Don Lemon from CNN gives advice to youths in the black community

[opendebate]

Do you think most of the black people in prison are not guilty?

What did I say that could have POSSIBLY lead you there?

There are lot's of guilty young white men and lot's of guilty young black men. However, a young black man is more likely to be arrested for the same behavior (due to racial profiling) and more likely to be incarcerated for longer then a white male that commits the same crime (due to inequities in the judicial system) Again, this is not to say that they no responsibility to do better. But things should be equal from the start if you want fair results.

 

[LowDown]

These are not excuses these are conditions. Real conditions. Do you feel this way about the women's movement? Pull your head out of the sand and stop trying to make things so simple, and realize that there is not ONE reason things are in the mess they are, there are many. Racism being one of them.

Yes, well we've been talking about and doing things about white racism against blacks for many years. Perhaps it is time to turn to some of the other problems in a serious fashion for a change.

 

[opendebate]

Yes, many blacks do have additional obstacles. So do many hispanics, Asians and poor whites. Poverty is an obstacle that is color blind. Lemon came from poverty, raised by an unwed mother, and he's trying to tell young black men that even so it is possible to make better lives for themselves.

When I was a young woman back in the day, women weren't exactly chattel, but they were openly harassed sexually in the workplace, they were employed only in menial positions, paid less than men doing the same work, couldn't think of applying for a job in a "male" workplace, etc. We were in every way "victims" of institutionalized sex discrimination. Still, we fought for independence, fairness, changes in the laws, and things are much better for women now. Well, things are much better for blacks than they were back in the same day.

Perfect? No. More that needs to accomplish between the races... and the sexes, for that matter? Absolutely. We've a long way to go to bridge the racial divide in this country. Lemon's message to black youth and the black community that they have to take responsibility for their own future is a great message. He should be applauded for that.

I am not denying any of that. But you are implying that the playing field is equal enough and I just don't buy that.

 

[Josie]

What did I say that could have POSSIBLY lead you there?

"Inequities in the judicial system". Many people think that a lot of black people have been wrongly accused and put into prison simply because they're black. I was just curious if that's where you were going with that.

There are lot's of guilty young white men and lot's of guilty young black men. However, a young black man is more likely to be arrested for the same behavior (due to racial profiling) and more likely to be incarcerated for longer then a white male that commits the same crime (due to inequities in the judicial system) Again, this is not to say that they no responsibility to do better. But things should be equal from the start if you want fair results.

I agree that some racial profiling exists. That's one place where we need to improve.

 

[Woodman909]

OMG!!! He broke the Code! Doesn't he know he has to propagate the idea that non-whites are downtrodden and must be drawn to the trough by the likes of Sharpton, Jackson, Holder and Obama??? He's in for it now!!!!

 

[samsmart]

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[video]http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2013/07/27/nr-lemon-no-talking-points.cnn.html[/video]

Thank you, Don.

Where he erred was in saying that that was his advice to young African-American men.

What he should have done was direct that advice at everybody.

 

[DiAnna]

What did I say that could have POSSIBLY lead you there?

There are lot's of guilty young white men and lot's of guilty young black men. However, a young black man is more likely to be arrested for the same behavior (due to racial profiling) and more likely to be incarcerated for longer then a white male that commits the same crime (due to inequities in the judicial system) Again, this is not to say that they no responsibility to do better. But things should be equal from the start if you want fair results.

I most certainly agree with this. Racial inequities in the justice system not only exist, but they are factually documented, and backed by statistical evidence.

 

[DiAnna]

I am not denying any of that. But you are implying that the playing field is equal enough and I just don't buy that.

Then I expressed myself poorly, because that is not at all what I meant to imply.

 

[Josie]

I am not denying any of that. But you are implying that the playing field is equal enough and I just don't buy that.

A black man was elected President of the United States twice. There are laws against discriminating against people based on skin color. Are there still idiots that treat people different based on their race? Of course. There always will be...and they aren't just white people. But, by and large, anyone can make it in America if you work hard and discipline yourself.

 

[opendebate]

Yes, well we've been talking about and doing things about white racism against blacks for many years. Perhaps it is time to turn to some of the other problems in a serious fashion for a change.

I don't disagree with that. I think the efforts we have made have clearly been abysmal failures. That does not mean you abandon the effort, it means you do it better.

 

[opendebate]

"Inequities in the judicial system". Many people think that a lot of black people have been wrongly accused and put into prison simply because they're black. I was just curious if that's where you were going with that.

Well, no. I do not believe that anyone has been thrown in prison just because of their skin color. That seems pretty extreme.

I agree that some racial profiling exists. That's one place where we need to improve.

It's staggering really. We know prison does not reform people. So what if instead of taking kids, black or white, who are arrested on drug charges or some other minor charge and they were placed in a facility where they received counseling and maybe vocational training, or had to complete high school or ....

 

[opendebate]

Then I expressed myself poorly, because that is not at all what I meant to imply.

Or I'm all fired up and jumped the gun. :doh

 

[DiAnna]

It's staggering really. We know prison does not reform people. So what if instead of taking kids, black or white, who are arrested on drug charges or some other minor charge and they were placed in a facility where they received counseling and maybe vocational training, or had to complete high school or ....

Not to open another can of worms (as I cheerfully reach for the can opener), but if drugs were legal, regulated and taxed, there would be enough money to fund such programs and voluntary treatment centers as well. Prison overcrowding would be a thing of the past!

/derail :lol:

 

[opendebate]

A black man was elected President of the United States twice. There are laws against discriminating against people based on skin color. Are there still idiots that treat people different based on their race? Of course. There always will be...and they aren't just white people. But, by and large, anyone can make it in America if you work hard and discipline yourself.

True, a black man was elected twice. Which is evidence for progress not that the problem has been eliminated. And, there are laws against many things and they all still happen. Law alone is not enough.

It is a nice story to tell our kids that anyone can make it. But it is not true and it is getting further and further out of reach for many people. I know lots of people who have worked very hard all their lives and manage only to keep their heads above water. Stating that anyone can make it if they work hard enough and are disciplined enough implies that if they don't make it it means they didn't work hard enough or were not disciplined enough. Just not so.

 

[greyhat]

It's staggering really. We know prison does not reform people. So what if instead of taking kids, black or white, who are arrested on drug charges or some other minor charge and they were placed in a facility where they received counseling and maybe vocational training, or had to complete high school or ....

You totally missed the point- that is don't get in that predicament IN THE FIRST PLACE. There are vocational programs in jails; that's no the solution per se, the solution is getting people to behave more responsibly for themselves and their kin.

 

[opendebate]

Not to open another can of worms (as I cheerfully reach for the can opener), but if drugs were legal, regulated and taxed, there would be enough money to fund such programs and voluntary treatment centers as well.

/derail :lol:

Can of worms officially opened!! I agree. I think it's a little hypocritical in a country where everyone screams about maintaining their freedoms. " It's my business if I want to ride my motorcycle without a helmet" "It's my business if I chose to have a gun in my home" Implying that they have a right to expose THEMSELVES to whatever risks they chose....fight so vehemently to keep people from exposing themselves to the risks, of all things, of marijuana.

 

[opendebate]

You totally missed the point- that is don't get in that predicament IN THE FIRST PLACE. There are vocational programs in jails; that's no the solution per se, the solution is getting people to behave more responsibly for themselves and their kin.

That's only a PART of the solution. Also, how do you do that exactly?

 

[greyhat]

That's only a PART of the solution. Also, how do you do that exactly?

Who said there weren't multiple parts? Don Lemon's points were good and honest. I'd say step #1 is to stop being a victim and pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

You can't forget the past but you shouldn't let the past hold you back either.

 

[opendebate]

Who said there weren't multiple parts? Don Lemon's points were good and honest. I'd say step #1 is to stop being a victim and pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

You can't forget the past but you shouldn't let the past hold you back either.

Lemon's points were good and honest I was just making the point that it only addresses part of the problem.

But honestly, is it fair to say stop being a being if you are in fact a victim?

 

[greyhat]

Lemon's points were good and honest I was just making the point that it only addresses part of the problem.

But honestly, is it fair to say stop being a being if you are in fact a victim?

When do you stop being a victim? 1,2,3,4,10,15 generations later??

 

[opendebate]

When do you stop being a victim? 1,2,3,4,10,15 generations later??

Meaning that you need to first stop being victimized first. Pointing out your oppressor isn't the same thing. If you do not see that someone is being victimized then when they saying anything you will think they are playing the victim. But what if they actually are being victimized. Doesn't that change things?

 

[Superfly]

There are no victims. There is no excuse whatsoever for people finding themselves in the situations they are in, except for themselves. Good grief, this is silly. How long are we going to blame something that happened 150 years ago for people being oppressed. Anybody can do anything they want, they just have to want to put the effort in, and no one does. It's too easy for people to expect the government to take care of them, and WHY try if they don't have to? I used to know a 45 year old white lady. She'd been living in public housing for 10 years, happily. She was relatively young, and healthy. She had no reason for being there, other than the fact that it was far easier to sleep 'til noon and cash that check from Uncle Sam every week, than to have to get up at 5 in the morning and hit a job every week. She had absolutely no intention of leaving. I asked her one day why she stayed there, and she said, "Why not?"

There are no victims. Everyone can do better for themselves, no matter what. They just have to want to. Problem is, too many people (white AND black) don't want to, and for that, they have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

These are not excuses these are conditions. Real conditions. Do you feel this way about the women's movement? Pull your head out of the sand and stop trying to make things so simple, and realize that there is not ONE reason things are in the mess they are, there are many. Racism being one of them.

As a feminist... yes. I do.

Is there real sexism in this country still? Oh, hell yes.

Are women disadvantaged in some situations, and demeaned in others? Oh, yeah. All the time.

But making the perpetrators aware of that is only one part of the battle. You know what the other part is?

Women believing for themselves that they can do better, deserve better, and not only that, but that they are ALSO smart enough and strong enough to accept consequences of their freedoms and actions. They are not victims, and nor are they dependents. They are free and intelligent adults.

Because women don't really have an isolated culture to the extent black people do, the problems are a lot less extreme. But women owning their lives is a major, major part of bettering the lives of women. And women belittling not only themselves but also other women is a major part of what holds some of them back.

I have to admit it drives my frickin' crazy when I get into a debate with a person who's arguing about racism and they tell me I don't know what discrimination is. I get yelled at practically every time I leave the house. My health care has suffered because I'm a woman. I've been insulted and disowned by family -- female family, no less -- who don't think women should live how I live. Screw you and the horse your rode in on.

But that isn't going to stop me from showing up to work and demanding respect by the way I carry myself: like a free and intelligent adult.

And guess what?

I get it.

 

[Medusa]

There are no victims. There is no excuse whatsoever for people finding themselves in the situations they are in, except for themselves. Good grief, this is silly. How long are we going to blame something that happened 150 years ago for people being oppressed. Anybody can do anything they want, they just have to want to put the effort in, and no one does. It's too easy for people to expect the government to take care of them, and WHY try if they don't have to? I used to know a 45 year old white lady. She'd been living in public housing for 10 years, happily. She was relatively young, and healthy. She had no reason for being there, other than the fact that it was far easier to sleep 'til noon and cash that check from Uncle Sam every week, than to have to get up at 5 in the morning and hit a job every week. She had absolutely no intention of leaving. I asked her one day why she stayed there, and she said, "Why not?"

There are no victims. Everyone can do better for themselves, no matter what. They just have to want to. Problem is, too many people (white AND black) don't want to, and for that, they have no one to blame but themselves.

are you sure ?

 

[Middleground]

There are no victims. There is no excuse whatsoever for people finding themselves in the situations they are in, except for themselves. Good grief, this is silly. How long are we going to blame something that happened 150 years ago for people being oppressed.

Just 150 years? Heck, some countries are figithing about stuff that happened thousands of years ago.