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Donald Trump: Don't change abortion laws

cpwill said:
The Vietnamese didn't get freedom and they didn't get independence- they got conquered. They got murderous tyrany and ethnic cleansing. The hippies weren't right - they were siding with Communists. I don't see any difference between them and BLM rioters, other than you're quicker to excuse the actions of those in a cause you identify with. Those who set fire to buildings and attack security/first responders deserve it if they get shot for it.
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What the **** ?!?!?

The hippies weren't siding with communists, they were siding with isolationists MAYBE.
 
cpwill said:
The Vietnamese didn't get freedom and they didn't get independence- they got conquered. They got murderous tyrany and ethnic cleansing. The hippies weren't right - they were siding with Communists. I don't see any difference between them and BLM rioters, other than you're quicker to excuse the actions of those in a cause you identify with. Those who set fire to buildings and attack security/first responders deserve it if they get shot for it.
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They were protesting the war. They were protesting the draft.
They were protesting the fact that so many of their peers, schoolmates, friends and relatives were losing their lives in war that many/most felt was none of the US's business.

BTW:
The building was burned on May 2.

The shooting took place 2 days later on May 4 when those responsible for the burned building were most likely long gone.

The ROTC building, that was burned [on the evening of Saturday, May 2]. Nobody was ever arrested, nor were they ever convicted, no students whatsoever; it’s still a mystery about who burned it down. Did students try to burn it down? Yes they did. People from all over the country tried to burn down ROTC buildings, but it didn’t result in killings. That’s why it’s hard to tell the story, because you see these images, the burned-out ROTC building, and what do you see? Guardsmen guarding it. That’s what we saw Sunday. People came by and would bring their babies in baby carriages to see the remains to see what “these whippersnappers” were doing, and that became the excuse for killing people two days later … so we have this very complicated story that people like to tell in a linear fashion and show causation. You had this, therefore that. It doesn’t work that way; it isn’t that kind of a story because some of the folks that were there on Friday were not there on Monday [May 4 for the rally], like myself. [Barbato had planned on going but was persuaded against it by a public address professor.]“To this day I think ‘what if I did go?’ ‘It could have been me.’ I knew Sandy [Schreuer]. We were both taking classes at music and speech, she was walking to class going to a midterm exam when she was shot in the neck.”
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May 4, 1970: The Kent State University shootings told through pictures (PHOTOS).

And ...
One of the girls killed was just walking to class when she was shot in neck.
 
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I completely agree. Trump has not thought out the abortion issue. Its not even a blip on his radar. Trump wont do anything about abortion. The question asked of him was a setup question based on the presumption that the law had already been changed.
 
minnie616 said:
They were protesting the war. They were protesting the draft.
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Odd how they kept confusing the phrase "I don't approve of a national draft to fight non existential threats" with "Ho Ho Ho Chih Minh, NLF Is Gonna Win". :thinking:
 
cpwill said:
Odd how they kept confusing the phrase "I don't approve of a national draft to fight non existential threats" with "Ho Ho Ho Chih Minh, NLF Is Gonna Win". :thinking:
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Never heard that phase. And I was attending a community college in 1970.
Several of my classmates, neighbors, and relatives fought and some died in the Vietnam war.
 
cpwill said:
Odd how they kept confusing the phrase "I don't approve of a national draft to fight non existential threats" with "Ho Ho Ho Chih Minh, NLF Is Gonna Win". :thinking:
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Is this some mythical "they" so you can justify those particular kids getting killed because some kids somewhere supposedly chanted those words, or is there something specific you know about the protesters at Kent St. who were killed that you're not telling us.

I doubt it's the latter. Not recognizing the famous photo and thinking out loud it was faked while not noticing the river of blood behind the dead kid's head means you haven't spent more than a few minutes studying the Kent St. massacre.
 
I guess I missed this Minnie, but thanks.

So.....keep abortion laws 'as is,' even tho it's (in his belief) murder?

Well, I'm not a hypocrite so he is more than welcome to his personal beliefs as long as he does not try to force them on other people.

LOL, the GOP is gonna love this.
 
cpwill said:
Just to point out - those were hippies, not people.


And, while this may be "iconic" or something, from a position of someone who hasn't seen it before, that photo looks rather staged. Everyone is just standing around, looking kinda "whatever" with the one female kneeling dramatically in the "Why God Why" pose. No blood around the victim, nor obvious exit wounds anywhere in the torso, head, or legs.
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You've never seen that pic before??? Wow. How old are you? (not being condescending)

It is iconic. It's like the naked little girl running burned from napalm, it's like the soldier kissing the nurse after the end of WW2.

It's not remotely posed. and btw, from being a park ranger in Central Park, I've seen several dead bodies, including those shot and they look just like that...vulnerable, awkward, and not necessarily with blood visible.
 
cpwill said:
The Vietnamese didn't get freedom and they didn't get independence- they got conquered. They got murderous tyrany and ethnic cleansing. The hippies weren't right - they were siding with Communists. I don't see any difference between them and BLM rioters, other than you're quicker to excuse the actions of those in a cause you identify with. Those who set fire to buildings and attack security/first responders deserve it if they get shot for it.
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The Vietnamese got the west out of their country after centuries of colonial rule. Sound familiar? That is what they wanted so who were we to say otherwise? We invaded them when they did nothing to hurt us. They just wanted a Govt. that didn't speak FRENCH and that was their "crime". They are no more Communist than China and have become a U.S. ally in the Pacific. Your hatred of the Vietnamese people is duly noted. They are a proud and hard working people who have developed strong nationalism after be abused by colonial powers for generations...and there are 2 flights a day to Ho Chi Min City from LAX.
 
cpwill said:
It is found in the inherent rights of others. For example, the state has the right to tell my wife that she cannot use her body to operate a vehicle while intoxicated, or murder the neighbors in their sleep. The state has the right to protect others' Rights from our exercise of our own.

We even go a step further when we do things like criminalize methamphetamine and heroin; telling people what they can and cannot put into their bodies.
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Please prove that there are inherent rights.

I disagree, they are a completely man-made concept.

If you cant prove they exist inherently in humans, I suggest using an argument less personal and with a more solid, supportable (legally) foundation.
 
cpwill said:
The rights of the child. This is why this debate comes down to whether or not you consider an unborn human child to be... well, a human child, or not. If it is a child, then it possesses inalienable human rights, meaning that it cannot have it's life taken from it except in the most extreme of circumstances. If it isn't a human child, then we have more freedom to kill it (as we would an animal) without consequence.
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Who says the unborn have inalienable human rights? Who?

Of course it's human. It's an 'unborn' child...it's not accurate without the qualifier.
 
minnie616 said:
Head shots? Do you really think the guards aimed to kill?
I don't think the Guards shot to kill nor that they were going after individuals.
I believe one of the guardsmen got nervous, pulled the trigger, others heard the gunfire and fired into the crowd.
4 were killed many more were injured.
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The reports at the time said that they believed they were being overwhelmed by the protestors who were throwing rocks, etc. They were young, poorly trained, and scared. And when one shot, others panicked and did the same.
 
yes and how has that worked for the republican party in national elections,not very well,equating a woman's right to choose with a DWI is a stretch to say the least.
sorry man you are not making the trip here,the state has no business telling a woman what to do with her body,it is between her and her GOD,not the state.

run don run
 
cpwill said:
Just to point out - those were hippies, not people. And, while this may be "iconic" or something, from a position of someone who hasn't seen it before, that photo looks rather staged. Everyone is just standing around, looking kinda "whatever" with the one female kneeling dramatically in the "Why God Why" pose. No blood around the victim, nor obvious exit wounds anywhere in the torso, head, or legs.
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I have disagreed with you from time to time, but this time you are way over the line. These 'hippies' are college students, they are human, have moms and dads just like jaded jarheads. Photos tend to freeze the 'action' so people appear to 'just stand around' but i'd imagine many civilians you know would be in rather stunned shock if the No-Gos fired up their friends... oh wait, you only know steely eyed combat vets... :roll:

The 'staged' dead guy is infact Jeff Miller and the photo isn't staged- to even think that says volumes about your bias... :doh

You might want to do a bit of research before commenting- perhaps save you from a few ignorant comments... :peace
 
minnie616 said:
Now Donald Trump says , "don't change abortion laws."

It seems to me like Trump has not thought the abortion issue out.



From CBS news



Read more:

Donald Trump: Don't change abortion laws - Election 2016 - CBS News


From CNN:



Donald Trump says federal laws should not be changed to outlaw abortion - CNNPolitics.com
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It has been his position all along, let the States decide so long as they stay within the confines already determined which is abortion up to around 20 weeks and very limited after that, going beyond that ends up in the SC where it dies every time and will continue to do so. Why would any one be surprised at his actual stand, he is after all a Democrat.
 
JasperL said:
Is this some mythical "they" so you can justify those particular kids getting killed because some kids somewhere supposedly chanted those words, or is there something specific you know about the protesters at Kent St. who were killed that you're not telling us.
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No, we were discussing the "anti-War"/"Pro-North Vietnam" movement.

I doubt it's the latter. Not recognizing the famous photo and thinking out loud it was faked while not noticing the river of blood behind the dead kid's head means you haven't spent more than a few minutes studying the Kent St. massacre.
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:shrug: broadly I haven't.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Just who is it you think "conquered" Vietnam?
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Sheila Jackson Lee, is that you?

What, did you stop paying attention after 1972?

And, is that what the students at Kent State were doing, attacking security and first responders? Really?
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:shrug: if you disagree that hurling rocks is assault, let's meet up. I'll throw rocks at you until you agree you are being physically damaged.
 
Lursa said:
You've never seen that pic before??? Wow. How old are you? (not being condescending)
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32. :)

It's not remotely posed. and btw, from being a park ranger in Central Park, I've seen several dead bodies, including those shot and they look just like that...vulnerable, awkward, and not necessarily with blood visible.
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:shrug: whenever I've seen people who were shot, it was usually pretty obvious they'd been shot. Another poster pointed out that the faint line behind the body is the blood trail, rather clearing that up.
 
JasperL said:
And the protesters weren't necessarily siding with the communists any more than people protesting the Iraq war were "siding" with Saddam and his brutal regime.
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Could you tell me whose name protesters are chanting in the last bit of this video? I understand it was rather popular with the people who weren't necessarily siding with the communists, but can't quite make it out.




Additionally, do you happen to know what country these pictures were taken in? I swear that lady looks familiar.

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