• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Does the Left want to revoke freedom of speech?

Does the Left want to revoke freedom of speech?

  • Total voters
    75
Let me guess, George Soros is behind it with an army of trolls from Switzerland. I will vote no. I argued with many left-wing members today so trying to keep a balance.

Is most likely paranoia via radio right-wing hosts in my opinion.

Good day neil.
 
neil said:
Consider:

-opposition by the Left to Elon Musk taking over Twitter
-the new Ministry of Truth courtesy of the DHS
-opposition by the Left to non-Leftist media outlets
Click to expand...
Opposition by the right in the form of Trump and his Stalinesque "enemies of the people" baloney. But I get it, the left is not allowed free speech to complain about what Musk might do. The government is not allowed to counter Russian propaganda.
 
neil said:
Consider:

-opposition by the Left to Elon Musk taking over Twitter
-the new Ministry of Truth courtesy of the DHS
-opposition by the Left to non-Leftist media outlets
Click to expand...

Does the Left want to revoke freedom of speech?​


No.

They want to "control" freedom of speech.

In other words...some get to have it, some don't. They'll decide who.
 
From what I know it is like this:

In the USA you may say that Hitler was a very fine person who only did good things and helped the Jews and that there were never ever any concentration camps etc etc
But you must NOT say "Eskimo" or "gypsy" - under punishment of social death.

OK?
 
The political left has always been hostile to free speech. The US allows more speech than any other country in the world, precisely because the US has never had a real left wing government in its entire history.
 
Mycroft said:

Does the Left want to revoke freedom of speech?​


No.

They want to "control" freedom of speech.

In other words...some get to have it, some don't. They'll decide who.
Click to expand...
I was thinking about structuring this thread to address what you're pointing out here, but I probably got a little lazy & figured I'd just keep it simple.
 
aociswundumho said:
The political left has always been hostile to free speech. The US allows more speech than any other country in the world, precisely because the US has never had a real left wing government in its entire history.
Click to expand...
What is a "real left wing government"? I think the US government has been on the Left and going farther to the left for the past 110 or so years.
 
You may also say that the burqa is a most wonderful symbol of freedom
and that all Catholics are pagan and satanic and no Christian.
That is OK.

But you must NOT say something like "American Indian".
You must say: FIRST NATION!
What is the adjective then: Firstnationan - or Firstnationish?
 
Some from today's illiberal left believe they should be the arbitrator for the information the public receives.

So I would vote "other" only because some from the left are believers of non-censorship and wouldn't partake in the above activity. They remain in my eyes liberal in thought and action. The rest of them are authoritarian busybodies who would love to be in control of thought.
 
aociswundumho said:
The political left has always been hostile to free speech. The US allows more speech than any other country in the world, precisely because the US has never had a real left wing government in its entire history.
Click to expand...
how about the NSA's record under George W Bush where the privacy of millions of Americans was breached? There was surveillance then not even the FSB could dream of.
 
trixare4kids said:
Some from today's illiberal left believe they should be the arbitrator for the information the public receives.

So I would vote "other" only because some from the left are believers of non-censorship and wouldn't partake in the above activity. They remain in my eyes liberal in thought and action. The rest of them are authoritarian busybodies who would love to be in control of thought.
Click to expand...
Do you equate liberal (and I don't mean "Liberal") with Leftist?
 
neil said:
Consider:

-opposition by the Left to Elon Musk taking over Twitter
-the new Ministry of Truth courtesy of the DHS
-opposition by the Left to non-Leftist media outlets
Click to expand...

You make three great points that I've taken into consideration when voting "other".

Thankfully, there still are some liberal thinkers from the left. I would imagine they are embarrassed by the opposition you've expressed above.
 
neil said:
Do you equate liberal (and I don't mean "Liberal") with Leftist?
Click to expand...

I think a liberal can still be a leftist and vice versa.
I equate non-liberals, or I prefer calling them illiberals if they want to do what you've mentioned in your O/P.
 
neil said:
Consider:

-opposition by the Left to Elon Musk taking over Twitter
-the new Ministry of Truth courtesy of the DHS
-opposition by the Left to non-Leftist media outlets
Click to expand...
I view most of that as fear-mongering by their opponents.
I'll be keeping an eye on the Disinformation Board or whatever it ends up being called though.
If they just counter disinformation, that could be a good thing, depending on how.

Edit: That last is the key part, really.

If we're talking "the disinformation board released a statement saying that X and Y claims by Russia are false, and here's why", then that's OK in my book.

But if they actually censor stuff somehow that's another thing.

Edit 2: If the former, then they're effectively just a government-funded fact checking organization, which means they're accountable to the elected officials.
 
Last edited:
As I have said before. The problem here lay in defining the risks to free speech either broadly or narrowly, and deciding which are tolerable threats and which are not.

There is mostly agreement about the first amendment itself across the board, and what the 'law' allows or doesn't. Its the nature, scope, and pervasiveness of other pressures on 'free speech' such as the role of social media, employers etc where the divisions come.

Some only worry about governmental 'consequences' already covered under the first amendment, and see no other coercive pressure by any other institution as corrosive, dangerous, or controlling discourse. Others are more concerned that the pressures to conform to standards of propriety, and popularity by non governmental actors or agents can be just as devastating and restricting of the free flow of controversial or new ideas as a government censorship board.
 
neil said:
What is a "real left wing government"? I think the US government has been on the Left and going farther to the left for the past 110 or so years.
Click to expand...

Surprisingly, you're not stuck working 12 hour days in a salt mine.
 
neil said:
Consider:

-opposition by the Left to Elon Musk taking over Twitter
-the new Ministry of Truth courtesy of the DHS
-opposition by the Left to non-Leftist media outlets
Click to expand...
1) The Twitter fiasco has zero to do with freedom of speech. Every time a right-winger brings up free speech and cancel culture, what they're really talking about is the ability to say whatever hateful shit or lies they want without wanting to suffer consequences. It's about imagined victimhood, not free speech.

2) While concerning, the same people who oppose the "mIniStrY oF trUtH" now, would have agreed with HUAC back in the 1950s. And the same people are trying to control what teachers can and can't teach about race in gender in schools. The right wing is full of bad faith, hypocritical actors and y'all have proven it time and again.

3) Right-wing media outlets are opposed cause they ****ing lie and make shit up. A Fox News viewer is actually LESS informed that someone who watches no news at all. Where was all this whining when Trump was talking about physically beating up the press? Or when Greg Gianforte physically bodyslammed a reporter?
 
Last edited:
neil said:
What is a "real left wing government"? I think the US government has been on the Left and going farther to the left for the past 110 or so years.
Click to expand...

I mean typical left wing European governments. They are all heavily paternalistic, which is why they prohibit gun ownership, enact big welfare states, etc.

Speech is an issue where leftists believe that the state (the parent) should control what the people (the children) are allowed to say or hear.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom