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Don’t forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler [W:115]

Jack Hays said:
They certainly wanted to, but the final decision to go forward was not made until after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was signed.
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You really think they would of not invaded Poland if they didnt the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact signed? Afterall all they did was just break it anyways....
 
PeteEU said:
HAHAHA yes they finished the battle that way, but that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about the period around the time when the Germans switched from bombing the RAF air fields to bombing cities.. God you just love to avoid the topic eh?
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The RAF had more planes left than the Germans (and had shot down more German planes than those lost to Luftwaffe) when Germany gave up its efforts of winning air superiority, realizing that the quest was futile and would cripple the Luftwaffe further.

Only THEN did Luftwaffe resort to indiscriminate bombing. That happened mostly at night, became well known under the name Blitz and was strategically (if one wants to call it a strategy at all) of lesser importance and far lesser German effort than the actual Battle of Britain. Luftwaffe didn't dare to conduct it during daytime, Fighter command would have slaughtered them much as it did when they went for the airfields.
Of course the RAF finished the Battle of Britain with more planes than it started.. the factories were not being bombed any more so they could ramp up production...
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Factories weren't even bombed during the Battle of Britain. That additional endeavor would have surpassed German capacity.
Again read above.
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Indeed, do that.
Where the hell did I say "walked to victory"? Now you are making **** up in a vain attempt to hide your ignorance on the subject.
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To be fair, at least you're making no attempt to hide yours.
They had plenty of landing craft and they had a navy.
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yeah, Dutch barges to be towed and the high seas fleet running like rabbits in the most unlikely and totally inconsequential (to the channel) corners of the world.
With air superiority over the Channel then this navy could be defended easily.
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What effing navy?
Why do you think the RAF and Americans first priority before D-Day was to make sure that the Luftwaffe was defeated on the western front?
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They didn't have to do much, it was being defeated on the Eastern front (what was by then left of it).
No they would be facing the largest navy in Europe,and that navy would be blown out of the water because of the lack of air cover.
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By whom, respectively what? Y
ou seem to forget that the British navy mostly consisted of out dated large ships who were sitting ducks against air power.. or did the destruction of the Prince of Wales by the Japanese not tell you anything?
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What does that incident have to do with anything at all? The PoW and Repulse were sunk by land based Japanese torpedo bombers over a year later, the Luftwaffe didn't have any torpedo bombers at the planned time of invasion (Sea Lion). Apart from which it would be interesting to learn what sort of update would have made any vessel safe against such attacks at the time.
And at the same time the Uboats would have had a nice hunting ground in the narrow straights of the channel.
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You don't know much about the U-boat war do you? You don't even appear to know much about U-boats of the time.
Britain was days away from being defeated in 1940...
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Yeah, at Dunkirk, not later in the skies
and no amount of denial will ever change that. You were lucky and thank god for that, but it does not change the historical fact that the RAF and hence Britain were almost defeated by the Germans.
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Rubbish
Had it not been for one lost bomber group dropping its bombs where they were not suppose too.. the ending might have been very much different.
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This is getting gibberishy.
 
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TheDemSocialist said:
You really think they would of not invaded Poland if they didnt the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact signed? Afterall all they did was just break it anyways....
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Yeah but not until it was convenient.

Britain and France threatening intervention in what became "the war that never happened" was one thing (as Hitler rightly anticipated), the prospect of meeting Stalin in battle halfway thru Poland could well have made for reconsidering. Even where chances of beating the Red Army then were high, the lightning speed victory would have been, well, not lightning speed.

Meanwhile the Western flank was wide open.

Nope, Stalin joining into the sharing of the spoils game was decisive. It bought desearately necessary time for Hitler.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
You really think they would of not invaded Poland if they didnt the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact signed? Afterall all they did was just break it anyways....
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The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact ensured there would be no hostile Russian reaction to the German invasion of Poland. Indeed, the Russians joined in the aggression. Moreover, the Russians thereafter gave the Russians a secure eastern flank for nearly two years until the Germans turned on them.
 
Jack Hays said:
The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact ensured there would be no hostile Russian reaction to the German invasion of Poland. Indeed, the Russians joined in the aggression. Moreover, the Russians thereafter gave the Russians a secure eastern flank for nearly two years until the Germans turned on them.
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Ummm, and so what? The whole far western portion of the Soviet Union were weak...
 
Hitler was a bible thumping moralist compared to Stalin, lol...

So the world was "saved from Hitler"... does anyone think that Hitler could have exterminated more human beings than Stalin and Mao?? Stalin is good for at least 70 million dead, and Mao is good for 200 million.

Dig deep enough, and you'll find that the war was brought to into being for the benefit of Stalin and the expansion of global communism. Western elites have their fingerprints all over all of it - and of course, the people never learn.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
My comment was in regards to "Germany would of invaded the USSR no matter what"
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Sorry, my #209 contained a significant typo.

Moreover, the Russians thereafter gave the Russians a secure eastern flank for nearly two years until the Germans turned on them.

Should be:

Moreover, the Russians thereafter gave the Germans a secure eastern flank for nearly two years until the Germans turned on them.
 
Jack Hays said:
Sorry, my #209 contained a significant typo.

Moreover, the Russians thereafter gave the Russians a secure eastern flank for nearly two years until the Germans turned on them.

Should be:

Moreover, the Russians thereafter gave the Germans a secure eastern flank for nearly two years until the Germans turned on them.
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Ok, and still my point is so what? Its pretty clear Germany was going to invade Russia anyways.... Remember lebensraum?
 
Jack Hays said:
Stalin didn't believe it, right up to 22 June 1941. He was complicit in Nazi aggression.
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No he wasnt. The fall began almost immediately in 1940. So again, do you remember lebensraum? Remember in 1923 when Hitler wanted an anti-communist alliance to destroy Russia? Remember his calls to conquer all of Eastern Europe? Remember his calls to essentially use the Western Soviet Union (Ukraine, Belarus, etc) as essentially one giant plantation?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
No he wasnt. The fall began almost immediately in 1940. So again, do you remember lebensraum? Remember in 1923 when Hitler wanted an anti-communist alliance to destroy Russia? Remember his calls to conquer all of Eastern Europe? Remember his calls to essentially use the Western Soviet Union (Ukraine, Belarus, etc) as essentially one giant plantation?
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Oh, I don't dispute Hitler's war aims, but the point is Stalin did not believe that, and he was willing to be Hitler's accomplice.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
No he wasnt. The fall began almost immediately in 1940. So again, do you remember lebensraum? Remember in 1923 when Hitler wanted an anti-communist alliance to destroy Russia? Remember his calls to conquer all of Eastern Europe? Remember his calls to essentially use the Western Soviet Union (Ukraine, Belarus, etc) as essentially one giant plantation?
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The non-aggression pact between the Soviet Union and Germany gave the Germans the opportunity to turn all of their attention towards Western Europe. That's called complicity.
 
Jack Hays said:
Oh, I don't dispute Hitler's war aims, but the point is Stalin did not believe that, and he was willing to be Hitler's accomplice.
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So then you agree with my point? It doesnt really matter what Stalin did/believed, it was inevitable?
 
Wiggen said:
The non-aggression pact between the Soviet Union and Germany gave the Germans the opportunity to turn all of their attention towards Western Europe. That's called complicity.
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Germany threw the vast majority of troops at the Eastern Front rather than the Western front....
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World War 2
 
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