hate the military.
Can you just admit that it's a professionalism issue, without all the secondary and tertiary justifications?
If it isn't homophobia or prejudice and a lack of professionalism, tell me what, exactly, about gays serving openly would cause problems in the military.
Perhaps. They were very enthusiastic with non-judicial, non-Article 15, off-the-books motivational in-house punishment. The big ****ing E-5 Samoan was a big problem. He used to jump us and put us in sleeper holds on the line. They gang-raped a squad mate with a broom.
Yeah, I spent 12 years in an infantry unit. Served in Panama, Desert Storm, Korea and Kosovo. What could I possibly know about the subject...:rofl
Every combat arms vet on this forum is telling you how you're wrong, but we just hate gays? Is that it?
You need to enlist. Go help change the system.
Obviously, he misunderstood what I said, too.
Let me say it again, the IDF hasn't been in a pitched battle, since the gay ban was lifted in 1993. Certainly nothing like the '67 war, The Yom Kippur War, or the War in Lebanon during the 80's.
they haven't been in a prolonged fight, since they lifted the ban in 1993
I agree that a massive war such as the 67' or the 73' wars were not seen in the area, but the first Lebanon war (that started in the early 80's) has ended 7 years after the ban was lifted, and it was the most prolonged war in Israel's history, way more than the six days of the six-day war, for example.
Do you think the US should allow gays to serve openly, and do you think it will effect unit cohesion and morale for us here? You are kinda a voice of experience.
Also....why did I think you where much older?
I agree that a massive war such as the 67' or the 73' wars were not seen in the area, but the first Lebanon war (that started in the early 80's) has ended 7 years after the ban was lifted, and it was the most prolonged war in Israel's history, way more than the six days of the six-day war, for example.
So then why isn't the issue "you can be gay, but you can't do your colleagues," rather than "you can't serve and be openly gay" or "you can't serve if you're gay?"
Administrative problems.....
That is the issue....thus they are looking into the matter. We all know that gays are going to be able to openly serve in the near future. The big whigs want to be able to have a solid procedure in place for dealing with male/male female/female sexual harassment, how to handle inter-unit relationships in regards to combat units who sleep, eat, work, train, fight, and pretty much live with each other all the time. (not this individual barracks room bull**** in non-combat units where you only have to work with your co-workers). Its these types of issues that they need to work on figuring out.
The prejudice is also very much reduced from what it has been. It is much much less of a problem than it has been even 10 years ago, let alone from when I served.
That gave me a good chuckle. Thank you.
Like I stated, professionalism is following policy.
What you are suggesting is that the military should decide on its own to defy the policies set by the Clinton White House and you wish to label this activity "professionalism."
Hell, yeah it has. This is why the banning of DADT won't be the issue some believe it will be. I came in in 1992, having been raised in the Marine Corps (father retired in 2000.) Homosexuality has always been described as disgusting and without masculinity in these circles. Today, after being bombarded with "gay pride" and so on, it's merely a dismissing topic. Most of us don't see it as something that has to be allowed. We simply donot care.
The military is merely preparing for the inevitable. The problem willnot be the gays. It will be the hardcore traditionalists throughout the rank structure who continue to hold strong anti-gay opinions. The same thing happened with the issues of women and blacks.
Administrative problems.....
Professionalism also means being able to shelve your personal feelings in order to get a job done. He who is unable to do so is unable to call himself a professional.
No, what I am suggesting is that the President and Congress should decide to rescind those policies, or that a judge should decide that they're unlawful, and that you guys should have to live with that. No more studies (they've already been done), no more debates (they've already been had), no more mealy-mouthed bull**** about unit cohesion (prohibit disruptive relationships, no matter the gender or orientation involved).
I agree that a massive war such as the 67' or the 73' wars were not seen in the area, but the first Lebanon war (that started in the early 80's) has ended 7 years after the ban was lifted, and it was the most prolonged war in Israel's history, way more than the six days of the six-day war, for example.
Here is the fact: The military has never conducted a study to see and prepare for life post DADT.
No, what I am suggesting is that the President and Congress should decide to rescind those policies, or that a judge should decide that they're unlawful, and that you guys should have to live with that. No more studies (they've already been done), no more debates (they've already been had), no more mealy-mouthed bull**** about unit cohesion (prohibit disruptive relationships, no matter the gender or orientation involved).
Aheemmm they have been studying the issue of gays in the millitary for some time:
1.In 1957, the secretary of the navy appointed a panel to investigate its homosexual exclusion policy. The outcome, known as the Crittenden report, stated that “the number of cases of blackmail as a result of past investigations of homosexuals in negligible” and “no factual data exist to support the contention that homosexuals are a greater risk than heterosexuals.”i
What Does the Empirical Research Say about the Impact of Openly Gay Service on the Military? | Palm Center
Thank you for making me feel old...I got out a year after you went in...
Rape, assault, fraternization, assault and billeting.
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