nogoodname said:
Its fine but i hope u understand that when people are mad they say things they don't mean. I really don't wish harm upon anyone but i truly disagree and i cant believe someone educated like you would allow to have people tortured for the fact that it might actuarially get a terrorist caught.Navy Pride said:
Caine said:
nogoodname said:
yes but this intelligence is false most likely. Your also torturing innocent people ot get them to talk which is wrong.Navy Pride said:
Navy Pride said:You even defended me...........I almost fainted.......
Caine said:
So you support torture or not? If it works sometimes then we should use torture on those who are Unlawful Combatants right? Let em talk and verify and if the info is bad then increase the pain... afterall the crime for Unlawful Combatant is death... so what is to lose?Vader said:
A. This whole "desire to survive" thing? Its a blatent exageration. Do you REALLY think a terrorist attack of the size of 9/11 is something to jump into a panic about destroying the entire country? Get real. This is absurd paranoia. That terrorist attack sucked, it was devastating, and it made us realize there is a problem. But torturing people for our "desire to survive" from a terrorist threat that is real, but not as big as people make it out to be. You can live in fear for death of a terrorist attack all you want. All you are doing is letting the terrorists win. The more they change America from the nation of the free and the nation that upheld high standards of human rights, when people in America start getting so scared they will let thier government do anything, that is when we have already lost, and the terrorists have already won. They envy our freedom. That is why they hate us. The more your paranoia allows you to let the government do whatever it wants because of your "desire to survive", the more the terrorists are winning.Topsez said:
That is great grand and wonderful... but what is the point???
You speak the truth. Although, I don't think it's because they "envy our freedom".
The only thing they understand is how far someone's nose is up Bush's butt!
um iraqis, afghans, alot of people.conserv.pat15 said:
Caine said:
Good for you, than you agree that it is an exageration to say we are "fighting for our very survival?" Cause, if we were fighting for our very survival, they wouldn't have let me out of the Army last August, and they would have a draft, and hillbillies with guns would be blasting radical islamics in thier backyard. THAT would be a fight for our very survival.Topsez said:
So, if they don't hate us because of our culture and freedom why do they hate us? You didn't give a reason, you gave a comparison. Saying "the only good American is a dead American" does not explain WHY THEY THINK that the only good American is a dead American. You'll have to do better than this.
You have explained your opinion on my statement, You haven't backed up WHY it is "silly liberal trash". It seems you backup your statements with incomplete arguments, or "name calling".
If you say so, But we never were fighting an enemy in uniform, and that was made clear at the beginning of the war, so I think there are some conflicts there that need to be resolved by people who KNOW the full details. But, like I said, torture is inhuman to anyone for any reason, No matter what. Yes, kill them, but do not torture them.
Actually, Chickens get killed by humans, not the other way around. And, you are giving them too much credit. You are obviously saying that America is unable to defend itself from attack unless it tortures people, which I find preposterous.
No, I said People living in reality know the desire to survive is not an exaggeration. We are in fact in a fight for our very survival. The enemy plans every day for a better way to destroy us… A chemical, biological or nuclear method would be used if available. Recent Bush speeches include statements made by terrorist… Living in fear is a waste of time. And, yes you will see all that you state above when the next attack that makes 9-11 look like a non event in history.Caine said:
OK, it goes like this… the radical Islamic warriors have a stiff on for anyone who doesn’t convert to Islam… in fact they have said the choice is do it or death. They don’t like the influence Western civilization has on their 13th century mentality of how the world should be. If you have been taking notes they kind of mirror the KKK, a very radical religious group… And, like the KKK the other “true Islamic” believers don’t protest against them just as the church didn’t protest against the KKK here in the south. Convert or die… remain quiet as they exterminate Israel because the offer to convert for them isn’t there… get it?
It is not childish, it is the law… the rules of war that bind us… we put our soldiers in uniform and insist on clear rules of engagement… they don’t… to lower to their level we would have to enlist American Iraqi’s put them in local garb and send them into the neighborhoods there to kill at will as they see fit for our victory… we don’t do that because it is against the law. Likewise, with international terrorist violate the same rules of war and the punishment is death according to the Geneva Convention we signed. “Some” of the signature state members of the GC signed a protocol in 1977 accepting terrorist as a warring faction deserving GC protections but America refused to sign this protocol… So, since we are fighting under the rules of war with GC restrictions WE agreed to it is illegal for any enemy of America to fight out of a clearly marked uniform and under the international law the penalty is death.
What we have here is a failure to communicate… I grew up on a farm… the species “chicken” routinely has an unmanaged mortality rate of 75% caused by chickens attacking chickens without provocation. Humans, on the other hand routinely, by nature establish laws and abide by morals inherent of do unto others as you would have them do to you. Islamic radicals and terrorist of any flavor fall into the animal category of “chicken” not human. We need to teach them the true pecking order (that’s where that term comes from, chickens pecking each other to death.)
Okay, then if we are in a fight for our very survival, why are we waiting until the next huge attack that we seem to "know" is going to come? Why don't we just drop nukes on everyone and take over the whole world? We are fighting for our very survival and all, right?Topsez said:
You completely misread my example. Just because they refuse to treat prisoners with dignity, does not mean we should lower ourselves to that level. I hear the argument all the time, NOBODY ELSE IS GOING TO DO IT! I don't care, we shouldn't degrade our stance on human treatment of people because other people do.
Are you talking about this war, started in 2003? Because I was there for the invasion, fought them in As Samawa and I never saw any uniforms, only all black muslim garb, and sometimes all white muslim garb, but no uniform insignia. Mostly fedayeen.